1 Jun 2009, 12:19 am
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Monster of Peladon 1:
There ain’t much love for the Monster of Peladon.
Whilst never exactly one of the stories obviously regarded as a turkey, it’s hard not to feel that it remains far from the most liked of tales. Often held up as dull, it probably manages to avoid wider distaste by not being the grand operatic folly of the major series disasters, merely being considered flat.
But I dunno – I’ve always been rather fond of it. Not sure why. I don’t think I’ve watched it since becoming aware of its less than stellar reputation, something I’ve never quite got, and am wondering if the rewatch will crystalise why I’m fond of this somewhat dismissed tale.
Certainly, I think that as first episodes go, this one is rather enjoyable. Obviously it helps that we’re comparatively familiar with the planet, but even with that as a given the story does kick off at remarkably high gear. There are loads of Doctor Who stories where there are armed rebellions (either successful or merely attempted) but I can’t think of any other where they take place in the first episode. And bear in mind that we also have three people killed off by a suspected apparition, the Doctor suspected of treason, and a lovely scene with Sarah accidentally hurting an alien’s feelings, so you’ll see that there’s a lot going on.
Now this is all with one proviso – the general tone of the piece is a touch unsophisticated. Everyone talks in the same sort of cod-sci-fi speak, for example. In comparison to the witty sophistication of the Time Warrior, say, or the quasi realism of Invasion of the Dinosaurs it comes off badly (although it has more colour than Death to the Daleks). But I remain unconvinced that this is automatically a problem. As long as it is committed to, as it is here, there’s an enjoyable pulpy quality to it. And yes, the wigs (especially those of the miners) are a little odd… but as far as a shorthand for a different species they’re neat enough. Indeed, the differing stripes per caste is a neat little touch. In many ways, I prefer this as a technique to any number of random prostetics (for some reason I find the stripey hair more convincing than any number of Trekkian nose ridges or odd ears…perhaps because it’s more about implying cultural differences than tying everything down to a sole physical difference). And, much as he’s mocked, I even like Vega Nexos!
So, not the classiest production in the show’s history, but if you’re in the mood for a rollicking bit of hokum, this is as solid as first episodes get.
And why no MoP avatars, eh? Hmm?
Dorney
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#829 4 Jun 2009, 4:21 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Dorney's new mission: to finish his day-by-day (laughter) reviews for the Pertwee era before the forum closes down! Can he do it?
I'm a fan of Monster of Peladon, like you for reasons I can't quite fathom. It's a fun story well told and it's got lots of fun aliens. Your comment that unsophisticated doesn't automatically mean bad is spot - so long as everybody's putting their all into it then it's going to be far more enjoyable than something that's perhaps a lot more literate but being performed by actors who aren't fussed. And Donald Gee's Eckersley is excellent. Looks a lot like a young Tom Baker in many of his close-ups.
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#830 4 Jun 2009, 11:33 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Are these reviews going to be archived or are they on a blog somewhere?
They're fascinating and I'd hate to lose them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#831 6 Jun 2009, 10:51 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Are these reviews going to be archived or are they on a blog somewhere?
They're fascinating and I'd hate to lose them.
There should be a link to the 'World of Dorney' blog in my sig. I'm certainly going to continue the work there. Going to be frantically uploading the material over the next month or so.
And, Bus, yep, I'm desperately trying to complete Pertwee before the forum closes. Annoyingly, I've had a lot of things to work on (which is a good thing in a way) and haven't quite had the time, but most of that gets sorted in the next week or so, and I should be able to get through the remaining eleven by then.
Of course, the problem there is it almost gives me a ready made reason to stop... not least because I'm going to have to take a break before going on to Tom Baker for various reasons.
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#832 7 Jun 2009, 4:28 am
hcd199
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Hobart, Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
There should be a link to the 'World of Dorney' blog in my sig. I'm certainly going to continue the work there. Going to be frantically uploading the material over the next month or so.
And, Bus, yep, I'm desperately trying to complete Pertwee before the forum closes. Annoyingly, I've had a lot of things to work on (which is a good thing in a way) and haven't quite had the time, but most of that gets sorted in the next week or so, and I should be able to get through the remaining eleven by then.
Of course, the problem there is it almost gives me a ready made reason to stop... not least because I'm going to have to take a break before going on to Tom Baker for various reasons.
What forum will you be moving to (if any)?
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So we open up a quarrel, 'tween the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future, it's the bitterness that lasts
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#833 9 Jun 2009, 3:12 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Monster of Peladon 2:
Two episodes in and this story is still moving at a rapid pace. The attempted coup of the first episode is turning into full scale armed revolution. The story continues to develop and intrigue. You begin to wonder if this momentum can be sustained for another four episodes. Where exactly can the plot go from here?
Well, one of the advantages is that what appears to be the central thread of the story (the terrorising and manipulation of the mining forces) is relegated to almost a sub-plot with the miner’s reaction to it leading the script. And there remains carefully layering of this main plot in the background, adding levels of intrigue - Sarah’s discovery of the supposedly unoccupied mining facility, for example, now complete with mysterious figure inside, keeps the mystery going under the surface as the Doctor investigates. And this means we do meet with a fairly action packed episode. OK, on a few occasions it has to pad it out a touch, but for the most part this shows how you fill a long script – you could argue that this story has really committed to its padding, if you like, as that’s essentially what it is. The main story can’t really take up too much time, so let’s fill in the missing minutes in as large scale a manner as possible. And it does fairly simply and quickly establish the political forces at work on Peladon.
However, even as it does that, it does become fairly obvious that there are a few elements sacrificed. I spoke last time about the story being basically unsophisticated, and whilst I’m not totally against that, it does mean that there are a few blunt edges here and there. Most of the guest cast aren’t really characters, as such, as opposed to plot functions. Eckersley is probably an exception – he’s hard to pin down as any distinct type – and possibly Alpha Centauri too… but everyone else appears almost to have had one word character descriptions given to them. Gebek is noble, for example. Ettis, reckless. Again, the story almost gets away with it when they allow the story to move naturally (if nothing’s deep, shallow characters aren’t a major issue), but when they characters are so determinedly one note that they retain that position in the face of all logic or sense, you can feel the plot creaking desperately. The big point this becomes obvious in episode two is when Ortron (‘distrustful’) decides that Sarah-Jane is a traitor against all evidence, presumably for no better reason than to facilitate a cliffhanger. The only way this could happen is if Ortron isn’t actually a character at all, but an attitude, nothing that resembles a real person at all.
It’s a shame, because when it’s on form the story is a delightful romp. Albeit one painted in broad strokes.
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#834 9 Jun 2009, 3:13 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcd199
What forum will you be moving to (if any)?
Gallifrey Base looks plausible, but I haven't really decided yet.
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#835 11 Jun 2009, 11:50 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Monster of Peladon 3:
Well, that’s a shame.
A blatant time marking episode, part three is the kind of episode where no-one gets around to doing very much at all, and takes an awful lot of time doing it.
Actually, that’s not exactly true. Because some of the time things happen a little too quickly – the Doctor and Sarah resolving the cliffhanger is as swift as can be (and rather underlines its arbitrary nature), and then we have the faintly ridiculous sequence of Ortron confining the Doctor to the citadel for about ten seconds (yes, the Doctor’s attempted escape is a perfectly natural thing for him to do, if remarkably stupid, but given that it’s a trap by Ortron that is sprung almost immediately, there’s clearly no reason to bother with it). I am left with the inescapable conclusion that I actually prefer long scenes of padding that actually pretend to be filling the time somehow as opposed to padding that just consists of a few random events being flung at the screen.
You see, this is the problem with the first two episodes being as pacey as they are. The rebel miners are armed. But the script can’t take that anywhere, so they mainly stand around doing nothing. There’s a set piece with the sonic lance, sure, but it is, again, slightly arbitrary. Eckersley’s only remembered it about a minute ago. That’s the thing with this episode. It’s all about people not quite managing to do anything. The Doctor is sent to fetch Gebek for the Queen, but then gets confined to the citadel. Tries again, gets put in a cell. Gets released by Gebek, but then never actually gets him to her, heading off somewhere completely different. Equally, Sarah is consistently being told to stop what she’s doing and go somewhere else. Eckersley remembers the sonic lance and fails to remove it. We’ve had all the set up, but the story can’t really move forward until the Ice Warriors turn up. (Though when they do, in a relatively good cliffhanger, it’s in a context that means they might as well hold up a sign saying ‘we’re the surprise villains’. It’s almost as bad as the slow close up on Eckersley at the end of the scene just before it – the ‘Palpatine at the end of Phantom Menace’ giveaway shot - that Donald Gee at least knows blows everything and so underplays to the degree you might not actually have the plot ruined for you by odd direction).
The only bit of the episode that really plays against this water-treading mentality is the, somewhat infamous, women’s lib scene. Now, perhaps surprisingly, I don’t really mind this bit of the story. Yes, it’s rather cringeworthy and patronising from our modern perspective (though, at least, not as morally suspect as similar scenes in 21st century Who, like ‘The Unquiet Dead’), but its heart is in the right place and, at least, it demonstrates an interest in using character to advance plot – which in the face of Ortron’s resolute determination to retain the depth of a rizzler is probably a good thing.
So, a fairly flat episode, but the story still has enough of a general air of entertainment to hold on.
Dorney
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#836 15 Jun 2009, 11:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Monster of Peladon 4:
It’s something of a relief ten minutes into this episode when the Doctor basically points the finger at Azaxyr as a self-interest and manipulative sort who’s clearly up to no good (and all but blames him for the Aggedor manifestations). On paper it sounds like it’s a massive blowing of the plot but on screen, in keeping with the general ‘one-word characterisation’ of the script, Azaxyr is such a dyed in the wool psychotic nutcase from the get go (and his lieutenants so obviously the hiders in the refinery) that your main worry is whether they’re going to spend another couple of episodes thinking we haven’t figured it out.
Having said all that, the arrival of the Ice Warriors does provide a welcome kick in the backside for the story, through Azaxyr’s villainy in particular. Barging in, threatening to kill people at the drop of hat (he decides to kill the Doctor for no reason other than pretty much just to be on the safe side) adds a certain demented energy to proceedings, raising the stakes and making the petty little squabbles of the previous episodes look a little flat in comparison. The story is no longer union negotiation, it’s an invasion story (albeit a back-door invasion) and immense fun for that. And beyond that, it helps in other areas - the prescence of the Ice Warriors make Ortron and Gebek appear to have actual personalities. They suddenly seem more layered and complicated when there’s another threat. In other words, this is a revitalised episode that almost feels like a different story entirely.
It is a nice touch that the main plotline of the preceding few episodes – Ettis and his revolution - isn’t dropped immediately, making this two related four parters that cross over rather than two three parters. There is a faint problem with the Ettis storyline though. Halfway through, Roy Evans’ second miner in less than a year says Ettis has gone mad, and it seems to me that actor Ralph Watson has taken this way too literally. Ettis is now genuinely a loon, all wide goggling eyes and consistently at the point of demented laughter… but it doesn’t really make sense on a plot level. Why has he gone mad? Nothing much has happened to him, nothing to make him snap. Surely it’s more likely that the script intends that he’s just lost all sense of perspective – more psychosis than dementia, if you like. Watson’s performance is fun, but it doesn’t really connect to anything – although it does, perhaps, explain one of the more baffling elements of the story – untrained fighter Ettis being able to beat the crap out of the Doctor for the sake of a cliffhanger.
PS: For those of you interested - the 'World of Dorney' blog in my signature now has a complete(ish) set of Hartnell reviews.
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#837 27 Jun 2009, 3:58 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Monster of Peladon 5:
There’s a camera in the refinery. With full sound.
Just ponder that for a second. A camera in the refinery, the room from which Eckersley and Azaxyr are contriving and operating their entire plan, the image from which can be found quite easily just by scrolling through the options on a screen in an easily accessible room elsewhere, by anyone. Did neither of them think, just for a second ‘hold on – this is a bit friggin’ stupid, isn’t it? We’re bound to get caught!’
Other than that, it’s not a bad episode. One of the major criticisms of this story is that it has pretty much the same plot as Curse. Now, I’m sorry, but I think that’s an over-simplification. It probably fits if you make your decision on the story an episode or two in, but the further it gets in the more it drifts away. In many ways it acts as a subversion of the previous story, setting itself up with all the same tropes and then undermining them (which is possibly a pun, but not a very good one, so be assured it’s not deliberate).
The big clue to this is Ortron. Initially very much cut from the same cloth as Hepesh, if the story followed it’s predecessor’s pattern, he would turn out to be the bad guy behind everything. But for all his bluster, the moment a major league problem turns up he shifts onto the side of right and joins in with his previous foes, the miners. And, in some ways, his distrust of the Federation and the mining is proved perfectly correct – it causes more trouble to Peladon than it appears to solve.
Now, there’s a degree to which this means the story is in two halfs, one of which is pretty much redundant the moment the Ice Warriors turn up. Certainly, Ortron and Ettis – the main driving forces of the revolution plot – are killed off as swiftly as possible. In Ortron’s case this is a particular shock (again, the joy of rewatching these stories so rarely is that twists can still surprise you), but it does mean that that whole thread isn’t really going to get resolved. The whole of the first three episodes are a maguffin, a smokescreen to disguise the real plot – they’re all about getting the Ice Warriors into the thing.
Still, it’s turning into a good fun, and somewhat different, alien invasion story, with the rarity of seeing an occupying force (and an ostensibly peaceful one!). In deed, the whole thing does seem more than a little relevant to modern times more than once…
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#838 5 Jul 2009, 11:20 am
hcd199
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Hobart, Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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Not too long 'til no more posts, Dorney - think you can do seven episodes in one day?
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Tuesday, 28 July 2009
Death to the Daleks
1 Apr 2009, 8:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 1:
Whilst I stand by my opinions in the Day of the Dalek review that holding off the monster til the cliffhanger (despite titular prescence) is not the massive act of idiocy fandom tends to assume it is, there are problems with this approach, and Death to the Daleks demonstrates one of them. Namely that you'd better be certain you've got enough plot to fill in the story before you get there.
Death to the Daleks emphatically doesn’t. And that’s a shame, because there’s a lot of potential here. The initial hook of the episode is the TARDIS losing power, which is unnerving enough to be worthwhile. But because that is, by definition, a plot about something not actually doing anything, the absence of action, then it won’t really cover that much time. And the story as a whole just seems to be unsure of what to occupy itself with.
Take the opening sequence. Man staggers along. Gets hit in chest by spear. Dies. Even written down in that bland way I’m still not managing to communicate the sheer underwhelming limpness of the sequence. It’s like everyone involved knows this is just a by the numbers way of trying to kick off the story with a bit of action. It’s all so desperately half-hearted. There’s no build up, no tension. Just an event.
And the entire story is like that. The first fifteen minutes almost entirely consists of the Doctor and Sarah wandering around Exillon having the crap kicked out of them by, or kicking the crap out of, a few faceless savages. And lots of walking.
Now, it livens up in the last ten with the appearance of the Earth expedition force, all of whom have been selected to conform to a stock stereotype rather than for any real use on the mission. OK, that’s a touch unfair, because at least they offer a bit of life. But ultimately they’re nothing we haven’t seen before.
No, for that, we have to wait for the Exillon city.
The Exillon city sequences are the exact opposite of the opening. They’re superb. The incongruous oddness of the building, especially given the generic quarry it’s placed in, give it an eerie and unsettling quality. And that revitalises the production. The sequences around the city are the exact opposite of the opening sting of this episode. Whereas the generic nature of that led to a clear lack of interest on the director’s part, you can almost see his ears pricking up when he hears about this sequence. Everything about it is inventive and original, combining beautiful sound and vision with the darker warnings of the Earth crew. Hopefully the remaining three episodes will pull this way.
Though given the heinous mis-editing of the cliffhanger, giving away its own resolution, I’m not convinced.
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#810 2 Apr 2009, 3:08 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The thought crossed my mind. The problem is that I'm not sure there's much I can do about it. The discussion and debate have always been an important part of the thread (and in some cases directly influenced subsequent reviews), so they're hard to remove. But at the same time, I'm not sure it's possible to ask everybody directly.
I suppose I can easily edit something out if someone objects.
I don't object, and it's not like this forum or its predecessor is copyright or anything!
If I didn't want comments attributed to me in public, why on earth would I post them on an internet forum? Same appies to everyone.
Publish and be damned!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#811 8 Apr 2009, 11:59 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 2:
There’s something really frustrating about this story. It seems close to doing something really interesting, and yet never quite succeeds in pulling it off.
For example – the notion of the Daleks losing their firepower is a genuinely novel idea (ok, it does necessitate a little delicate skipping around the problem of how they’re still able to move, but at least they try). How will these dangerous and powerful creatures cope when they have that power removed? How will the fare collaborating with their enemies? It’s an intriguing prospect that sets up several potential avenues worth exploring…
But then it doesn’t do anything with them. The Dalek’s emasculation lasts all of about ten minutes. As soon as it can, the story gives them alternate weaponary. It’s a definite wasted opportunity, meaning one of the most original ideas this story had is frittered away on a cliffhanger resolution, and nothing more. Indeed, there’s no effort to carry it through – why, exactly, are the humans still treated as equals by the Daleks even after they’ve got ther firepower back?
Equally, last episode’s most promising element – the Exillon city – is barely even mentioned this time around, as we end up spending most of our time hanging around a fairly standard sacrifice chamber, filling in time again.
It’s pretty much standard for this episode. John Abineri is killed off, then almost instantly replaced with another commanding officer type (who’ve we never really know or develop any interest in) just to die as well. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to have only had Abineri mortally wounded?
And it’s still so frustrating because the story constantly skims close to genuine interest. Galloway’s deliberate mishearing of his commander’s dying wish is a great moment (although it would be better if the character wasn’t so one-note). And the Dalek who explodes after Exillon attack gets one of his species best deaths.
But it’s all just so lacklustre. There’s no real energy in the direction. Which is a shame because this has all the potential to be a good fun – if pulpy – space romp. But it isn’t quite committing enough to that.
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#812 10 Apr 2009, 3:33 pm
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I don't object, and it's not like this forum or its predecessor is copyright or anything!
If I didn't want comments attributed to me in public, why on earth would I post them on an internet forum? Same appies to everyone.
Publish and be damned!
What he said.
I haven't posted here in quite a while, but I'm still reading and enjoying this thread! You reviews are always insightful, Dorney, and even when I don't agree with your assessment of a story they always make me think about it in a new light. I think the blog is a great idea, and if anyone objects, they can always ask you to remove their comments.
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Fear Me, for I am Quaadzelaan Xipuloxx! All hail Xipuloxx the Unsound!
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Of course I'm entirely serious. I teach History.
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#813 11 Apr 2009, 12:51 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 3:
Sometimes an episode has something in it so famous you can’t help but mention it up front. A classic character, a great scene, an iconic image. And then some just have the most notoriously crap cliffhanger of all time. Yes, if there’s something that people tend to associate this story with, more often than not it’s the Doctor and Bellal reacting to a patterned floor. But let’s think about this a moment. Yes, it’s a laughably bad cliffhanger, but it’s important to notice what it tells us about the story, and its problems.
When I first saw this story this bit wasn’t a problem. It was the edited VHS release, so the precise cliffhanger locations were impossible to determine. But, when I didn’t know, I’d always take a guess, based around careful watching of the clock and guesswork. And, rather predictably I guessed the moment when the Daleks glide around the corner of the city and start firing at the spot where the Doctor previously stood. It’s a good guess, as were it not for the lack of material in the third episode, that was the scripted point.
But seen in context, there’s a full five minutes left to run. And that’s what’s interesting. The episode has to lift five minutes from the next episode and fill out it’s length, but unlike similar botch jobs (such as Planet of the Spiders 5/6), there’s no need to re-edit the cliffhanger reprise, or take it to absurd length. Episode four still runs to length without those five minutes.
When your final episode is so long that its offcuts can be used to pad out another episode without any trouble, when the earlier episodes aren’t full, doesn’t that suggest your saving too much up? That’s the main problem with this story so far. Lots of interesting ideas, but they’re left too late to be dealt with. Only now do we meet Bellal and get some exposition on the city (in one great big unashamed info-dump), for example, and seem to be moving on to something intriguing. Couldn’t this have come in a bit earlier? Too much of the story so far has been standard issue Dalek serial – slaves, shooting, threats, drilling, etc. This is the stuff that’s unique to this story, this is the element you should be focusing on.
But at the same time, there’s another problem. Whilst the city storyline is intriguing, it really isn’t marrying all that well with the Dalek plot. It’s like the Doctor is in a separate storyline. OK, there are efforts to tie it all together, but it’s clearly less than the sum of its parts.
Loads of weird little rubbish bits in this episode, btw. I don’t mean the violent root (which I like for the sound effect alone). More like the way that the logic test that’s supposed to have foiled a good three or four skeletons in the city is a simple map out of a child’s puzzle book. And Pertwee’s ‘Palpable hit’ stuff is pretentious and annoying.
Still, at least you still get the cliffhanger to laugh at.
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#814 14 Apr 2009, 12:01 pm
stanmore
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Birmingham
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Re: Day by Day
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So, essentially, you disagree with the idea in The DisContinuity Guide that there's too much plot in this story rather than too little?
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#815 15 Apr 2009, 2:23 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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I've always found the concerns over stories' plot (or lack of) to be rather pointless, anyway. Doctor Who is a half-hour fun romp for all the family, half of which are too young or too hip to bother with plots and want other things - action, scares, character, cool designs and concepts, witty dialogue, even to learn something new ... why does plot always hog the limelight? Is it a fan thing?
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Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#816 15 Apr 2009, 5:36 pm
Pete Lack
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Re: Day by Day
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Oh, I've always had something of a soft spot for 'Death' as it was my first VHS, and like Dorney, I viewed it as an edited 'movie' version. Unlike Dorney, I have never seen the original episodic version, so I have no real problems with the cliffhangers; in fact the first time I saw the 'floor of doom' was on the Trial DVD's cliffhangers docu...
My god, I even like Carey Blyton's saxophone score, which also gets a fair bit of stick. Takes all sorts hey?
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Phew, FIVE specials after all. Would you Adam and Eve it?
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#817 19 Apr 2009, 12:20 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanmore
So, essentially, you disagree with the idea in The DisContinuity Guide that there's too much plot in this story rather than too little?
Not exactly. I think there probably are too many interesting ideas in the story to explore in the time... as a result they all get short shrift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I've always found the concerns over stories' plot (or lack of) to be rather pointless, anyway. Doctor Who is a half-hour fun romp for all the family, half of which are too young or too hip to bother with plots and want other things - action, scares, character, cool designs and concepts, witty dialogue, even to learn something new ... why does plot always hog the limelight? Is it a fan thing?
I think it's down to individual taste. Personally, I think that all of the things you mention, whilst important, are usually improved when attached to a storyline that actually makes sense, or has a bit of drive. Humour is always at its funniest when there is something at stake, for example. In deed, I think that whilst, yes, half the audience probably don't get the plots (I struggle to think of what I made of Kinda as a child), there has to be something for everyone in the audience - it is a family show after all. And a rollicking story helps.
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#818 24 Apr 2009, 12:39 pm
Raveen
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Too much of the story so far has been standard issue Dalek serial – slaves, shooting, threats, drilling, etc.
Is this actually such a crime? For us as fans yes, because we've seen The Daleks, Dalek Invasion of Earth, Planet of the Daleks and all the other serials that tread much the same ground relatively recently. For the average viewer in Nineteen Seventy Whatever is was it's not going to seem like a rehash of past stories because they haven't seen or don't remember those stories. Ok so this argument falls down a bit becasue Planet was only a year ago but surely that story at least can be excused it's Daleks Greatest Hits status because the hits were so long ago?
It's the logic puzzles that really fail. Ok so the non-matching symbols works becasue we're never shown which one doesn't match so we can assume that the Doctor was very clever to work it out. The maze is much harder to justify. Ok it's something that kids can understand and relate to, but it's tricky to believe that nobody got past it (and we can assume that nobody did becuase the floor of death has no skeletons in evidence).
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#819 24 Apr 2009, 6:28 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raveen
Is this actually such a crime? For us as fans yes, because we've seen The Daleks, Dalek Invasion of Earth, Planet of the Daleks and all the other serials that tread much the same ground relatively recently. For the average viewer in Nineteen Seventy Whatever is was it's not going to seem like a rehash of past stories because they haven't seen or don't remember those stories. Ok so this argument falls down a bit becasue Planet was only a year ago but surely that story at least can be excused it's Daleks Greatest Hits status because the hits were so long ago?
I dunno - there's a degree to which that's right... but it's hard to put yourself in the mind of those who aren't regular watchers. Maybe they have clearer memories than we think.
Incidentally, part four's review will be up soon. I've been working on it for over a week, just been a bit busy!
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#820 1 May 2009, 12:14 pm
Richard2801
Fluffy Elephant
London
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Re: Day by Day
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For some reason I'd not caught up with this for a while - missing my chance to disagree with you markedly over Invasion of the Dinosaurs, I think! - but, sadly, you're spot-on with Death To the Daleks. I can never quite understand Michael E Briant's direction; in interviews and indeed in person he comes across as lively and committed, and on several stories he directs like that, too. At other times, it seems like someone utterly disinterested is saying 'yeah, whatever'. The script's so listless, too, that I can see how he'd have found it difficult to whip up enthusiasm, but still...
Anyway, I'm following your blog (excellent idea) now, so no doubt I'll see the whole lot come up eventually, which is exciting. I've now got as far as, er, The Daleks on my own 'do the lot' blog, which suggests I've cut the time it'll take me to complete it from a little under 500 years to not much over 200. Woo hoo!
(Alex, borrowing Richard. Richard writes his blog's Who reviews far more regularly)
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#821 3 May 2009, 2:13 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 4:
I’m not sure how I can really finish off this review without simply reusing a phrase from the episode 3 review – ‘less than the sum of its parts’. If there’s a phrase that sums Death to the Daleks, it’s that.
I’ve read that a lot of the story ideas here come from either Dicks or Holmes working behind the scenes, and that makes a lot of sense, frankly. Not because Nation’s incapable of coming up with intriguing concepts (he clearly is), but because the story is chock full of elements that never quite fit together. Particularly, the Daleks and their miracle mineral appear to be in a different story to the Exillon city. Notice how the central issue of the story – the power drain – is actually resolved twice as the natural conclusion to two separate threads.
In deed, if you think of it that way, there’s pretty much two separate stories going on here. One starring the Doctor and about the city, one about the Dalek’s battle of wills with the humans – and they only really intersect for one episode (two). The Doctor never really gets much dealings with the Daleks after that episode – mainly hanging around out of the way whilst the City deals with them – and their threat is resolved by Galloway rather than him. At times it feels like a backdoor pilot for a Dalek TV show.
And this approach ends up leaving them both a bit short changed. Whiltst the ‘meh’ quality of the Dalek plot isn’t all that disappointing, the Doctor’s thread is far more disappointing as it’s got so much more to play with. There’s never any real sense of what to do with this super-powered city, beautiful and haunting as it undeniably is (the death of the city at the end is really rather disturbing). Having a sequence of Crystal Maze traps smacks of desperation, especially when the logic for it is so fuzzy – only allow the smartest people into your brain, possibly to be made servants, though why you need servants at all, let alone smart ones, when you’ve been surviving perfectly well for hundreds of years is beyond me. Yes, the story takes loads of interesting ideas, but just doesn’t have the time or the interest into developing them into a proper solid story. Strong concepts – but no idea what to do with them.
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#822 3 May 2009, 3:38 pm
Gravitational Pull
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Particularly, the Daleks and their miracle mineral appear to be in a different story to the Exillon city. Notice how the central issue of the story – the power drain – is actually resolved twice as the natural conclusion to two separate threads.
Wow, I'd never actually noticed despite the fact (now that someone mentions it) it is a bit blatant.
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#823 15 May 2009, 1:14 am
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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I was watching the "Frighten Factor" documentary on the Deadly Assassin DVD tonight, and up pops a "John Dorney, Writer" as one of the talking heads ...
... is that you, Dorney?
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#824 15 May 2009, 11:05 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
I was watching the "Frighten Factor" documentary on the Deadly Assassin DVD tonight, and up pops a "John Dorney, Writer" as one of the talking heads ...
... is that you, Dorney?
Er, yeah...
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#825 15 May 2009, 3:14 pm
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Cool! Congratulaions on your moment of fame, then! Because clearly there is no greater fame than appearing as a talking head on a Doctor Who DVD.
I hadn't realised you were a writer as well as an actor (you are an actor, right? I'm not going mad?), so I wasn't sure if it was you...
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#826 15 May 2009, 4:08 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
Cool! Congratulaions on your moment of fame, then! Because clearly there is no greater fame than appearing as a talking head on a Doctor Who DVD.
I hadn't realised you were a writer as well as an actor (you are an actor, right? I'm not going mad?), so I wasn't sure if it was you...
Hey, only did it for the freebie. Technically it's my second dvd mention (having been mentioned, although not by name) for a fanzine article I wrote in the Seeds of Death commentary (a series of articles about running down corridors that was, I cannot emphasise enough, meant to be a joke...).
But yes, write and act a bit. See my sig for some of my written material (plug plug).
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#827 15 May 2009, 6:43 pm
Mighty Chicken Man
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Hey, only did it for the freebie. Technically it's my second dvd mention (having been mentioned, although not by name) for a fanzine article I wrote in the Seeds of Death commentary (a series of articles about running down corridors that was, I cannot emphasise enough, meant to be a joke...).
But yes, write and act a bit. See my sig for some of my written material (plug plug).
i didn't think there were 2 dorneys! good to see you on it
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 1:
Whilst I stand by my opinions in the Day of the Dalek review that holding off the monster til the cliffhanger (despite titular prescence) is not the massive act of idiocy fandom tends to assume it is, there are problems with this approach, and Death to the Daleks demonstrates one of them. Namely that you'd better be certain you've got enough plot to fill in the story before you get there.
Death to the Daleks emphatically doesn’t. And that’s a shame, because there’s a lot of potential here. The initial hook of the episode is the TARDIS losing power, which is unnerving enough to be worthwhile. But because that is, by definition, a plot about something not actually doing anything, the absence of action, then it won’t really cover that much time. And the story as a whole just seems to be unsure of what to occupy itself with.
Take the opening sequence. Man staggers along. Gets hit in chest by spear. Dies. Even written down in that bland way I’m still not managing to communicate the sheer underwhelming limpness of the sequence. It’s like everyone involved knows this is just a by the numbers way of trying to kick off the story with a bit of action. It’s all so desperately half-hearted. There’s no build up, no tension. Just an event.
And the entire story is like that. The first fifteen minutes almost entirely consists of the Doctor and Sarah wandering around Exillon having the crap kicked out of them by, or kicking the crap out of, a few faceless savages. And lots of walking.
Now, it livens up in the last ten with the appearance of the Earth expedition force, all of whom have been selected to conform to a stock stereotype rather than for any real use on the mission. OK, that’s a touch unfair, because at least they offer a bit of life. But ultimately they’re nothing we haven’t seen before.
No, for that, we have to wait for the Exillon city.
The Exillon city sequences are the exact opposite of the opening. They’re superb. The incongruous oddness of the building, especially given the generic quarry it’s placed in, give it an eerie and unsettling quality. And that revitalises the production. The sequences around the city are the exact opposite of the opening sting of this episode. Whereas the generic nature of that led to a clear lack of interest on the director’s part, you can almost see his ears pricking up when he hears about this sequence. Everything about it is inventive and original, combining beautiful sound and vision with the darker warnings of the Earth crew. Hopefully the remaining three episodes will pull this way.
Though given the heinous mis-editing of the cliffhanger, giving away its own resolution, I’m not convinced.
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#810 2 Apr 2009, 3:08 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The thought crossed my mind. The problem is that I'm not sure there's much I can do about it. The discussion and debate have always been an important part of the thread (and in some cases directly influenced subsequent reviews), so they're hard to remove. But at the same time, I'm not sure it's possible to ask everybody directly.
I suppose I can easily edit something out if someone objects.
I don't object, and it's not like this forum or its predecessor is copyright or anything!
If I didn't want comments attributed to me in public, why on earth would I post them on an internet forum? Same appies to everyone.
Publish and be damned!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#811 8 Apr 2009, 11:59 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 2:
There’s something really frustrating about this story. It seems close to doing something really interesting, and yet never quite succeeds in pulling it off.
For example – the notion of the Daleks losing their firepower is a genuinely novel idea (ok, it does necessitate a little delicate skipping around the problem of how they’re still able to move, but at least they try). How will these dangerous and powerful creatures cope when they have that power removed? How will the fare collaborating with their enemies? It’s an intriguing prospect that sets up several potential avenues worth exploring…
But then it doesn’t do anything with them. The Dalek’s emasculation lasts all of about ten minutes. As soon as it can, the story gives them alternate weaponary. It’s a definite wasted opportunity, meaning one of the most original ideas this story had is frittered away on a cliffhanger resolution, and nothing more. Indeed, there’s no effort to carry it through – why, exactly, are the humans still treated as equals by the Daleks even after they’ve got ther firepower back?
Equally, last episode’s most promising element – the Exillon city – is barely even mentioned this time around, as we end up spending most of our time hanging around a fairly standard sacrifice chamber, filling in time again.
It’s pretty much standard for this episode. John Abineri is killed off, then almost instantly replaced with another commanding officer type (who’ve we never really know or develop any interest in) just to die as well. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to have only had Abineri mortally wounded?
And it’s still so frustrating because the story constantly skims close to genuine interest. Galloway’s deliberate mishearing of his commander’s dying wish is a great moment (although it would be better if the character wasn’t so one-note). And the Dalek who explodes after Exillon attack gets one of his species best deaths.
But it’s all just so lacklustre. There’s no real energy in the direction. Which is a shame because this has all the potential to be a good fun – if pulpy – space romp. But it isn’t quite committing enough to that.
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#812 10 Apr 2009, 3:33 pm
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I don't object, and it's not like this forum or its predecessor is copyright or anything!
If I didn't want comments attributed to me in public, why on earth would I post them on an internet forum? Same appies to everyone.
Publish and be damned!
What he said.
I haven't posted here in quite a while, but I'm still reading and enjoying this thread! You reviews are always insightful, Dorney, and even when I don't agree with your assessment of a story they always make me think about it in a new light. I think the blog is a great idea, and if anyone objects, they can always ask you to remove their comments.
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Fear Me, for I am Quaadzelaan Xipuloxx! All hail Xipuloxx the Unsound!
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#813 11 Apr 2009, 12:51 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 3:
Sometimes an episode has something in it so famous you can’t help but mention it up front. A classic character, a great scene, an iconic image. And then some just have the most notoriously crap cliffhanger of all time. Yes, if there’s something that people tend to associate this story with, more often than not it’s the Doctor and Bellal reacting to a patterned floor. But let’s think about this a moment. Yes, it’s a laughably bad cliffhanger, but it’s important to notice what it tells us about the story, and its problems.
When I first saw this story this bit wasn’t a problem. It was the edited VHS release, so the precise cliffhanger locations were impossible to determine. But, when I didn’t know, I’d always take a guess, based around careful watching of the clock and guesswork. And, rather predictably I guessed the moment when the Daleks glide around the corner of the city and start firing at the spot where the Doctor previously stood. It’s a good guess, as were it not for the lack of material in the third episode, that was the scripted point.
But seen in context, there’s a full five minutes left to run. And that’s what’s interesting. The episode has to lift five minutes from the next episode and fill out it’s length, but unlike similar botch jobs (such as Planet of the Spiders 5/6), there’s no need to re-edit the cliffhanger reprise, or take it to absurd length. Episode four still runs to length without those five minutes.
When your final episode is so long that its offcuts can be used to pad out another episode without any trouble, when the earlier episodes aren’t full, doesn’t that suggest your saving too much up? That’s the main problem with this story so far. Lots of interesting ideas, but they’re left too late to be dealt with. Only now do we meet Bellal and get some exposition on the city (in one great big unashamed info-dump), for example, and seem to be moving on to something intriguing. Couldn’t this have come in a bit earlier? Too much of the story so far has been standard issue Dalek serial – slaves, shooting, threats, drilling, etc. This is the stuff that’s unique to this story, this is the element you should be focusing on.
But at the same time, there’s another problem. Whilst the city storyline is intriguing, it really isn’t marrying all that well with the Dalek plot. It’s like the Doctor is in a separate storyline. OK, there are efforts to tie it all together, but it’s clearly less than the sum of its parts.
Loads of weird little rubbish bits in this episode, btw. I don’t mean the violent root (which I like for the sound effect alone). More like the way that the logic test that’s supposed to have foiled a good three or four skeletons in the city is a simple map out of a child’s puzzle book. And Pertwee’s ‘Palpable hit’ stuff is pretentious and annoying.
Still, at least you still get the cliffhanger to laugh at.
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#814 14 Apr 2009, 12:01 pm
stanmore
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Re: Day by Day
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So, essentially, you disagree with the idea in The DisContinuity Guide that there's too much plot in this story rather than too little?
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#815 15 Apr 2009, 2:23 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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I've always found the concerns over stories' plot (or lack of) to be rather pointless, anyway. Doctor Who is a half-hour fun romp for all the family, half of which are too young or too hip to bother with plots and want other things - action, scares, character, cool designs and concepts, witty dialogue, even to learn something new ... why does plot always hog the limelight? Is it a fan thing?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#816 15 Apr 2009, 5:36 pm
Pete Lack
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Re: Day by Day
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Oh, I've always had something of a soft spot for 'Death' as it was my first VHS, and like Dorney, I viewed it as an edited 'movie' version. Unlike Dorney, I have never seen the original episodic version, so I have no real problems with the cliffhangers; in fact the first time I saw the 'floor of doom' was on the Trial DVD's cliffhangers docu...
My god, I even like Carey Blyton's saxophone score, which also gets a fair bit of stick. Takes all sorts hey?
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Phew, FIVE specials after all. Would you Adam and Eve it?
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#817 19 Apr 2009, 12:20 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanmore
So, essentially, you disagree with the idea in The DisContinuity Guide that there's too much plot in this story rather than too little?
Not exactly. I think there probably are too many interesting ideas in the story to explore in the time... as a result they all get short shrift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I've always found the concerns over stories' plot (or lack of) to be rather pointless, anyway. Doctor Who is a half-hour fun romp for all the family, half of which are too young or too hip to bother with plots and want other things - action, scares, character, cool designs and concepts, witty dialogue, even to learn something new ... why does plot always hog the limelight? Is it a fan thing?
I think it's down to individual taste. Personally, I think that all of the things you mention, whilst important, are usually improved when attached to a storyline that actually makes sense, or has a bit of drive. Humour is always at its funniest when there is something at stake, for example. In deed, I think that whilst, yes, half the audience probably don't get the plots (I struggle to think of what I made of Kinda as a child), there has to be something for everyone in the audience - it is a family show after all. And a rollicking story helps.
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#818 24 Apr 2009, 12:39 pm
Raveen
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Too much of the story so far has been standard issue Dalek serial – slaves, shooting, threats, drilling, etc.
Is this actually such a crime? For us as fans yes, because we've seen The Daleks, Dalek Invasion of Earth, Planet of the Daleks and all the other serials that tread much the same ground relatively recently. For the average viewer in Nineteen Seventy Whatever is was it's not going to seem like a rehash of past stories because they haven't seen or don't remember those stories. Ok so this argument falls down a bit becasue Planet was only a year ago but surely that story at least can be excused it's Daleks Greatest Hits status because the hits were so long ago?
It's the logic puzzles that really fail. Ok so the non-matching symbols works becasue we're never shown which one doesn't match so we can assume that the Doctor was very clever to work it out. The maze is much harder to justify. Ok it's something that kids can understand and relate to, but it's tricky to believe that nobody got past it (and we can assume that nobody did becuase the floor of death has no skeletons in evidence).
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#819 24 Apr 2009, 6:28 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raveen
Is this actually such a crime? For us as fans yes, because we've seen The Daleks, Dalek Invasion of Earth, Planet of the Daleks and all the other serials that tread much the same ground relatively recently. For the average viewer in Nineteen Seventy Whatever is was it's not going to seem like a rehash of past stories because they haven't seen or don't remember those stories. Ok so this argument falls down a bit becasue Planet was only a year ago but surely that story at least can be excused it's Daleks Greatest Hits status because the hits were so long ago?
I dunno - there's a degree to which that's right... but it's hard to put yourself in the mind of those who aren't regular watchers. Maybe they have clearer memories than we think.
Incidentally, part four's review will be up soon. I've been working on it for over a week, just been a bit busy!
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#820 1 May 2009, 12:14 pm
Richard2801
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Re: Day by Day
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For some reason I'd not caught up with this for a while - missing my chance to disagree with you markedly over Invasion of the Dinosaurs, I think! - but, sadly, you're spot-on with Death To the Daleks. I can never quite understand Michael E Briant's direction; in interviews and indeed in person he comes across as lively and committed, and on several stories he directs like that, too. At other times, it seems like someone utterly disinterested is saying 'yeah, whatever'. The script's so listless, too, that I can see how he'd have found it difficult to whip up enthusiasm, but still...
Anyway, I'm following your blog (excellent idea) now, so no doubt I'll see the whole lot come up eventually, which is exciting. I've now got as far as, er, The Daleks on my own 'do the lot' blog, which suggests I've cut the time it'll take me to complete it from a little under 500 years to not much over 200. Woo hoo!
(Alex, borrowing Richard. Richard writes his blog's Who reviews far more regularly)
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Read Millennium Elephant, for fluffy views and Doctor Who reviews.
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#821 3 May 2009, 2:13 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Death to the Daleks 4:
I’m not sure how I can really finish off this review without simply reusing a phrase from the episode 3 review – ‘less than the sum of its parts’. If there’s a phrase that sums Death to the Daleks, it’s that.
I’ve read that a lot of the story ideas here come from either Dicks or Holmes working behind the scenes, and that makes a lot of sense, frankly. Not because Nation’s incapable of coming up with intriguing concepts (he clearly is), but because the story is chock full of elements that never quite fit together. Particularly, the Daleks and their miracle mineral appear to be in a different story to the Exillon city. Notice how the central issue of the story – the power drain – is actually resolved twice as the natural conclusion to two separate threads.
In deed, if you think of it that way, there’s pretty much two separate stories going on here. One starring the Doctor and about the city, one about the Dalek’s battle of wills with the humans – and they only really intersect for one episode (two). The Doctor never really gets much dealings with the Daleks after that episode – mainly hanging around out of the way whilst the City deals with them – and their threat is resolved by Galloway rather than him. At times it feels like a backdoor pilot for a Dalek TV show.
And this approach ends up leaving them both a bit short changed. Whiltst the ‘meh’ quality of the Dalek plot isn’t all that disappointing, the Doctor’s thread is far more disappointing as it’s got so much more to play with. There’s never any real sense of what to do with this super-powered city, beautiful and haunting as it undeniably is (the death of the city at the end is really rather disturbing). Having a sequence of Crystal Maze traps smacks of desperation, especially when the logic for it is so fuzzy – only allow the smartest people into your brain, possibly to be made servants, though why you need servants at all, let alone smart ones, when you’ve been surviving perfectly well for hundreds of years is beyond me. Yes, the story takes loads of interesting ideas, but just doesn’t have the time or the interest into developing them into a proper solid story. Strong concepts – but no idea what to do with them.
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#822 3 May 2009, 3:38 pm
Gravitational Pull
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Particularly, the Daleks and their miracle mineral appear to be in a different story to the Exillon city. Notice how the central issue of the story – the power drain – is actually resolved twice as the natural conclusion to two separate threads.
Wow, I'd never actually noticed despite the fact (now that someone mentions it) it is a bit blatant.
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#823 15 May 2009, 1:14 am
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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I was watching the "Frighten Factor" documentary on the Deadly Assassin DVD tonight, and up pops a "John Dorney, Writer" as one of the talking heads ...
... is that you, Dorney?
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Fear Me, for I am Quaadzelaan Xipuloxx! All hail Xipuloxx the Unsound!
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#824 15 May 2009, 11:05 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
I was watching the "Frighten Factor" documentary on the Deadly Assassin DVD tonight, and up pops a "John Dorney, Writer" as one of the talking heads ...
... is that you, Dorney?
Er, yeah...
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#825 15 May 2009, 3:14 pm
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Cool! Congratulaions on your moment of fame, then! Because clearly there is no greater fame than appearing as a talking head on a Doctor Who DVD.
I hadn't realised you were a writer as well as an actor (you are an actor, right? I'm not going mad?), so I wasn't sure if it was you...
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Fear Me, for I am Quaadzelaan Xipuloxx! All hail Xipuloxx the Unsound!
(But you can call me Mark.)
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Of course I'm entirely serious. I teach History.
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#826 15 May 2009, 4:08 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
Cool! Congratulaions on your moment of fame, then! Because clearly there is no greater fame than appearing as a talking head on a Doctor Who DVD.
I hadn't realised you were a writer as well as an actor (you are an actor, right? I'm not going mad?), so I wasn't sure if it was you...
Hey, only did it for the freebie. Technically it's my second dvd mention (having been mentioned, although not by name) for a fanzine article I wrote in the Seeds of Death commentary (a series of articles about running down corridors that was, I cannot emphasise enough, meant to be a joke...).
But yes, write and act a bit. See my sig for some of my written material (plug plug).
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#827 15 May 2009, 6:43 pm
Mighty Chicken Man
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Hey, only did it for the freebie. Technically it's my second dvd mention (having been mentioned, although not by name) for a fanzine article I wrote in the Seeds of Death commentary (a series of articles about running down corridors that was, I cannot emphasise enough, meant to be a joke...).
But yes, write and act a bit. See my sig for some of my written material (plug plug).
i didn't think there were 2 dorneys! good to see you on it
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There's little of (RTD's era) that has anything lasting; I too prefer "The Space Museum" by a country mile....
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Originally Posted by ben chatham
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs
16 Feb 2009, 6:32 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Crikey, you know you're in trouble when you're not sure what to title the review....
Invasion 1:
As with a lot of the stories I'm watching on this marathon, I already have preconceived notions of what I think. In a number of cases, it's been an awfully long time since I last saw the stories in question, so those preconceived notions may not be based in reality, or at least the reality of today. Invasion of the Dinosaurs is a case in point. With that proviso in mind, and in the knowledge that I may change my mind about this as the rewatching continues, here's the opening statement.
If you don't like Invasion of the Dinosaurs, I think you have your Dr Who priorities wrong.
I recall a fairly infamous article in DWM that was titled something like '25 years of Turkeys'. I can't remember the precise number of years, but it was something like that. It was nothing but a dull rehashing of accepted fan consensus. Stories that were attacked for being different (The Gunfighters, for example, although another factor was the, eventually disproved, 'lowest rating story' thing), largely humourous (Nimon) or possessing dodgy effects. Invasion of the Dinosaurs was, naturally on the list. Very few of those mentioned were stories that were completely uninteresting or dull or just poorly written. Yes, the attack was on the surface, on stories that were made a bit badly, or cheaply.
For my money, that's the last thing we should care about. In deed, when even the most recent episode of the classic series is twenty years old, it seems absurd that people genuinely called stories turkeys on the basis of cheap sets or badly designed/executed special effects/monsters. From this vantage point, all classic series sets are cheap and unconvincing, and all the effects are terrible. If you're complaining about them, you're watching the show for the wrong reasons.
Doctor Who is all about the stories. The characters. That's why you should be watching. There's nothing inherently interesting or exciting about high production values or special effects (as any number of Hollywood blockbusters, and new-Who knock off ITV dramas should prove). What counts is the story being told. Yes, rubbish monsters aren't great, but are we really saying that should matter more than rubbish stories? Shouldn't that be where we're directing our ire? If you don't have enough of a facility to suspend your disbelief, what the hell are you doing watching imaginative fiction?
I can hardly wait for this story to come out on DVD. If they've any sense, they'll do that CGI replacement thing, and it might make the more unimaginative dullards who underrate this story reappraise it. Because it's got a great story.
As first episodes go, this is a genuine corker. Opening with an eerie montage of a deserted London (something I've always had a soft spot for), we manage to have that rare thing, certainly during the Pertwee era - the Doctor doing his traditional stumbling into an already ongoing story - yet on contemporary Earth. All of the traditional mystery elements of such a scenario are present, but the fact that they’re in a world we’re used to gone utterly strange lends them a disquieting air. Equally, it means that the characters and situations are stronger as we have easier reference points. The looters in this episode, for example, are drawn swiftly but cover all we need. We know exactly what the punishments mean, we know exactly the scale of what’s happening, we know this world. Which makes its sudden lurch into an almost post-apocalyptic milieu all the more disturbing. The Doctor is lost on home turf.
The regulars are all presented well. It’s always a relief when the Brig is presented as competent and intelligent (as Benton is here too). And the Doctor is on top form, genuinely likeable for a change – his mid mugshot grinning is one of Pertwee’s best moments, imo, somehow epitomising the ‘Doctor-ish’ quality. Better, perhaps, is that the scene manages to emphasise how important it is that he does it – he’s not just messing around, he’s doing it to help out Sarah-Jane, relax her (note how she just about manages to do exactly the same, albeit a little less confidently). Even the Venusinan Karate scenes are nicely done.
If there’s anything odd about this episode, it’s the fact that given how quickly the story reveals its trump card (well, supposed trump card), the dinosaurs, the fake title does seem odd. We see them within ten minutes or so. Still never mind, eh? This episode is tense, presents an effectively well-realised world that seems unnervingly dangerous and strange, and hooks you in. Something of a runaround, it’s nonetheless extremely enjoyable and entertaining.
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#789 16 Feb 2009, 6:43 pm
Liberty Hall
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Re: Day by Day
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Love this story - although for me, as with all season 11 stories, it's always great when you realise Jo Grant isn't in it.
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"This is only supposed to be a Top Secret military organisation" mused the Brigadier with considerable sarcasm. Doctor Tyler was lost for words.
"Liberty Hall, Doctor Tyler, Liberty Hall.." The Brigadier turned and strode briskly away.
"Who does that @£$% think he's talking to?" thought Tyler to himself.
"!@£$ f@£5er! I ought to kick his f@£$ing head in..." Tyler turned back to the lab bench.
Doctor Who & The Three Doctors, Target Books
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#790 16 Feb 2009, 7:48 pm
Doc Phibes
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
As first episodes go, this is a genuine corker. Opening with an eerie montage of a deserted London (something I've always had a soft spot for), we manage to have that rare thing, certainly during the Pertwee era - the Doctor doing his traditional stumbling into an already ongoing story - yet on contemporary Earth. All of the traditional mystery elements of such a scenario are present, but the fact that they’re in a world we’re used to gone utterly strange lends them a disquieting air. Equally, it means that the characters and situations are stronger as we have easier reference points. The looters in this episode, for example, are drawn swiftly but cover all we need. We know exactly what the punishments mean, we know exactly the scale of what’s happening, we know this world. Which makes its sudden lurch into an almost post-apocalyptic milieu all the more disturbing. The Doctor is lost on home turf.
An excellent observation. We're well into the British sci-fi/horror traditions of Day Of The Triffids or 28 Days Later here.
Quote:
...for me, as with all season 11 stories, it's always great when you realise Jo Grant isn't in it.
Oh, go stewey in your phooey!
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#791 17 Feb 2009, 12:14 am
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Doctor Who is all about the stories. The characters. That's why you should be watching. There's nothing inherently interesting or exciting about high production values or special effects (as any number of Hollywood blockbusters, and new-Who knock off ITV dramas should prove). What counts is the story being told. Yes, rubbish monsters aren't great, but are we really saying that should matter more than rubbish stories? Shouldn't that be where we're directing our ire? If you don't have enough of a facility to suspend your disbelief, what the hell are you doing watching imaginative fiction?
I read one of those Target book thingies once. Science fiction, like. It was all just words, printed on paper! Talk about cheap. And dated. At several points I had to turn a page over, completely taking me out of what little "moment" I had managed to find. At some points, there were pictures - "illustrations" - that were in black and white! Nothing like a decent Sci-Fi movie like "The Chronicles of Riddick".
Don't know what people see in 'em.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#792 17 Feb 2009, 12:18 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The regulars are all presented well. It’s always a relief when the Brig is presented as competent and intelligent (as Benton is here too). And the Doctor is on top form, genuinely likeable for a change – his mid mugshot grinning is one of Pertwee’s best moments, imo, somehow epitomising the ‘Doctor-ish’ quality.
I love it when he puts his arm round Sarah and says to the Army photographer "how about one of us both together?"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#793 17 Feb 2009, 9:27 am
codywillis1
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South Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
I recall a fairly infamous article in DWM that was titled something like '25 years of Turkeys'. I can't remember the precise number of years, but it was something like that. It was nothing but a dull rehashing of accepted fan consensus. .
I never realised they had the Time Team back then, too!
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#794 18 Feb 2009, 12:33 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 2:
Again, something of a minor gem.
It's striking that this story has effectively divided the first two episodes into two questions, two questions that are usually presented together. What and why?
The first episode is based entirely around the mystery of what is going on. Arguably, this is why the title card is different when the monsters get a surprisingly early reveal. With hindsight, it's clear that this is entirely about dinosaurs, but the Pterodactyl's appearance doesn't confirm that we're only dealing with dinosaurs. The mystery is maintained, and with this episode developed - the medieval peasant and the time eddies all add questions.
But as with any good story, there's only so long you want to wait for answers. So this episode starts to answer those questions. The Doctor is quick off the mark to figure out a logic to the appearances. Which, of course, shifts the questions into a different area. We're no longer concerned with what is happening, we're concerned with why it is.
And what an interesting question that is. Those of you with long memories might remember that way back in my review of Enemy of the World, I said there were three great twists in Doctor Who history. Here's the second - Mike Yates is a bad guy.
Actually, it's a little more complicated than that. The central implication of Mike working for the bad guys implies that whatever they're up to is a little bit more interesting than simple goodies and baddies. If the straight up UNIT soldier is betraying his friends, there's got to be a bit more to it than demented world domination. We get a handful of clues - perhaps too many. It's hard to tell when you already know what the plot is, but the 'green' stuff is potentially a little too obviously emphasised. Certainly Mike's talk on the beauty of the silent city stands out a touch. It's a great pointer to what's coming up, but it does feel a touch out of character. Or rather, I was going to say that but realised it isn't quite true. The problem is that this is the first time Mike has really appeared to possess a strong and obvious personality.
Generally, the story retains it's air of fun runaround, whilst maintaining enough intrigue to get you hooked. Nice bits of humour abound (Benton's dinosaur briefing leaps out in particular, as does the Doctor's almost slapstick attempts not to be interrupted, although this is pushed a little too obviously and Pertwee's final response too broadly 'comic' to work entirely). Still solid.
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#795 18 Feb 2009, 2:44 am
Menome
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Re: Day by Day
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As I only watched IOTD for the first time a month or so ago, I can see how Mike Yates' green angle seems to be too much of a clue when viewed in hindsight. When I was going through the episode though, I merely thought it was just supposed to be a nice character-touch, rather than anything integral to the plot, and thus actually does work in the way it was probably intended. Well, for me it did anyway.
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#796 21 Feb 2009, 12:39 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 3:
With the last Malcolm Hulke story, Frontier, we saw how he managed to survive the problems of a six-parter (just about) by constantly introducing new elements (new locations for the most part... well, new places to have cells, I suppose). And that's what happens again here.
It's probably bad form to start the review with the end of the episode, but it's kind of key to what's going on. Throughout this episode we're beginning to get the sense of where things are going - the dinosaurs are being generated by a small group determined to empty London, a group with a purpose unknown, but potentially altruistic. We're even beginning to find out who the secret masters of the scheme are. All the cards appear to be on (or at least near the table).
And then we have one of the best rug-pulls the series managed. The sudden shift into a new element (a spaceship that's left earth) that seems to have very little to do with what's gone before is a superb hook. Immediately we're back in the position of asking questions, just at the point where we thought we had got all the answers. Sublime.
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to come back. If they're not one of those people put off by the SFX.
Cos this episode does contain the best and worst of them. Interestingly, it does seem to me that the problems with the dinosaur models are overstated a touch. Firstly, it isn't all of them that are a problem. The Stegosaurus and Brontosaurus we've had so far have been acceptable enough, mainly cos they don't move. No, it's only really the big T-Rex that we have to worry about. It's a fairly rubbish model in the first place, just in terms of appearance (and it's longer than realistic arms). Though again, not all the time (the extreme close ups of its face work surprisingly well). Having said all that, we do get one truly atrocious moment when it wakes up from slumber and sort of semi-levitates to an upright position (given my episode one review, it's important to clarify - it's fine to notice that the effects are bad - it's just not a good reason to string up a decent script).
But plot wise it's all progressing nicely. We're getting the good guys making enough progress that it doesn't feel like it's all being padded out, everything falling out in a logical and character driven way (yes, Mike's sabotage holds
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#797 22 Feb 2009, 12:09 am
codywillis1
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Re: Day by Day
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Holds what? The suspense is killing me!
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"The McCoy era is the brilliant, magical, eternally under-rated, Indian summer of classic Who." - Hawksmoor
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#798 22 Feb 2009, 2:42 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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That's odd... did write a little bit more extra material that got lost somehow.
I think it continues with words to the effect of - 'holds the plot up, but that's sort of the point, and it's a strong character development. Decent stuff.'
Pretty much just that I think.
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#799 10 Mar 2009, 2:04 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 4:
There’s an enjoyable sub-genre of the crime novel called ‘the reverse whodunnit’. Most obviously popularised by Columbo on the TV, the form does pre-exist it (Dial M for Murder being an obvious example). It’s the story where we see who the murderer is at the beginning, and the mystery and tension is provided by the question of how they’re going to be caught.
The reason I bring this up is that this story strikes me as the closest Who ever gets to the same model – a reverse Doctor Who, if you like. We meet the baddies in episode two, and from there on in the drama is entirely about their efforts to stop the Doctor discovering them. It’s all from their perspective.
Think I’m exaggerating? Look at the reveal of General Finch as one of the bad guys this episode. There’s no big moment, no deliberate betrayal of the Doctor. It’s revealed, almost in passing, in a quick scene with Yates. Furthermore, look at how much of the story is being told with the Doctor in ignorant bliss, how much of it is done with the viewer knowing more than him (Butler as Grover’s chauffeur, for example).
This all adds up to the fact that this is a story that’s about the villains rather than the heroes – and particularly about Yates. Very firmly in the character rather than plot driven camp, and all the more evidence of Hulke’s lack of interest in the whole dinosaur bit.
There’s a fairly obvious reason for this. It’s the fact that the goodies aren’t really doing much. Sarah is stuck in a subplot, albeit an interesting one (nice to see that they’re still maintaining the mystery of the startling cliffhanger by continuing the seemingly unrelated thread going). And the Doctor’s investigations are a little dull frankly. Thing is, he’ basically got it pegged from the moment he arrives on the scene. His initial scheme – to use a disappearance to trace the energy source – is bang on. So you don’t really have the usual cat and mouse game of the Doctor getting a bit more information, the old slow drip. As a result, the tension has to come from somewhere. And it’s from whether the villains can stop the Doctor, and the moral struggle of Yates. The mystery of what is going on is shifted from what is causing the appearances to what is actually motivating the bad guys (it’s noticeable that for all its moral ambiguity, the story still does paint them in surprisingly broad strokes for a Hulke story – Butler, Finch and Whitaker are all fairly directly unpleasant from the get go. Though to be fair, this probably helps in terms of viewer response. If they weren’t obviously bad, and the story was about two nice groups of people, then I’m not sure there’d be much drama).
Still very good though. The only real fly in the ointment this time round remain the dinosaurs (particularly the T-Rex standing up from supine position… I know what I’ve said about suspension of disbelief, but sometimes this story makes it really, really hard…). And that still ain’t enough to derail it completely.
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#800 10 Mar 2009, 2:05 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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You know, just checking the dates, it astonishes me how long it took me to write that review. I didn't watch episode 4 too long after three, and I started writing it up fairly soon after... I've been doing bits and bobs of it for a fortnight. Crikey.
15 Mar 2009, 11:40 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 5:
It does say something about where the writer’s interest lies in this script in that it’s able to shunt the Doctor off for the majority of the episode – without massively hurting it.
Now, admittedly, the chase runaround that occupies him for the majority of the episode is blatant padding. Padding that I have seen widely criticised. If I’m honest, though, it doesn’t really trouble me. It’s broken up sufficiently that it doesn’t really drag, It’s only really problematic on a narrative level. As I mentioned last episode, the Doctor’s storyline in this story is so straightforward he pretty much can’t be allowed to do anything.
Which leaves all the good stuff to the other characters. Sarah is coming over very well – in particular, the long sequences of her break-out of the fake spaceship, culminating in her stepping out of the airlock, are stronger moments than the Doctor has had all story. Oddly, there never really seems to be a big reveal for this reasonably strong twist, but that’s a minor quibble. (Incidentally, given what I said in episode four about this being a story from the bad guy’s perspective first and foremost, note how General Finch pulling a gun on Sarah would be the moment of revelation in any other version. He hasn’t really done anything plotwise that can’t be attributed to Grover somehow, so the early reveal isn’t dictated by the plot).
Equally, there’s good material for the Brig and Benton, albeit with limited screentime, both given the chance to prove their trust of and loyalty to the Doctor, with Benton’s self-sacrificial knocking out a particularly fine example.
Beyond that, there’s very little to comment on. We get the full details of the bad guy’s plans. It’s a little disappointing that it is so obviously wrong. After several episodes hinting that it was mainly about a good moral outcome, it does seem a little straightforwardly ‘evil’, to the degree that Grover now just seems mental. Still, that’s a minor quibble in a reasonably enjoyable, and helpfully largely dinosaur free, episode.
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#802 16 Mar 2009, 11:55 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 6:
After all of the last episode’s time wasting, and the last five’s sidelining of the Doctor, it’s somewhat surprising to see how much happens in this episode, and how much our hero actually gets to do. Why did we need to have an overlong chase in the last episode when this one almost doesn’t have enough space to do it justice?
Almost. It is packed to the very edge, but it gets away with it. Most of the regular UNIT team get their own perfect showpiece here, a little stand out scene. It is still hard to reconcile the Mike we have here with the comparatively noble and intelligent character who we’ve watched for three years, but given that it’s far and away the most interesting the character gets it’s rather more tempting to try and square the old Mike with this one. Benton makes a serious grab at making this his best story (off the top of my head, I can’t think of any that come close – possibly Inferno, but that’s probably technically closer in the battle for Levene himself’s best rather than Benton’s), with his disarming of his old friend and fight with a General. The Brigadier doesn’t get a real set piece of his own, but it’s not like he really needs them any more. He’s just well written and performed (his little lament for Yates at the end is nicely understated).
Sarah remains ballsy and smart, always on the initiative. In deed, it’s telling that the resolution of the story is fairly heavily based on her actions within the fake spaceship. In true 21st century Who style, the influence of the Doctor and his companion inspire others to save the day, with the chain of persuasion from Adam to Mark a particularly fine touch.
If the Doctor doesn’t get to have any ‘cool’ moments himself, that’s more the fault of the individual sequences than an absence. He does get his bit, a coda located lecture on the evils and perils of the world, but it’s a little overloaded and lacking in subtlety. Still, Pertwee performs it with conviction, so it almost gets away with it. Less likely is the moment when, after having dynamited the entrance to the lift, the Doctor insists on going down alone as he doesn’t want to attract attention. Because obviously the explosion won’t be noticed in the least.
If there’s a problem, it’s that the motivations of the bad guys are never really sufficiently developed. Grover is the only really convincing conspirator – the other three are so obviously cold and miserable that you can’t understand how they came to be involved in such a scheme. But generally, the story wraps up in fine and exciting style, throwing in intriguing new concepts right to the end (Grover suiting up to fake space walk, for example). Overall, severely under-rated.
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#803 17 Mar 2009, 12:26 am
WhoBoy93
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Once more, with the correct title!
Just in case there are any newbies, time for a quick recap. I've been spending most of the last six months watching, roughly, an episode a day in order from the very start. This is a thread about that epic quest. Every day I try to post my thoughts on whatever episode I've just sat through. I've been having quite a bit of fun. Some stories I've surprised myself by liking, others I've surprised myself by hating. Sometimes I tow the party line, sometimes I don't.
I'm joined in the journey by the great Ianzpotter, who's watching all the episodes too. I've never met Ian, but he has done my thread the honour of bringing his wise words to it.
If you want to see our opinions on the Hartnell years, here's the link to the old forum
http://p077.ezboard.com/fthedoctorwh...t=201&stop=218
And if you have a look at the Hartnell's bear in mind that they're quite perfunctory up until roughly the Sensorites, for me at least, after which point I began to get a bit more detailed...
Dunno if anyone else has told you this, but you should re-format everything into a blog.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnstone
DW was good. ST was s***.
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Originally Posted by Minister of Chance
Two minutes to Belgium!
Can this be a new phrase for impeding disasters?
:-)
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#804 18 Mar 2009, 2:38 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoBoy93
Dunno if anyone else has told you this, but you should re-format everything into a blog.
I really should, I suppose...
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#805 30 Mar 2009, 12:53 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Following the suggestion:
The World of Dorney
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#806 31 Mar 2009, 9:52 pm
Incus
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Following the suggestion:
The World of Dorney
Thanks very much, Dorney.
A fascinating read. It has made the classic series for more accessible for me (someone who was largely unaware of events pre-2005).
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#807 31 Mar 2009, 10:38 pm
Benjamin Adams
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Re: Day by Day
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Not meaning to be priggish here, John -- but d'you reckon everyone whose posts you're reproducing over there would take kindly to it? I'm pretty sure I posted once or twice, and I have no issue with you doing so personally, but I'm keeping in mind the furore Stephen James Walker faced from a small group of vocal Torchwood fans when he quoted briefly from their public Livejournal pages in his last unofficial Torchwood guide. He had the right to do so, under Fair Use, but it wound up being more trouble than it was worth. In this case you're copying over both your original posts but also everyone's responses, completely intact, which seems worrisome.
xx
Ben
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#808 1 Apr 2009, 1:35 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Adams
Not meaning to be priggish here, John -- but d'you reckon everyone whose posts you're reproducing over there would take kindly to it? I'm pretty sure I posted once or twice, and I have no issue with you doing so personally, but I'm keeping in mind the furore Stephen James Walker faced from a small group of vocal Torchwood fans when he quoted briefly from their public Livejournal pages in his last unofficial Torchwood guide. He had the right to do so, under Fair Use, but it wound up being more trouble than it was worth. In this case you're copying over both your original posts but also everyone's responses, completely intact, which seems worrisome.
xx
Ben
The thought crossed my mind. The problem is that I'm not sure there's much I can do about it. The discussion and debate have always been an important part of the thread (and in some cases directly influenced subsequent reviews), so they're hard to remove. But at the same time, I'm not sure it's possible to ask everybody directly.
I suppose I can easily edit something out if someone objects.
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Crikey, you know you're in trouble when you're not sure what to title the review....
Invasion 1:
As with a lot of the stories I'm watching on this marathon, I already have preconceived notions of what I think. In a number of cases, it's been an awfully long time since I last saw the stories in question, so those preconceived notions may not be based in reality, or at least the reality of today. Invasion of the Dinosaurs is a case in point. With that proviso in mind, and in the knowledge that I may change my mind about this as the rewatching continues, here's the opening statement.
If you don't like Invasion of the Dinosaurs, I think you have your Dr Who priorities wrong.
I recall a fairly infamous article in DWM that was titled something like '25 years of Turkeys'. I can't remember the precise number of years, but it was something like that. It was nothing but a dull rehashing of accepted fan consensus. Stories that were attacked for being different (The Gunfighters, for example, although another factor was the, eventually disproved, 'lowest rating story' thing), largely humourous (Nimon) or possessing dodgy effects. Invasion of the Dinosaurs was, naturally on the list. Very few of those mentioned were stories that were completely uninteresting or dull or just poorly written. Yes, the attack was on the surface, on stories that were made a bit badly, or cheaply.
For my money, that's the last thing we should care about. In deed, when even the most recent episode of the classic series is twenty years old, it seems absurd that people genuinely called stories turkeys on the basis of cheap sets or badly designed/executed special effects/monsters. From this vantage point, all classic series sets are cheap and unconvincing, and all the effects are terrible. If you're complaining about them, you're watching the show for the wrong reasons.
Doctor Who is all about the stories. The characters. That's why you should be watching. There's nothing inherently interesting or exciting about high production values or special effects (as any number of Hollywood blockbusters, and new-Who knock off ITV dramas should prove). What counts is the story being told. Yes, rubbish monsters aren't great, but are we really saying that should matter more than rubbish stories? Shouldn't that be where we're directing our ire? If you don't have enough of a facility to suspend your disbelief, what the hell are you doing watching imaginative fiction?
I can hardly wait for this story to come out on DVD. If they've any sense, they'll do that CGI replacement thing, and it might make the more unimaginative dullards who underrate this story reappraise it. Because it's got a great story.
As first episodes go, this is a genuine corker. Opening with an eerie montage of a deserted London (something I've always had a soft spot for), we manage to have that rare thing, certainly during the Pertwee era - the Doctor doing his traditional stumbling into an already ongoing story - yet on contemporary Earth. All of the traditional mystery elements of such a scenario are present, but the fact that they’re in a world we’re used to gone utterly strange lends them a disquieting air. Equally, it means that the characters and situations are stronger as we have easier reference points. The looters in this episode, for example, are drawn swiftly but cover all we need. We know exactly what the punishments mean, we know exactly the scale of what’s happening, we know this world. Which makes its sudden lurch into an almost post-apocalyptic milieu all the more disturbing. The Doctor is lost on home turf.
The regulars are all presented well. It’s always a relief when the Brig is presented as competent and intelligent (as Benton is here too). And the Doctor is on top form, genuinely likeable for a change – his mid mugshot grinning is one of Pertwee’s best moments, imo, somehow epitomising the ‘Doctor-ish’ quality. Better, perhaps, is that the scene manages to emphasise how important it is that he does it – he’s not just messing around, he’s doing it to help out Sarah-Jane, relax her (note how she just about manages to do exactly the same, albeit a little less confidently). Even the Venusinan Karate scenes are nicely done.
If there’s anything odd about this episode, it’s the fact that given how quickly the story reveals its trump card (well, supposed trump card), the dinosaurs, the fake title does seem odd. We see them within ten minutes or so. Still never mind, eh? This episode is tense, presents an effectively well-realised world that seems unnervingly dangerous and strange, and hooks you in. Something of a runaround, it’s nonetheless extremely enjoyable and entertaining.
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#789 16 Feb 2009, 6:43 pm
Liberty Hall
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Re: Day by Day
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Love this story - although for me, as with all season 11 stories, it's always great when you realise Jo Grant isn't in it.
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"This is only supposed to be a Top Secret military organisation" mused the Brigadier with considerable sarcasm. Doctor Tyler was lost for words.
"Liberty Hall, Doctor Tyler, Liberty Hall.." The Brigadier turned and strode briskly away.
"Who does that @£$% think he's talking to?" thought Tyler to himself.
"!@£$ f@£5er! I ought to kick his f@£$ing head in..." Tyler turned back to the lab bench.
Doctor Who & The Three Doctors, Target Books
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#790 16 Feb 2009, 7:48 pm
Doc Phibes
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
As first episodes go, this is a genuine corker. Opening with an eerie montage of a deserted London (something I've always had a soft spot for), we manage to have that rare thing, certainly during the Pertwee era - the Doctor doing his traditional stumbling into an already ongoing story - yet on contemporary Earth. All of the traditional mystery elements of such a scenario are present, but the fact that they’re in a world we’re used to gone utterly strange lends them a disquieting air. Equally, it means that the characters and situations are stronger as we have easier reference points. The looters in this episode, for example, are drawn swiftly but cover all we need. We know exactly what the punishments mean, we know exactly the scale of what’s happening, we know this world. Which makes its sudden lurch into an almost post-apocalyptic milieu all the more disturbing. The Doctor is lost on home turf.
An excellent observation. We're well into the British sci-fi/horror traditions of Day Of The Triffids or 28 Days Later here.
Quote:
...for me, as with all season 11 stories, it's always great when you realise Jo Grant isn't in it.
Oh, go stewey in your phooey!
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"Ohh! I'm thick! Look at me! I'm old and thick! Head's too full of stuff! I need a bigger head!"
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delgadofan:
Delgs in full f***-off-I'm-The-Daddy-Now guise, lording it up with a fat cigar, a Chauffeur-driven limo and King Crimson on the tape-deck. Coolness does not drop much lower in temperature, ladies and gentlemen.
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#791 17 Feb 2009, 12:14 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Doctor Who is all about the stories. The characters. That's why you should be watching. There's nothing inherently interesting or exciting about high production values or special effects (as any number of Hollywood blockbusters, and new-Who knock off ITV dramas should prove). What counts is the story being told. Yes, rubbish monsters aren't great, but are we really saying that should matter more than rubbish stories? Shouldn't that be where we're directing our ire? If you don't have enough of a facility to suspend your disbelief, what the hell are you doing watching imaginative fiction?
I read one of those Target book thingies once. Science fiction, like. It was all just words, printed on paper! Talk about cheap. And dated. At several points I had to turn a page over, completely taking me out of what little "moment" I had managed to find. At some points, there were pictures - "illustrations" - that were in black and white! Nothing like a decent Sci-Fi movie like "The Chronicles of Riddick".
Don't know what people see in 'em.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#792 17 Feb 2009, 12:18 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The regulars are all presented well. It’s always a relief when the Brig is presented as competent and intelligent (as Benton is here too). And the Doctor is on top form, genuinely likeable for a change – his mid mugshot grinning is one of Pertwee’s best moments, imo, somehow epitomising the ‘Doctor-ish’ quality.
I love it when he puts his arm round Sarah and says to the Army photographer "how about one of us both together?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#793 17 Feb 2009, 9:27 am
codywillis1
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
I recall a fairly infamous article in DWM that was titled something like '25 years of Turkeys'. I can't remember the precise number of years, but it was something like that. It was nothing but a dull rehashing of accepted fan consensus. .
I never realised they had the Time Team back then, too!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The McCoy era is the brilliant, magical, eternally under-rated, Indian summer of classic Who." - Hawksmoor
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#794 18 Feb 2009, 12:33 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 2:
Again, something of a minor gem.
It's striking that this story has effectively divided the first two episodes into two questions, two questions that are usually presented together. What and why?
The first episode is based entirely around the mystery of what is going on. Arguably, this is why the title card is different when the monsters get a surprisingly early reveal. With hindsight, it's clear that this is entirely about dinosaurs, but the Pterodactyl's appearance doesn't confirm that we're only dealing with dinosaurs. The mystery is maintained, and with this episode developed - the medieval peasant and the time eddies all add questions.
But as with any good story, there's only so long you want to wait for answers. So this episode starts to answer those questions. The Doctor is quick off the mark to figure out a logic to the appearances. Which, of course, shifts the questions into a different area. We're no longer concerned with what is happening, we're concerned with why it is.
And what an interesting question that is. Those of you with long memories might remember that way back in my review of Enemy of the World, I said there were three great twists in Doctor Who history. Here's the second - Mike Yates is a bad guy.
Actually, it's a little more complicated than that. The central implication of Mike working for the bad guys implies that whatever they're up to is a little bit more interesting than simple goodies and baddies. If the straight up UNIT soldier is betraying his friends, there's got to be a bit more to it than demented world domination. We get a handful of clues - perhaps too many. It's hard to tell when you already know what the plot is, but the 'green' stuff is potentially a little too obviously emphasised. Certainly Mike's talk on the beauty of the silent city stands out a touch. It's a great pointer to what's coming up, but it does feel a touch out of character. Or rather, I was going to say that but realised it isn't quite true. The problem is that this is the first time Mike has really appeared to possess a strong and obvious personality.
Generally, the story retains it's air of fun runaround, whilst maintaining enough intrigue to get you hooked. Nice bits of humour abound (Benton's dinosaur briefing leaps out in particular, as does the Doctor's almost slapstick attempts not to be interrupted, although this is pushed a little too obviously and Pertwee's final response too broadly 'comic' to work entirely). Still solid.
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#795 18 Feb 2009, 2:44 am
Menome
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Re: Day by Day
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As I only watched IOTD for the first time a month or so ago, I can see how Mike Yates' green angle seems to be too much of a clue when viewed in hindsight. When I was going through the episode though, I merely thought it was just supposed to be a nice character-touch, rather than anything integral to the plot, and thus actually does work in the way it was probably intended. Well, for me it did anyway.
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#796 21 Feb 2009, 12:39 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 3:
With the last Malcolm Hulke story, Frontier, we saw how he managed to survive the problems of a six-parter (just about) by constantly introducing new elements (new locations for the most part... well, new places to have cells, I suppose). And that's what happens again here.
It's probably bad form to start the review with the end of the episode, but it's kind of key to what's going on. Throughout this episode we're beginning to get the sense of where things are going - the dinosaurs are being generated by a small group determined to empty London, a group with a purpose unknown, but potentially altruistic. We're even beginning to find out who the secret masters of the scheme are. All the cards appear to be on (or at least near the table).
And then we have one of the best rug-pulls the series managed. The sudden shift into a new element (a spaceship that's left earth) that seems to have very little to do with what's gone before is a superb hook. Immediately we're back in the position of asking questions, just at the point where we thought we had got all the answers. Sublime.
I can't imagine anyone not wanting to come back. If they're not one of those people put off by the SFX.
Cos this episode does contain the best and worst of them. Interestingly, it does seem to me that the problems with the dinosaur models are overstated a touch. Firstly, it isn't all of them that are a problem. The Stegosaurus and Brontosaurus we've had so far have been acceptable enough, mainly cos they don't move. No, it's only really the big T-Rex that we have to worry about. It's a fairly rubbish model in the first place, just in terms of appearance (and it's longer than realistic arms). Though again, not all the time (the extreme close ups of its face work surprisingly well). Having said all that, we do get one truly atrocious moment when it wakes up from slumber and sort of semi-levitates to an upright position (given my episode one review, it's important to clarify - it's fine to notice that the effects are bad - it's just not a good reason to string up a decent script).
But plot wise it's all progressing nicely. We're getting the good guys making enough progress that it doesn't feel like it's all being padded out, everything falling out in a logical and character driven way (yes, Mike's sabotage holds
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#797 22 Feb 2009, 12:09 am
codywillis1
Time Lord
South Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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Holds what? The suspense is killing me!
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"The McCoy era is the brilliant, magical, eternally under-rated, Indian summer of classic Who." - Hawksmoor
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#798 22 Feb 2009, 2:42 am
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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That's odd... did write a little bit more extra material that got lost somehow.
I think it continues with words to the effect of - 'holds the plot up, but that's sort of the point, and it's a strong character development. Decent stuff.'
Pretty much just that I think.
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#799 10 Mar 2009, 2:04 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 4:
There’s an enjoyable sub-genre of the crime novel called ‘the reverse whodunnit’. Most obviously popularised by Columbo on the TV, the form does pre-exist it (Dial M for Murder being an obvious example). It’s the story where we see who the murderer is at the beginning, and the mystery and tension is provided by the question of how they’re going to be caught.
The reason I bring this up is that this story strikes me as the closest Who ever gets to the same model – a reverse Doctor Who, if you like. We meet the baddies in episode two, and from there on in the drama is entirely about their efforts to stop the Doctor discovering them. It’s all from their perspective.
Think I’m exaggerating? Look at the reveal of General Finch as one of the bad guys this episode. There’s no big moment, no deliberate betrayal of the Doctor. It’s revealed, almost in passing, in a quick scene with Yates. Furthermore, look at how much of the story is being told with the Doctor in ignorant bliss, how much of it is done with the viewer knowing more than him (Butler as Grover’s chauffeur, for example).
This all adds up to the fact that this is a story that’s about the villains rather than the heroes – and particularly about Yates. Very firmly in the character rather than plot driven camp, and all the more evidence of Hulke’s lack of interest in the whole dinosaur bit.
There’s a fairly obvious reason for this. It’s the fact that the goodies aren’t really doing much. Sarah is stuck in a subplot, albeit an interesting one (nice to see that they’re still maintaining the mystery of the startling cliffhanger by continuing the seemingly unrelated thread going). And the Doctor’s investigations are a little dull frankly. Thing is, he’ basically got it pegged from the moment he arrives on the scene. His initial scheme – to use a disappearance to trace the energy source – is bang on. So you don’t really have the usual cat and mouse game of the Doctor getting a bit more information, the old slow drip. As a result, the tension has to come from somewhere. And it’s from whether the villains can stop the Doctor, and the moral struggle of Yates. The mystery of what is going on is shifted from what is causing the appearances to what is actually motivating the bad guys (it’s noticeable that for all its moral ambiguity, the story still does paint them in surprisingly broad strokes for a Hulke story – Butler, Finch and Whitaker are all fairly directly unpleasant from the get go. Though to be fair, this probably helps in terms of viewer response. If they weren’t obviously bad, and the story was about two nice groups of people, then I’m not sure there’d be much drama).
Still very good though. The only real fly in the ointment this time round remain the dinosaurs (particularly the T-Rex standing up from supine position… I know what I’ve said about suspension of disbelief, but sometimes this story makes it really, really hard…). And that still ain’t enough to derail it completely.
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#800 10 Mar 2009, 2:05 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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You know, just checking the dates, it astonishes me how long it took me to write that review. I didn't watch episode 4 too long after three, and I started writing it up fairly soon after... I've been doing bits and bobs of it for a fortnight. Crikey.
15 Mar 2009, 11:40 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 5:
It does say something about where the writer’s interest lies in this script in that it’s able to shunt the Doctor off for the majority of the episode – without massively hurting it.
Now, admittedly, the chase runaround that occupies him for the majority of the episode is blatant padding. Padding that I have seen widely criticised. If I’m honest, though, it doesn’t really trouble me. It’s broken up sufficiently that it doesn’t really drag, It’s only really problematic on a narrative level. As I mentioned last episode, the Doctor’s storyline in this story is so straightforward he pretty much can’t be allowed to do anything.
Which leaves all the good stuff to the other characters. Sarah is coming over very well – in particular, the long sequences of her break-out of the fake spaceship, culminating in her stepping out of the airlock, are stronger moments than the Doctor has had all story. Oddly, there never really seems to be a big reveal for this reasonably strong twist, but that’s a minor quibble. (Incidentally, given what I said in episode four about this being a story from the bad guy’s perspective first and foremost, note how General Finch pulling a gun on Sarah would be the moment of revelation in any other version. He hasn’t really done anything plotwise that can’t be attributed to Grover somehow, so the early reveal isn’t dictated by the plot).
Equally, there’s good material for the Brig and Benton, albeit with limited screentime, both given the chance to prove their trust of and loyalty to the Doctor, with Benton’s self-sacrificial knocking out a particularly fine example.
Beyond that, there’s very little to comment on. We get the full details of the bad guy’s plans. It’s a little disappointing that it is so obviously wrong. After several episodes hinting that it was mainly about a good moral outcome, it does seem a little straightforwardly ‘evil’, to the degree that Grover now just seems mental. Still, that’s a minor quibble in a reasonably enjoyable, and helpfully largely dinosaur free, episode.
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#802 16 Mar 2009, 11:55 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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Invasion of the Dinosaurs 6:
After all of the last episode’s time wasting, and the last five’s sidelining of the Doctor, it’s somewhat surprising to see how much happens in this episode, and how much our hero actually gets to do. Why did we need to have an overlong chase in the last episode when this one almost doesn’t have enough space to do it justice?
Almost. It is packed to the very edge, but it gets away with it. Most of the regular UNIT team get their own perfect showpiece here, a little stand out scene. It is still hard to reconcile the Mike we have here with the comparatively noble and intelligent character who we’ve watched for three years, but given that it’s far and away the most interesting the character gets it’s rather more tempting to try and square the old Mike with this one. Benton makes a serious grab at making this his best story (off the top of my head, I can’t think of any that come close – possibly Inferno, but that’s probably technically closer in the battle for Levene himself’s best rather than Benton’s), with his disarming of his old friend and fight with a General. The Brigadier doesn’t get a real set piece of his own, but it’s not like he really needs them any more. He’s just well written and performed (his little lament for Yates at the end is nicely understated).
Sarah remains ballsy and smart, always on the initiative. In deed, it’s telling that the resolution of the story is fairly heavily based on her actions within the fake spaceship. In true 21st century Who style, the influence of the Doctor and his companion inspire others to save the day, with the chain of persuasion from Adam to Mark a particularly fine touch.
If the Doctor doesn’t get to have any ‘cool’ moments himself, that’s more the fault of the individual sequences than an absence. He does get his bit, a coda located lecture on the evils and perils of the world, but it’s a little overloaded and lacking in subtlety. Still, Pertwee performs it with conviction, so it almost gets away with it. Less likely is the moment when, after having dynamited the entrance to the lift, the Doctor insists on going down alone as he doesn’t want to attract attention. Because obviously the explosion won’t be noticed in the least.
If there’s a problem, it’s that the motivations of the bad guys are never really sufficiently developed. Grover is the only really convincing conspirator – the other three are so obviously cold and miserable that you can’t understand how they came to be involved in such a scheme. But generally, the story wraps up in fine and exciting style, throwing in intriguing new concepts right to the end (Grover suiting up to fake space walk, for example). Overall, severely under-rated.
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#803 17 Mar 2009, 12:26 am
WhoBoy93
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Last On: 26 Jun 2009 5:02 am
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Once more, with the correct title!
Just in case there are any newbies, time for a quick recap. I've been spending most of the last six months watching, roughly, an episode a day in order from the very start. This is a thread about that epic quest. Every day I try to post my thoughts on whatever episode I've just sat through. I've been having quite a bit of fun. Some stories I've surprised myself by liking, others I've surprised myself by hating. Sometimes I tow the party line, sometimes I don't.
I'm joined in the journey by the great Ianzpotter, who's watching all the episodes too. I've never met Ian, but he has done my thread the honour of bringing his wise words to it.
If you want to see our opinions on the Hartnell years, here's the link to the old forum
http://p077.ezboard.com/fthedoctorwh...t=201&stop=218
And if you have a look at the Hartnell's bear in mind that they're quite perfunctory up until roughly the Sensorites, for me at least, after which point I began to get a bit more detailed...
Dunno if anyone else has told you this, but you should re-format everything into a blog.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnstone
DW was good. ST was s***.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minister of Chance
Two minutes to Belgium!
Can this be a new phrase for impeding disasters?
:-)
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#804 18 Mar 2009, 2:38 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoBoy93
Dunno if anyone else has told you this, but you should re-format everything into a blog.
I really should, I suppose...
Dorney
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#805 30 Mar 2009, 12:53 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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Following the suggestion:
The World of Dorney
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#806 31 Mar 2009, 9:52 pm
Incus
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Following the suggestion:
The World of Dorney
Thanks very much, Dorney.
A fascinating read. It has made the classic series for more accessible for me (someone who was largely unaware of events pre-2005).
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#807 31 Mar 2009, 10:38 pm
Benjamin Adams
Rubber Sole
Rocklin, California
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Re: Day by Day
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Not meaning to be priggish here, John -- but d'you reckon everyone whose posts you're reproducing over there would take kindly to it? I'm pretty sure I posted once or twice, and I have no issue with you doing so personally, but I'm keeping in mind the furore Stephen James Walker faced from a small group of vocal Torchwood fans when he quoted briefly from their public Livejournal pages in his last unofficial Torchwood guide. He had the right to do so, under Fair Use, but it wound up being more trouble than it was worth. In this case you're copying over both your original posts but also everyone's responses, completely intact, which seems worrisome.
xx
Ben
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http://www.gallifreybase.com/
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#808 1 Apr 2009, 1:35 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Adams
Not meaning to be priggish here, John -- but d'you reckon everyone whose posts you're reproducing over there would take kindly to it? I'm pretty sure I posted once or twice, and I have no issue with you doing so personally, but I'm keeping in mind the furore Stephen James Walker faced from a small group of vocal Torchwood fans when he quoted briefly from their public Livejournal pages in his last unofficial Torchwood guide. He had the right to do so, under Fair Use, but it wound up being more trouble than it was worth. In this case you're copying over both your original posts but also everyone's responses, completely intact, which seems worrisome.
xx
Ben
The thought crossed my mind. The problem is that I'm not sure there's much I can do about it. The discussion and debate have always been an important part of the thread (and in some cases directly influenced subsequent reviews), so they're hard to remove. But at the same time, I'm not sure it's possible to ask everybody directly.
I suppose I can easily edit something out if someone objects.
The Time Warrior
20 Jan 2009, 11:47 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 1:
There's something quietly subversive about the first episode of this story.
Generally speaking, the most successful opening installments follow a similar pattern. A perplexing, or at least mildly explained, situation is taking place. Odd stuff is happening. The Doctor investigates - around the end of the first episode, something happens that offers the semblance of an explanation. Carnival of Monsters is something of a template for this, but it also applies to most of the Dalek or Cyberman stories.
Time Warrior feels likes it going to go down this route - and then it just doesn't. Like Carnival of Monsters we appear to have two seperate, incompatible plot threads. An alien in the middle ages versus disappearing scientists in the modern day. All would suggest we're going to be kept guessing at how the two relate...
And then we're not. We're pretty much ten minutes in when it becomes clear what's happening in this story. The last line of the initial medieval sequence (Linx saying he will get help where it is available) tied in with the next (where a row of modern dress scientists work in the background) could not be more explicit. So given that, where's the hook?
Well, the hook is in quirkiness and characterisation. Very soon after the likeably urbane Stevens we gain the dry and erudite Lynx (or is it Linx? Can't remember...). The direct contrast with the immediately unpleasant and boorish Irongron offers a lot of enjoyment. Both are a touch unusual for a Who villain, one too thick and the other too disinterested, meaning both are pretty amusing. In deed, everything about this story is light and amusing. The Doctor seems at his wittiest here (albeit when we say that, we mean 'for the third Doctor'), Rubeish is oddball
without being annoying, and the sequences with Sarah Jane are pleasingly spikey. Much as Jo's early scenes in the Green Death seemed livilier than the traditional companion material, Sarah gets a lot to play with in her earliest scenes, coming over as feisty - almost self-consciously so, as if determined to prove herself strong - with a naive streak. As an opening appearance it is very assured, particularly in her no-nonsense response to time travel (ironically, the only bit where SJS doesn't really hit well is in the slightly unconvincing way the script actually gets her to enter the actual TARDIS). It's also hard not to feel that the banter enervates Pertwee somewhat.
All of this goes to show that the script isn't keeping us engaged through mystery, but an entertaining, playful quality. That's not to say that the plot is bad, it's enjoyable enough, but it takes second place to Holmes enjoying his characters and the use of language.
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#780 23 Jan 2009, 11:34 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 2:
After the quirky quality of the last episode, the feeling continues. There's a jokey, almost farcical quality to this episode.
Like the last episode, the Doctor takes an awfully long time to turn up in this one. He's briefly in the reprise, but the opening section of this story is entirely about Sarah. And boy does she grab it by the throat. Rich with dramatic irony, her confident breezing through an incredibly dangerous situation is one of the brightest scenes we've had in the series. The combination of her misplaced certainty and the villain's utter bemusement makes for a lot of fun.
And the use of misunderstandings and confusions as a comedic device continues through the story, though it's worth emphasising that Irongron's just as susceptible to this as the Doctor and Sarah. Letting Sarah run free proves to be a big mistake, and it is very much this that provides the farce element, with the Doctor and Sarah running in and out around the castle for the first ten minutes or so, causing chaos but all but ignored (particularly lovely is the Doctor popping on to the balcony to save Hal with a neatly dispatched arrow, seemingly unnoticed by everyone). The essence of farce is a story working on many different levels, where different characters have different levels of comprehension, and that's what we have here. Sarah's perpetual misjudgements maintain this throughout, keeping it fast, but also fun and amusing - and how different is she already, leading a raggedy bunch of soliders to attack the Doctor? Not something you can imagine Jo doing (to any degree), and showing how she is driving the plot more than the Doctor.
The Doctor is mainly establishing the premise of the story, rather than pushing the plot along - meeting the main alien enemy, finding out what he's up against. His side of the story is less exciting - although it does contain the most bizarre revelation of the series. Just throwing out the name of his home planet, casually, after 11 years is a really odd moment. It feels exactly like the sort of thing you'd see after it was a well-established element of the mythology, or something early on in the run. It's quite a big thing to say this far in.
The only real flaw is the rushed cliffhanger. For the rest of the time, it's hard not to be swept away by the sense of fun and the sparkling dialogue.
Dorney
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#781 24 Jan 2009, 5:27 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 3:
This episode does slightly suffer from the old sense that the third episode is where the plot has to be put on hold. Irongron's raid on Edward's castle seems like a bit of filler.
And whilst it sort of is, it also sort of isn't. There's a degree to which most stories have a central section where variations on a theme get run through, a series of complications and obstacles to overcome if you want to use the slightly trite descriptions of screenwriting courses. Whilst the sequence doesn't really drive the main story forward, it does work as a natural result of that story. It's the point where it's been going.
In deed, with hindsight it feels like it's exactly what the story needs. This is a story about two alien beings playing real life chess in the past. Linx's attack is exactly what the Doctor is going to do in response. It fits, it's a balance. It's easy to get swept up in the notion that every scene should advance the plot, but I don't think that's true. Things should change, certainly, but in a story like this where it is effectively a battle of wills between two combatants, you need a series of clashes between them. If it just went straight to the Doctor defeating Linx, then it would be a rubbish story.
There's excellent character work here. Linx himself is terrific, with all the smug superiority of someone dealing with people well beneath him. In deed, the fact that only the Doctor is a plausible threat to him makes him wonderfully laid back for a villain, casually dismissive and indifferent to the wiles of Irongron. Irongron gets increasingly stupid and cowardly the more we get to know him, and wonderfully self-deluded (his scene with the equally vapid Bloodaxe, playing off him like a medieval Dumb and Dumber, where he pretends he's well in control of Linx is a comic highlight). If there is a flaw with this story, it's that they're all three incredibly hard to dislike. Whereas in contrast, the goodies stronghold is populated entirely by the wet.
Still, all in all it remains rollicking good entertainment.
Dorney
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#782 24 Jan 2009, 11:27 pm
codywillis1
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South Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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I love The Time Warrior. "Yours is indeed a towering intellect". Bloodaxe's brain-dead hero-worship of Irongron is just one of many wonderfully delightful touches.
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"The McCoy era is the brilliant, magical, eternally under-rated, Indian summer of classic Who." - Hawksmoor
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#783 25 Jan 2009, 4:57 pm
Max K Wilkie
Time Lord
Sydney, Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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Dear Lord.
I've been re-reading some of your old reviews, Dorney, and I've only now just realised what an irritating berk I was at age 14...some of my posts earlier in this thread are mind-blowingly...err...berkish.
More to the point, I thought I'd let you know I'm still enjoying your witty and insightful reviews, which are still top-notch and, I think, the best around. And I'm still a berk, just slightly less irritating.
It's been ages since I've gone through the better Pertwee stories, I really must do it again. I remember Time Warrior being particularly good, indeed.
I'm now eagerly awaiting hilarious scorn upon your viewing of Monster of Peladon.
-Max
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Mind the gap.
The Next Doctor - 9/10
Planet of the Dead - 7/10
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#784 25 Jan 2009, 6:44 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Last On: Today 2:36 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 4:
OK, I'm going to have to admit it. I'm a little disappointed by this episode.
It's not actually bad, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't quite impact the way it should. It's probably the fact that it feels more like it's a third episode rather than a fourth. In deed, there's almost a clue to this in the cliffhanger resolution - it's almost identical to the resolution at the start of part three (villain about to kill Doctor, Sarah knocks the weapon away).
The story should be driving through to a conclusion at this point, but it instead concerns itself with minor little set pieces - The Doctor dressing as the android, Sarah getting roped in to work in the kitchens, the Doctor dodging bullets. They're all well put together and enjoyable (the latter in particular, a quirky and yet genuinely tense action sequence), but they're all about holding back the plot and stalling.
This is probably down to the story having shooting it's bolt too early. With Linx indisposed a minute or so in, the plot is essentially over (it's hard to see Irongron as any real threat to the Doctor - he's just too darn thick), so our heroes have to invent obstacles for themselves to keep it going. The various elements of what needs to be done to solve the day have been planned since the end of the last episode, and all of them work. This means that the episode is entirely about them getting around to doing them, or them taking a bit of time (most obviously with the scientists having to be sent back one at a time). It's all a little easy, so there's not masses of impact.
Still, it is performed with the same gusto and wit, and that is at least able to carry it through to some degree. The three central villains remain an enormous amount of fun. In deed, the story itself is comparitively light and simple - this one is all about the characterisation.
So, the verdict. A fine story, for the most part, albeit one that tails off slowly. A jolly romp, and fine entertainment. Basically recommended.
Dorney
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#785 25 Jan 2009, 6:48 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max K Wilkie
Dear Lord.
I've been re-reading some of your old reviews, Dorney, and I've only now just realised what an irritating berk I was at age 14...some of my posts earlier in this thread are mind-blowingly...err...berkish.
Were you? Oh, no worries. I've completely forgotten! Thanks for the nice comments this time!
Quote:
I'm now eagerly awaiting hilarious scorn upon your viewing of Monster of Peladon.
You know, I'm genuinely unsure how I'm going to react to that story. I know it a little better than a lot of stories this season, and I seem to remember being rather fond of it as a youth. Yet, I am aware of its less than stellar reputation.
Dorney
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#786 25 Jan 2009, 6:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Oh, and an afterthought. There will now certainly follow a short intermission. I'm off on tour again, going to Ireland this time, and have no idea what my net access will be like. However, I'm taking the computer and copies of the next four stories, so I will try to get something written up whilst I'm there, time permitting. It might just all turn up in a lump or something...
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#787 26 Jan 2009, 6:40 am
Phil W
one percent evil
Wellington
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Re: Day by Day
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Have a great time on the tour Dorney! Break a leg etc.
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 1:
There's something quietly subversive about the first episode of this story.
Generally speaking, the most successful opening installments follow a similar pattern. A perplexing, or at least mildly explained, situation is taking place. Odd stuff is happening. The Doctor investigates - around the end of the first episode, something happens that offers the semblance of an explanation. Carnival of Monsters is something of a template for this, but it also applies to most of the Dalek or Cyberman stories.
Time Warrior feels likes it going to go down this route - and then it just doesn't. Like Carnival of Monsters we appear to have two seperate, incompatible plot threads. An alien in the middle ages versus disappearing scientists in the modern day. All would suggest we're going to be kept guessing at how the two relate...
And then we're not. We're pretty much ten minutes in when it becomes clear what's happening in this story. The last line of the initial medieval sequence (Linx saying he will get help where it is available) tied in with the next (where a row of modern dress scientists work in the background) could not be more explicit. So given that, where's the hook?
Well, the hook is in quirkiness and characterisation. Very soon after the likeably urbane Stevens we gain the dry and erudite Lynx (or is it Linx? Can't remember...). The direct contrast with the immediately unpleasant and boorish Irongron offers a lot of enjoyment. Both are a touch unusual for a Who villain, one too thick and the other too disinterested, meaning both are pretty amusing. In deed, everything about this story is light and amusing. The Doctor seems at his wittiest here (albeit when we say that, we mean 'for the third Doctor'), Rubeish is oddball
without being annoying, and the sequences with Sarah Jane are pleasingly spikey. Much as Jo's early scenes in the Green Death seemed livilier than the traditional companion material, Sarah gets a lot to play with in her earliest scenes, coming over as feisty - almost self-consciously so, as if determined to prove herself strong - with a naive streak. As an opening appearance it is very assured, particularly in her no-nonsense response to time travel (ironically, the only bit where SJS doesn't really hit well is in the slightly unconvincing way the script actually gets her to enter the actual TARDIS). It's also hard not to feel that the banter enervates Pertwee somewhat.
All of this goes to show that the script isn't keeping us engaged through mystery, but an entertaining, playful quality. That's not to say that the plot is bad, it's enjoyable enough, but it takes second place to Holmes enjoying his characters and the use of language.
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#780 23 Jan 2009, 11:34 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 2:
After the quirky quality of the last episode, the feeling continues. There's a jokey, almost farcical quality to this episode.
Like the last episode, the Doctor takes an awfully long time to turn up in this one. He's briefly in the reprise, but the opening section of this story is entirely about Sarah. And boy does she grab it by the throat. Rich with dramatic irony, her confident breezing through an incredibly dangerous situation is one of the brightest scenes we've had in the series. The combination of her misplaced certainty and the villain's utter bemusement makes for a lot of fun.
And the use of misunderstandings and confusions as a comedic device continues through the story, though it's worth emphasising that Irongron's just as susceptible to this as the Doctor and Sarah. Letting Sarah run free proves to be a big mistake, and it is very much this that provides the farce element, with the Doctor and Sarah running in and out around the castle for the first ten minutes or so, causing chaos but all but ignored (particularly lovely is the Doctor popping on to the balcony to save Hal with a neatly dispatched arrow, seemingly unnoticed by everyone). The essence of farce is a story working on many different levels, where different characters have different levels of comprehension, and that's what we have here. Sarah's perpetual misjudgements maintain this throughout, keeping it fast, but also fun and amusing - and how different is she already, leading a raggedy bunch of soliders to attack the Doctor? Not something you can imagine Jo doing (to any degree), and showing how she is driving the plot more than the Doctor.
The Doctor is mainly establishing the premise of the story, rather than pushing the plot along - meeting the main alien enemy, finding out what he's up against. His side of the story is less exciting - although it does contain the most bizarre revelation of the series. Just throwing out the name of his home planet, casually, after 11 years is a really odd moment. It feels exactly like the sort of thing you'd see after it was a well-established element of the mythology, or something early on in the run. It's quite a big thing to say this far in.
The only real flaw is the rushed cliffhanger. For the rest of the time, it's hard not to be swept away by the sense of fun and the sparkling dialogue.
Dorney
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#781 24 Jan 2009, 5:27 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 3:
This episode does slightly suffer from the old sense that the third episode is where the plot has to be put on hold. Irongron's raid on Edward's castle seems like a bit of filler.
And whilst it sort of is, it also sort of isn't. There's a degree to which most stories have a central section where variations on a theme get run through, a series of complications and obstacles to overcome if you want to use the slightly trite descriptions of screenwriting courses. Whilst the sequence doesn't really drive the main story forward, it does work as a natural result of that story. It's the point where it's been going.
In deed, with hindsight it feels like it's exactly what the story needs. This is a story about two alien beings playing real life chess in the past. Linx's attack is exactly what the Doctor is going to do in response. It fits, it's a balance. It's easy to get swept up in the notion that every scene should advance the plot, but I don't think that's true. Things should change, certainly, but in a story like this where it is effectively a battle of wills between two combatants, you need a series of clashes between them. If it just went straight to the Doctor defeating Linx, then it would be a rubbish story.
There's excellent character work here. Linx himself is terrific, with all the smug superiority of someone dealing with people well beneath him. In deed, the fact that only the Doctor is a plausible threat to him makes him wonderfully laid back for a villain, casually dismissive and indifferent to the wiles of Irongron. Irongron gets increasingly stupid and cowardly the more we get to know him, and wonderfully self-deluded (his scene with the equally vapid Bloodaxe, playing off him like a medieval Dumb and Dumber, where he pretends he's well in control of Linx is a comic highlight). If there is a flaw with this story, it's that they're all three incredibly hard to dislike. Whereas in contrast, the goodies stronghold is populated entirely by the wet.
Still, all in all it remains rollicking good entertainment.
Dorney
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#782 24 Jan 2009, 11:27 pm
codywillis1
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South Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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I love The Time Warrior. "Yours is indeed a towering intellect". Bloodaxe's brain-dead hero-worship of Irongron is just one of many wonderfully delightful touches.
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"The McCoy era is the brilliant, magical, eternally under-rated, Indian summer of classic Who." - Hawksmoor
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#783 25 Jan 2009, 4:57 pm
Max K Wilkie
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Sydney, Australia
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Re: Day by Day
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Dear Lord.
I've been re-reading some of your old reviews, Dorney, and I've only now just realised what an irritating berk I was at age 14...some of my posts earlier in this thread are mind-blowingly...err...berkish.
More to the point, I thought I'd let you know I'm still enjoying your witty and insightful reviews, which are still top-notch and, I think, the best around. And I'm still a berk, just slightly less irritating.
It's been ages since I've gone through the better Pertwee stories, I really must do it again. I remember Time Warrior being particularly good, indeed.
I'm now eagerly awaiting hilarious scorn upon your viewing of Monster of Peladon.
-Max
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Mind the gap.
The Next Doctor - 9/10
Planet of the Dead - 7/10
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#784 25 Jan 2009, 6:44 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Warrior 4:
OK, I'm going to have to admit it. I'm a little disappointed by this episode.
It's not actually bad, don't get me wrong. It just doesn't quite impact the way it should. It's probably the fact that it feels more like it's a third episode rather than a fourth. In deed, there's almost a clue to this in the cliffhanger resolution - it's almost identical to the resolution at the start of part three (villain about to kill Doctor, Sarah knocks the weapon away).
The story should be driving through to a conclusion at this point, but it instead concerns itself with minor little set pieces - The Doctor dressing as the android, Sarah getting roped in to work in the kitchens, the Doctor dodging bullets. They're all well put together and enjoyable (the latter in particular, a quirky and yet genuinely tense action sequence), but they're all about holding back the plot and stalling.
This is probably down to the story having shooting it's bolt too early. With Linx indisposed a minute or so in, the plot is essentially over (it's hard to see Irongron as any real threat to the Doctor - he's just too darn thick), so our heroes have to invent obstacles for themselves to keep it going. The various elements of what needs to be done to solve the day have been planned since the end of the last episode, and all of them work. This means that the episode is entirely about them getting around to doing them, or them taking a bit of time (most obviously with the scientists having to be sent back one at a time). It's all a little easy, so there's not masses of impact.
Still, it is performed with the same gusto and wit, and that is at least able to carry it through to some degree. The three central villains remain an enormous amount of fun. In deed, the story itself is comparitively light and simple - this one is all about the characterisation.
So, the verdict. A fine story, for the most part, albeit one that tails off slowly. A jolly romp, and fine entertainment. Basically recommended.
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#785 25 Jan 2009, 6:48 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max K Wilkie
Dear Lord.
I've been re-reading some of your old reviews, Dorney, and I've only now just realised what an irritating berk I was at age 14...some of my posts earlier in this thread are mind-blowingly...err...berkish.
Were you? Oh, no worries. I've completely forgotten! Thanks for the nice comments this time!
Quote:
I'm now eagerly awaiting hilarious scorn upon your viewing of Monster of Peladon.
You know, I'm genuinely unsure how I'm going to react to that story. I know it a little better than a lot of stories this season, and I seem to remember being rather fond of it as a youth. Yet, I am aware of its less than stellar reputation.
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#786 25 Jan 2009, 6:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Oh, and an afterthought. There will now certainly follow a short intermission. I'm off on tour again, going to Ireland this time, and have no idea what my net access will be like. However, I'm taking the computer and copies of the next four stories, so I will try to get something written up whilst I'm there, time permitting. It might just all turn up in a lump or something...
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#787 26 Jan 2009, 6:40 am
Phil W
one percent evil
Wellington
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Re: Day by Day
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Have a great time on the tour Dorney! Break a leg etc.
The Green Death
9 Jan 2009, 1:40 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 1:
One of my major regrets in not being, ahem, quite as speedy with my rewatching as I'd once intended is that it becomes hard to really get a sense of the journey of the show. Getting through the first season or so was a really enlightening experience - the real sense of the first few stories as a genuine serial. If something was repetitive, you noticed. If someone left the show, you could see if you really missed them (and you really appeciate Hartnell so much more).
But sometimes it accentuates flaws. It dawned on me as I watched the first episode of this story that it's been ages since we've had a serial that actually looks good. Much as I may have liked the divine Carnival of Monsters, it's got a noticeably garish quality. There's something about The Green Death that just feels... well real, really. And it's a massive relief.
Of course, it's probably the juxtaposition. We've had six episodes of juvenile runaround in an unconvincing set, with everything desperately trying (and failing) to appear futuristic and just ending up looking cheap. The jarring and slightly false sense of quality that turns up pretty much the second that story has its sole outing onto film probably proves the point. But we're not dealing with ersatz quality here. This seems, so far, to be the real thing.
Film is so much more pleasing than the harshness of video. That doesn't inherently make anything better on it's own, obviously, but it helps. Watching the Metebelis 3 sequences in this story, it's hard not to think its predecessor would be so much more likeable if they'd had the money to shoot it all like this. The softness understandably takes the edge off the naff special effects aliens, and the lighting and sound do their very best to make the whole thing suitably eerie. There's an hilarious moment when the Doctor runs back into the TARDIS which is immediately attacked by about a dozen different things and weapons from a dozen different directions, but beyond that it's remarkably atmospheric. It's an example of the show realising it can't do something properly so trying to find a way around it. As opposed to either not realising, or hoping no-one notices.
The Doctor is largely absent with this little sub-plot for this episode, but this doesn't really matter. Partially this is down to the fact that, as Jo says, Prof. Jones is very much a younger version of him, and he fills a lot of the same plot function. But it's mainly down to the treatment of Jo. Again we have an example of the perspective that watching this story right up against Planet of the Daleks brings - Katy Manning is a revelation. Within the shifting of two episodes there's a real and obvious change and the character appears completely different.
I've not been against Jo, but when she's written with a bit of verve and a spikey quality, as she is here, you do spot what you've been missing. She's all personality, and there hasn't been much of that throughout her run. She's only been allowed to be generic. Still, at least she gets to shine sometimes, which is more than can be said of others.
The reality factor keeps playing in with the main storyline. The general plotline (an oil manufacturer and their nearby coal mine) is refereshingly every day after an endless stream of scientific establishments, military bases and universities in the Earthbound stories, and the environmental concerns are down to Earth (if you'll pardon the expression). And even the chauffeur as thug echoes a certainly 'gritty' quality as it's clearly influenced by Ian Hendry's similar role in Get Carter. Only the last few minutes betray that this isn't entirely going to be a relatively straightforward Doomwatch-esque tale of pollution. As it stands at the moment it's an intriguing hook that may or may not be successfully integrated into the main story - though I must confess, that the moment the adult tone is broken by Stevens pulling out a massive pair of comedy headphones, a little part of me was wishing it could have been something less overtly fantastical.
Because the general attitude and tone of the show gives this story a serious and mature feel. It makes you forgive the comedy bird's legs in the same way that Jaws makes you forgive the rubber shark. It feels like a children's show made with the same integrity and respect of an adult show. Edge of Darkness for the family, if you like. Very promising.
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#764 10 Jan 2009, 12:17 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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I must admit, I find the bit with Jo reading the newspaper and complaining about pollution etc whilst the Doctor natters on about Metebelis pretty excrutiating to watch. Maybe it's the obvious dialogue or the direction or Manning's overtly chirpy acting but the "Oh no!... They can't!... Criminal, absolutely criminal!... Don't they know the pollution that'll cause!" stuff sounds jarringly fake. I'm not sure why it sticks out for me but it's some of the worst acting by a companion in the era, by my reckoning. Manning seems stuck in panto mode for a lot of episode 1, though she is admittedly pretty good for the rest of it.
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#765 10 Jan 2009, 1:14 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
I must admit, I find the bit with Jo reading the newspaper and complaining about pollution etc whilst the Doctor natters on about Metebelis pretty excrutiating to watch. Maybe it's the obvious dialogue or the direction or Manning's overtly chirpy acting but the "Oh no!... They can't!... Criminal, absolutely criminal!... Don't they know the pollution that'll cause!" stuff sounds jarringly fake. I'm not sure why it sticks out for me but it's some of the worst acting by a companion in the era, by my reckoning. Manning seems stuck in panto mode for a lot of episode 1, though she is admittedly pretty good for the rest of it.
I see where you're coming from - the newspaper stuff is contrived, and it's a touch broad - but in context, and after six episodes of being generic on Spiridon it probably comes across an awful lot better!
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#766 10 Jan 2009, 11:21 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 2:
Interesting piece of construction, this episode. It's, on the surface, something of a makeweight episode. It's very clear quite early on that an awful lot of the episode is about the fallout from the cliffhanger resolution (in deed, Jo hasn't managed to get out of the mine by the time the end of the episode comes around) rather than driving an ongoing storyline. The forward motion of the story stops whilst it focuses on a subplot.
Now this could cause alarm bells for people who've been reading my witterings for a while. A lack of forward momentum is precisely what causes a story to fall apart and feel like padding. It doesn't matter whether that momentum is fast, and it doesn't matter whether it is relevant to the main storyline, as long as things are going somewhere. And to its credit, this episode maintains a sense of urgency to the sidestep, leaving it involving. There are a few issues - Dr Jones and the Doctor's abortive attempt to invade Global Chemicals is something of a non-starter (not least cos it's hard to imagine where they get a cherry picker if they can't find cutting equipment), though it does offer up some good character moments. Once again the air of 'realism' floats in the vague vacinity, and the villains are all remarkably believable. Stevens is coming across as a serious and urbane villain for a start, and their reaction to the Doctor raiding the plant is, if anything, understated. They all seem like real people rather than comic book style supervillians.
This does point to the one major flaw so far. It's all very well giving the whole thing an air of sobriety and shooting it like a proper drama, but that does mean that any time any of the more fantastical elements turn up they look ridiculous. They're so incongruous they jar. The headphones in episode one (if more archaic now than then) are a good case in point, as is the mysterious boss figure and the hypnosis all of which gestures towards the more traditional style of Who we're used to.
Anyway, I digress. As I said the episode is, on the surface, investigating a side alley (but with enough drive for this not to feel like a waste of our time). But then the characters suddenly stumble over the green goo and the maggots, and suddenly we see that it is part of the main plot line. In a neat bit of writing, the minor problem to be solved has led to the investigation, rather than the Doctor simply instigating it himself. Everything ties together well and leaves the episode feeling quite well put together.
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Last edited by Dorney; 10 Jan 2009 at 11:24 pm.
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#767 12 Jan 2009, 12:48 pm
Raveen
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Much as I may have liked the divine Carnival of Monsters, it's got a noticeably garish quality.
Thankyou so much, I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what about Carnival I don't like and garish is the word I've been failing to find all this time.
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#768 14 Jan 2009, 10:10 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 3:
The faintly jarring mix of weird 'sci-fi' style additions with quasi-realistic eco-drama that slightly marred the last episode is being to grow on me. Either that, or it's just judged a little more carefully this time. In many ways, it's becoming the icing on this particular cake. The odd combination of quirky, traditionalist sci-fi gubbins (such as possesion and hypnosis) combined with the mundane. It makes this feel like a Doctor Who version of Edge of Darkness. The Whoniverse impinging and insisting itself on the real world. That and the central premise is intriguing. The last episode ended with a great strange sequence as the Maggots arrive. Tying this to the strange hypnosis stuff and the green dead people in the episode seems impossible. One episode along and yes, it's fairly clear where the Maggots are coming from, and where the Green Death is coming from - but there are clear implications that there's yet more going on...
It's particularly noticeable with Stevens, who's fast becoming my favourite character. For the chief villain he retains a remarkable amount of realistic humanity. You can truly believe this guy could exist. His confrontation with the Brigadier feels like a scene we've seen played out in dozens of cop dramas and is all the better for it. The sequence where he forces a subordinate to commit suicide, yet is protesting to his Boss that there is no need is fantastic. As he sits down and places his head in hands when it is finally done, the story genuinely makes you feel for its bad guy, something I can't recall happening in a long time. It's fairly obvious that this story is a little more complex, a little greyer than usual. And it's not just limited to Stevens. Precisely what's going on is still unclear, as the motivations of characters like Elgin are not what we usually expect from characters in his position within the villainous empire.
Outside of all that, the story is continuing in a strong manner. It's not particularly fast moving, I'll admit, and the plot is slight, but the set pieces are genuinely tense and interesting (the escape from the mine here is nicely done), there's enough of a logical progression in the set pieces (and enough of them).
The episode ends with a dinner party that quickly becomes the main talking point of the episode. In itself, it's a little odd - the Brig and Jo suddenly doing themselves up all formal, all the laughing and joking seems an entirely strange response to what they've gone through in the last day (not least because one of the people they've met is apparently dying in hospital all the time). But it does work out extremely well in terms of how it illustrates character, and specifically Jo. Now, if I'm honest, I don't totally buy the Jo/Cliff romance. It seems to happen a little quickly and for no real reason - up to now, pretty much all the time they've spent together was in his lab, where she wrecked everything. He seems cross, and then suddenly they're pretty much sorted.
However, if you can buy the fact of them falling in love in the first place, the developing romance is well handled. The faint combination of embarassment and enthusiasm is played perfectly, but even better is the Doctor's obvious jealousy and sabotage. A beautifully judged moment of actual character interaction, it really rounds the episode off perfectly.
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#769 17 Jan 2009, 2:46 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 4:
It's traditionally believed that episode four is the point where the momentum of a six parter begins to dry up. Most stories are ending at this point, this is the episode where new things need to be fed in if the story is to continue successfully. And The Green Death does manage to achieve this quite effectively.
Now there's a degree to which it has it slightly easy in this regard. The first three episodes don't entirely have much story going on in them, being largely based around the set up and resolution of one major set piece - Jo getting trapped down the mine. By providing enough obstacles this has managed to feed a good few episodes worth of material, so in a very real sense episode four is where the story proper has to kick in.
And so it does. This episode is all about escalation. What had started out as a fairly low key, if deadly, threat is now being built into a major problem. The sequences of the maggots forcing themselves out of the ground are generally well done (even if the models are, bizarrely, more convincing than the real maggots shot against miniature sets) and genuinely a little disturbing. Slowly something that seemed initially beneath UNIT is moving towards crisis point. This ramps up the excitement and anticipation for the closing episodes.
There's also the arrival of Mike Yates as a spy. It's only when you watch the series in sequence that you get a hint to the true impact of this - he's been pretty much gone for an entire year, so you've all but forgotten he exists. But it certainly is a good way to use a character who's been borderline redundant since the beginning, more so with the TARDIS' ability to travel removed. Again, it gives the story a little extra kick, a little extra mystery. You wonder where this new element is going to lead the story and that hooks you in again at the point where you need something new to keep you going, the element of surprise.
And of course the big kicker is the climactic revelation of the boss' identity as the computer. Now, this one I'm not entirely sure about. The low key sci-fantasy of the first three episodes has worked rather well played against a comparitively naturalistic backdrop. The evil computer is a concept that could push the delicate balancing act over. At the same time, the fact that it is a computer rather than an alien is something of a relief, as it does at least fit in with the quasi-realistic milieu. Obviously, it's hard to judge at this point, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
Beyond that, there are only a few points to note - I'm not totally convinced by the Doctor's various disguises. The charlady outfit is a kind of broad joke that feels slightly out of place with the generally serious tone of the rest of the story. And the Milkman is flat wrong - Pertwee plays it as a comedy caricature so it looks fake. It's hard to see how the guard buys it. It's hard to mind either of them too much in context though.
Still good.
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#770 18 Jan 2009, 9:32 am
Doc Phibes
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The Isle Of Manhattan
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Beyond that, there are only a few points to note - I'm not totally convinced by the Doctor's various disguises. The charlady outfit is a kind of broad joke that feels slightly out of place with the generally serious tone of the rest of the story. And the Milkman is flat wrong - Pertwee plays it as a comedy caricature so it looks fake. It's hard to see how the guard buys it. It's hard to mind either of them too much in context though.
Pertwee was, what, 1.91m tall? A 6'3" cleaning lady? Personally, I found the babbling old Milkman faaar more believable. Loved 'em both though. I wish they had let Pertwee do more disguise bits, at least one or two a season. But, I was brought up on Mel Brooks and High Anxiety, where I learned the best way to get past security is not to be anonymous, but an extremely annoying caricature.
I'm enjoying the reviews. Keep 'em coming. Oh, and The B.O.S.S. is the best! Love him.
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"Ohh! I'm thick! Look at me! I'm old and thick! Head's too full of stuff! I need a bigger head!"
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delgadofan:
Delgs in full f***-off-I'm-The-Daddy-Now guise, lording it up with a fat cigar, a Chauffeur-driven limo and King Crimson on the tape-deck. Coolness does not drop much lower in temperature, ladies and gentlemen.
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#771 18 Jan 2009, 11:09 am
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes
Pertwee was, what, 1.91m tall? A 6'3" cleaning lady? Personally, I found the babbling old Milkman faaar more believable. Loved 'em both though. I wish they had let Pertwee do more disguise bits, at least one or two a season. But, I was brought up on Mel Brooks and High Anxiety, where I learned the best way to get past security is not to be anonymous, but an extremely annoying caricature.
It's hard not to like the comedy milkman to a degree, I'll confess. I think, like McCoy, Pertwee is a far more interesting comic actor than a straight man. But if I think my problem was best summed up by a review I saw recently that said it's clearly not the Doctor playing the milkman, it's Pertwee. Whilst Pertwee is undeniably brilliant at those bits, it feels somewhat alien to the fairly straight laced 3rd Doctor.
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#772 18 Jan 2009, 12:20 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 5:
If there is a flaw with this episode, it's the fact that after part 4 has gone to such lengths to escalate the situation, part 5 doesn't entirely go with the momentum. The level of concern and activity still seems about the same as in the previous four episodes. The ideal reaction would be a sense of the situation getting critically out of control. But it stalls slightly. The helicopter blowing a couple of things up seems a minor league stopgap solution at best, and the lightning fast possession and recovery of Yates is something you'd expect to find a bit earlier, rather than when the story should be building.
These are minor quibbles though, as the story is still pretty darn good. BOSS is, so far, a fantastic creation. Super-powered megalomaniac computers are ten a penny in sci-fi, but BOSS manages to transcend the mediocrity of his genre by entertaining a very dry wit. None of the bland booming monosyllables of WOTAN here, this evil computer has a personality.
And it's also a neat little trick that his main aim is small - success for Global Chemicals. This again means that the story comfortably straddles the realistic and the fantastical. Now I've read stuff that makes me think this is all going to go to pot in the final episode, but for the moment it works ok.
Elsewhere, the story is having to stall, somewhat. The Doctor nearly escapes BOSS, then gets captured to no end, and escapes again. The bad guys discover Mike's a spy, brainwash him for about a minute (and the sequence when he reappears at the Nuthutch is really strangely done, it has to be said) and then discover he's a spy again (though, admittedly, in one of the great sub-genre of cool cliffhangers - like Ambassadors 2, one that sounds rubbish when written down, but kind of works on the telly). Further subclause on that is that the loss of Elgin (due to actor illness) sort of works and also doesn't. His vanishing from the plot is nicely enigmatic, as if he's been dealt with and shoved out of the way, and you can't help but feel it works better than if he had taken the scenes of Roy Skelton's replacement character of Jones, which would be almost desultory. The Elgin figure barely appears in this episode (which would have been his last) and that would have left it feeling like the character drifts off. As it stands, he's removed from the story when he's still making an impact, which is a stronger exit. Now, Jones doesn't really impact in this episode as a result, and is slightly misjudged (it makes little sense for him to be a member of the management we haven't seen - surely generic guard would have felt more plausible?). But overall, I think it works remarkably well.
Anyway, back to the stalling. It's at its clearest with Cliff. Having discovered the cure, he now has to be kept unconscious because revealing it would start the end of the story too soon. Still, it's all done enjoyable enough, and with enough verve and character you don't mind.
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#773 19 Jan 2009, 8:22 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 6:
There's something difficult with reviewing this episode. It really shouldn't work. But somehow it does.
An awful lot of things are wrong with the resolution. Firstly, the incredibly convenient revelation that Cliff Jones' fungus is fatal to the maggots is... well, absurdly convenient. Not just in the fact, but also in the discovery (when one maggot just pops along to eat some at exactly the right point). Furthermore, the bizarre way that even despite this, it takes a few more deductive leaps before figuring out that this might also heal people victimised by the titular disease itself (and incidentally - what happened to the thuggish chauffeur chap? We assume he's dead, but are never really told, which is a bit wimpy, surely. Still, at least it makes Elgin's disappearance less of a problem when he's not the only one). And the magical healing properties of the blue ctystal go well beyond convenience into full on deus ex machina.
In fact, there are other moments of remarkable convenience. At this point, you do begin to wonder what qualifications are required to get a job as a guard at Global Chemicals, given how ridiculously easy Mike's escape from their clutches is. At least the Doctor's break in makes a bit more sense, though again you have to wonder how much thought BOSS put into his plans, because he's got no real reason to hypnotise his subjects again. All he does is hand himself defeat on a plate.
There's also the fact that the giant maggot plot and the mental computer plot never really intersect. This means that the plot of this episode largely consists of the Doctor switching off one plotline, before rushing away to switch off the other. The cliche of a six parter as a four parter combined with a related two parter is clearly realised here.
And yet it all sort of works. When I say 'all', I'm fairly obviously discarding the giant fly (which is more about the design of the model than anything else) and the dodgy moments of CSO, not least because if you can't suspend your disbelief for them, you've no business watching Who anyway. The combination of a relatively straightforward, heightened reality thriller tone to the story with a commited cast means that the messier bits work a bit better than they should. Because, of course, real life is messy. The two plot lines don't tie up particularly neatly... but they do tie up.
The resolutions being low key work as well. You can't really have a big ending to these essentially small (well, smaller) stories. The maggots being defeated by nature is entirely appropriate, as is resolving the BOSS storyline by appealing to Stevens - for once, a villain's sudden change of attitude at the last second is entirely apt, because Stevens has been pitched throughout as a genuine human being, so his attack of conscience isn't an absurd stretch - emphasised by the little tear on his cheek as the room is about to explode. Indeed, the sequence of BOSS' destruction is one of the most beautifully put together scenes I've seen in this show. The psychedelic colouring combined with the FX and strong performances from the two central performers give this a bigger impact than the subsequent explosion.
Though of course, that isn't really the end. Finally we reach a sequence that seems now to be one of the most influential in the history of the show - Jo's departure. I say influential because it's clearly a major contributor to the closing sequences of the last three series of the current show - the departures of Rose, Martha and Donna, and the lonely Doctor. But, if I'm honest, it does slightly show those others up. Not that they're bad, don't get me wrong. But the way all the emotion of the final scenes is underplayed means it has far more impact and subtlety than it's new series brethren. The sequence is generally expertly played (though one can't help but feel sorry for Richard Franklin, who's trying desperately to squeeze in everything the script isn't giving him an actual chance to say), particularly by Pertwee, and has a hauntingly memorable quality. A pretty damn fine conclusion to a pretty damn fine story.
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#774 20 Jan 2009, 12:19 am
Phil W
one percent evil
Wellington
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Re: Day by Day
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Hurray! I've always been a fan of The Green Death, at least in part because it was one of the very first DW stories I ever saw as a child (I think I had seen Planet of Evil, Revenge of the Cybermen, Pyramids of Mars and The Seeds of Doom, all of which hooked me on the show, so the Pertwee must have been a repeat at some point in the mid 1970s here in NZ). But I've always been happy that it is a good story too (for example I think it is comfortably better than the Sea Devils, which itself isn't bad).
As always it is fascinating to read you reviews, Dorney. You drop hints that you aren't so familiar with this one, though, or have I inferred something incorrectly?
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#775 20 Jan 2009, 10:16 am
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The Green Death 6:
There's something difficult with reviewing this episode. It really shouldn't work. But somehow it does.
An awful lot of things are wrong with the resolution. Firstly, the incredibly convenient revelation that Cliff Jones' fungus is fatal to the maggots is... well, absurdly convenient.
Real life is like that, though. Witness penicillin. Serendipity existed before Doctor Who.
I find it more absurd that some/most of the Doctor's victories have to be so laborious and without good luck. He really does live in a flippin' depressing universe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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Last edited by AlMiles; 20 Jan 2009 at 10:46 am.
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#776 20 Jan 2009, 12:36 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil W
As always it is fascinating to read you reviews, Dorney. You drop hints that you aren't so familiar with this one, though, or have I inferred something incorrectly?
No, that's right. Given things like personal taste and availability, there are some stories I've simply not watched as often as others. In a few cases, of which I think the Green Death is one and Daemons was certainly another, I deliberately didn't rewatch them after a point as I knew I was doing this.
Certainly, there are a few coming up that I am very wobbly on - Revenge of the Cybermen, for example, and Planet of Evil are both pretty much blank slates to me, and I very much look forward to rediscovering them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Real life is like that, though. Witness penicillin. Serendipity existed before Doctor Who.
Whilst that's undeniably true, you reach the problem that drama isn't reality. There are rarely well constructed stories, or proper endings. Real life has to be shaped into a dramatic form. And an ending that relies on luck is less satisfying than one that doesn't.
(Actually, to clarify that a touch - luck itself isn't a problem. For example, the cure for the Ice Warrior spores in Seeds of Death is found in a similarly chance way... but because the cure's something incredibly easy to come across, it feels less of a problem. Here it's the way it's almost double or treble the convenience. Jo just happens to knock fungus onto the slides. A rare fungus that is pretty much impossible to find anywhere in the UK apart from this one house. And so on... That's not just lucky, that's incredibly lucky.)
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#777 20 Jan 2009, 1:06 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Well, yeah - that's pretty much the definiton of "serendipity"!
I don't find it too pat when it happens a few times in 800-odd episodes. Some shows are like that every single week...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#778 20 Jan 2009, 1:47 pm
Tiger
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London
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Re: Day by Day
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Thanks for your reviews Dorney, always informative and they give an interesting slant on stories I either liked or disliked making me rethink my views on some of them.
You've confirmed my views on Frontier in Space though. Rather over rated given that its one hop from a cell to another with very little actual story.
It will be interesting when you get to the end of the Pertwee era to get to your views on it as a whole. Its suffered from the 'Pertwee backlash' conception since the early 90s. Whether its still suffering from that (and if it is, is it deservedly so) is an interesting subject, but having wathced the show in order, it will be interesting to get your view whether the Pertwee era now deserves a re-appraisal and whether it is superior or inferior to the show in the 60s. Its all a matter of taste though of course......
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 1:
One of my major regrets in not being, ahem, quite as speedy with my rewatching as I'd once intended is that it becomes hard to really get a sense of the journey of the show. Getting through the first season or so was a really enlightening experience - the real sense of the first few stories as a genuine serial. If something was repetitive, you noticed. If someone left the show, you could see if you really missed them (and you really appeciate Hartnell so much more).
But sometimes it accentuates flaws. It dawned on me as I watched the first episode of this story that it's been ages since we've had a serial that actually looks good. Much as I may have liked the divine Carnival of Monsters, it's got a noticeably garish quality. There's something about The Green Death that just feels... well real, really. And it's a massive relief.
Of course, it's probably the juxtaposition. We've had six episodes of juvenile runaround in an unconvincing set, with everything desperately trying (and failing) to appear futuristic and just ending up looking cheap. The jarring and slightly false sense of quality that turns up pretty much the second that story has its sole outing onto film probably proves the point. But we're not dealing with ersatz quality here. This seems, so far, to be the real thing.
Film is so much more pleasing than the harshness of video. That doesn't inherently make anything better on it's own, obviously, but it helps. Watching the Metebelis 3 sequences in this story, it's hard not to think its predecessor would be so much more likeable if they'd had the money to shoot it all like this. The softness understandably takes the edge off the naff special effects aliens, and the lighting and sound do their very best to make the whole thing suitably eerie. There's an hilarious moment when the Doctor runs back into the TARDIS which is immediately attacked by about a dozen different things and weapons from a dozen different directions, but beyond that it's remarkably atmospheric. It's an example of the show realising it can't do something properly so trying to find a way around it. As opposed to either not realising, or hoping no-one notices.
The Doctor is largely absent with this little sub-plot for this episode, but this doesn't really matter. Partially this is down to the fact that, as Jo says, Prof. Jones is very much a younger version of him, and he fills a lot of the same plot function. But it's mainly down to the treatment of Jo. Again we have an example of the perspective that watching this story right up against Planet of the Daleks brings - Katy Manning is a revelation. Within the shifting of two episodes there's a real and obvious change and the character appears completely different.
I've not been against Jo, but when she's written with a bit of verve and a spikey quality, as she is here, you do spot what you've been missing. She's all personality, and there hasn't been much of that throughout her run. She's only been allowed to be generic. Still, at least she gets to shine sometimes, which is more than can be said of others.
The reality factor keeps playing in with the main storyline. The general plotline (an oil manufacturer and their nearby coal mine) is refereshingly every day after an endless stream of scientific establishments, military bases and universities in the Earthbound stories, and the environmental concerns are down to Earth (if you'll pardon the expression). And even the chauffeur as thug echoes a certainly 'gritty' quality as it's clearly influenced by Ian Hendry's similar role in Get Carter. Only the last few minutes betray that this isn't entirely going to be a relatively straightforward Doomwatch-esque tale of pollution. As it stands at the moment it's an intriguing hook that may or may not be successfully integrated into the main story - though I must confess, that the moment the adult tone is broken by Stevens pulling out a massive pair of comedy headphones, a little part of me was wishing it could have been something less overtly fantastical.
Because the general attitude and tone of the show gives this story a serious and mature feel. It makes you forgive the comedy bird's legs in the same way that Jaws makes you forgive the rubber shark. It feels like a children's show made with the same integrity and respect of an adult show. Edge of Darkness for the family, if you like. Very promising.
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#764 10 Jan 2009, 12:17 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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I must admit, I find the bit with Jo reading the newspaper and complaining about pollution etc whilst the Doctor natters on about Metebelis pretty excrutiating to watch. Maybe it's the obvious dialogue or the direction or Manning's overtly chirpy acting but the "Oh no!... They can't!... Criminal, absolutely criminal!... Don't they know the pollution that'll cause!" stuff sounds jarringly fake. I'm not sure why it sticks out for me but it's some of the worst acting by a companion in the era, by my reckoning. Manning seems stuck in panto mode for a lot of episode 1, though she is admittedly pretty good for the rest of it.
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#765 10 Jan 2009, 1:14 am
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
I must admit, I find the bit with Jo reading the newspaper and complaining about pollution etc whilst the Doctor natters on about Metebelis pretty excrutiating to watch. Maybe it's the obvious dialogue or the direction or Manning's overtly chirpy acting but the "Oh no!... They can't!... Criminal, absolutely criminal!... Don't they know the pollution that'll cause!" stuff sounds jarringly fake. I'm not sure why it sticks out for me but it's some of the worst acting by a companion in the era, by my reckoning. Manning seems stuck in panto mode for a lot of episode 1, though she is admittedly pretty good for the rest of it.
I see where you're coming from - the newspaper stuff is contrived, and it's a touch broad - but in context, and after six episodes of being generic on Spiridon it probably comes across an awful lot better!
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#766 10 Jan 2009, 11:21 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 2:
Interesting piece of construction, this episode. It's, on the surface, something of a makeweight episode. It's very clear quite early on that an awful lot of the episode is about the fallout from the cliffhanger resolution (in deed, Jo hasn't managed to get out of the mine by the time the end of the episode comes around) rather than driving an ongoing storyline. The forward motion of the story stops whilst it focuses on a subplot.
Now this could cause alarm bells for people who've been reading my witterings for a while. A lack of forward momentum is precisely what causes a story to fall apart and feel like padding. It doesn't matter whether that momentum is fast, and it doesn't matter whether it is relevant to the main storyline, as long as things are going somewhere. And to its credit, this episode maintains a sense of urgency to the sidestep, leaving it involving. There are a few issues - Dr Jones and the Doctor's abortive attempt to invade Global Chemicals is something of a non-starter (not least cos it's hard to imagine where they get a cherry picker if they can't find cutting equipment), though it does offer up some good character moments. Once again the air of 'realism' floats in the vague vacinity, and the villains are all remarkably believable. Stevens is coming across as a serious and urbane villain for a start, and their reaction to the Doctor raiding the plant is, if anything, understated. They all seem like real people rather than comic book style supervillians.
This does point to the one major flaw so far. It's all very well giving the whole thing an air of sobriety and shooting it like a proper drama, but that does mean that any time any of the more fantastical elements turn up they look ridiculous. They're so incongruous they jar. The headphones in episode one (if more archaic now than then) are a good case in point, as is the mysterious boss figure and the hypnosis all of which gestures towards the more traditional style of Who we're used to.
Anyway, I digress. As I said the episode is, on the surface, investigating a side alley (but with enough drive for this not to feel like a waste of our time). But then the characters suddenly stumble over the green goo and the maggots, and suddenly we see that it is part of the main plot line. In a neat bit of writing, the minor problem to be solved has led to the investigation, rather than the Doctor simply instigating it himself. Everything ties together well and leaves the episode feeling quite well put together.
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Last edited by Dorney; 10 Jan 2009 at 11:24 pm.
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#767 12 Jan 2009, 12:48 pm
Raveen
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Much as I may have liked the divine Carnival of Monsters, it's got a noticeably garish quality.
Thankyou so much, I've been trying to put my finger on exactly what about Carnival I don't like and garish is the word I've been failing to find all this time.
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#768 14 Jan 2009, 10:10 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 3:
The faintly jarring mix of weird 'sci-fi' style additions with quasi-realistic eco-drama that slightly marred the last episode is being to grow on me. Either that, or it's just judged a little more carefully this time. In many ways, it's becoming the icing on this particular cake. The odd combination of quirky, traditionalist sci-fi gubbins (such as possesion and hypnosis) combined with the mundane. It makes this feel like a Doctor Who version of Edge of Darkness. The Whoniverse impinging and insisting itself on the real world. That and the central premise is intriguing. The last episode ended with a great strange sequence as the Maggots arrive. Tying this to the strange hypnosis stuff and the green dead people in the episode seems impossible. One episode along and yes, it's fairly clear where the Maggots are coming from, and where the Green Death is coming from - but there are clear implications that there's yet more going on...
It's particularly noticeable with Stevens, who's fast becoming my favourite character. For the chief villain he retains a remarkable amount of realistic humanity. You can truly believe this guy could exist. His confrontation with the Brigadier feels like a scene we've seen played out in dozens of cop dramas and is all the better for it. The sequence where he forces a subordinate to commit suicide, yet is protesting to his Boss that there is no need is fantastic. As he sits down and places his head in hands when it is finally done, the story genuinely makes you feel for its bad guy, something I can't recall happening in a long time. It's fairly obvious that this story is a little more complex, a little greyer than usual. And it's not just limited to Stevens. Precisely what's going on is still unclear, as the motivations of characters like Elgin are not what we usually expect from characters in his position within the villainous empire.
Outside of all that, the story is continuing in a strong manner. It's not particularly fast moving, I'll admit, and the plot is slight, but the set pieces are genuinely tense and interesting (the escape from the mine here is nicely done), there's enough of a logical progression in the set pieces (and enough of them).
The episode ends with a dinner party that quickly becomes the main talking point of the episode. In itself, it's a little odd - the Brig and Jo suddenly doing themselves up all formal, all the laughing and joking seems an entirely strange response to what they've gone through in the last day (not least because one of the people they've met is apparently dying in hospital all the time). But it does work out extremely well in terms of how it illustrates character, and specifically Jo. Now, if I'm honest, I don't totally buy the Jo/Cliff romance. It seems to happen a little quickly and for no real reason - up to now, pretty much all the time they've spent together was in his lab, where she wrecked everything. He seems cross, and then suddenly they're pretty much sorted.
However, if you can buy the fact of them falling in love in the first place, the developing romance is well handled. The faint combination of embarassment and enthusiasm is played perfectly, but even better is the Doctor's obvious jealousy and sabotage. A beautifully judged moment of actual character interaction, it really rounds the episode off perfectly.
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#769 17 Jan 2009, 2:46 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 4:
It's traditionally believed that episode four is the point where the momentum of a six parter begins to dry up. Most stories are ending at this point, this is the episode where new things need to be fed in if the story is to continue successfully. And The Green Death does manage to achieve this quite effectively.
Now there's a degree to which it has it slightly easy in this regard. The first three episodes don't entirely have much story going on in them, being largely based around the set up and resolution of one major set piece - Jo getting trapped down the mine. By providing enough obstacles this has managed to feed a good few episodes worth of material, so in a very real sense episode four is where the story proper has to kick in.
And so it does. This episode is all about escalation. What had started out as a fairly low key, if deadly, threat is now being built into a major problem. The sequences of the maggots forcing themselves out of the ground are generally well done (even if the models are, bizarrely, more convincing than the real maggots shot against miniature sets) and genuinely a little disturbing. Slowly something that seemed initially beneath UNIT is moving towards crisis point. This ramps up the excitement and anticipation for the closing episodes.
There's also the arrival of Mike Yates as a spy. It's only when you watch the series in sequence that you get a hint to the true impact of this - he's been pretty much gone for an entire year, so you've all but forgotten he exists. But it certainly is a good way to use a character who's been borderline redundant since the beginning, more so with the TARDIS' ability to travel removed. Again, it gives the story a little extra kick, a little extra mystery. You wonder where this new element is going to lead the story and that hooks you in again at the point where you need something new to keep you going, the element of surprise.
And of course the big kicker is the climactic revelation of the boss' identity as the computer. Now, this one I'm not entirely sure about. The low key sci-fantasy of the first three episodes has worked rather well played against a comparitively naturalistic backdrop. The evil computer is a concept that could push the delicate balancing act over. At the same time, the fact that it is a computer rather than an alien is something of a relief, as it does at least fit in with the quasi-realistic milieu. Obviously, it's hard to judge at this point, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
Beyond that, there are only a few points to note - I'm not totally convinced by the Doctor's various disguises. The charlady outfit is a kind of broad joke that feels slightly out of place with the generally serious tone of the rest of the story. And the Milkman is flat wrong - Pertwee plays it as a comedy caricature so it looks fake. It's hard to see how the guard buys it. It's hard to mind either of them too much in context though.
Still good.
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#770 18 Jan 2009, 9:32 am
Doc Phibes
Time Lord
The Isle Of Manhattan
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Beyond that, there are only a few points to note - I'm not totally convinced by the Doctor's various disguises. The charlady outfit is a kind of broad joke that feels slightly out of place with the generally serious tone of the rest of the story. And the Milkman is flat wrong - Pertwee plays it as a comedy caricature so it looks fake. It's hard to see how the guard buys it. It's hard to mind either of them too much in context though.
Pertwee was, what, 1.91m tall? A 6'3" cleaning lady? Personally, I found the babbling old Milkman faaar more believable. Loved 'em both though. I wish they had let Pertwee do more disguise bits, at least one or two a season. But, I was brought up on Mel Brooks and High Anxiety, where I learned the best way to get past security is not to be anonymous, but an extremely annoying caricature.
I'm enjoying the reviews. Keep 'em coming. Oh, and The B.O.S.S. is the best! Love him.
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#771 18 Jan 2009, 11:09 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes
Pertwee was, what, 1.91m tall? A 6'3" cleaning lady? Personally, I found the babbling old Milkman faaar more believable. Loved 'em both though. I wish they had let Pertwee do more disguise bits, at least one or two a season. But, I was brought up on Mel Brooks and High Anxiety, where I learned the best way to get past security is not to be anonymous, but an extremely annoying caricature.
It's hard not to like the comedy milkman to a degree, I'll confess. I think, like McCoy, Pertwee is a far more interesting comic actor than a straight man. But if I think my problem was best summed up by a review I saw recently that said it's clearly not the Doctor playing the milkman, it's Pertwee. Whilst Pertwee is undeniably brilliant at those bits, it feels somewhat alien to the fairly straight laced 3rd Doctor.
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#772 18 Jan 2009, 12:20 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 5:
If there is a flaw with this episode, it's the fact that after part 4 has gone to such lengths to escalate the situation, part 5 doesn't entirely go with the momentum. The level of concern and activity still seems about the same as in the previous four episodes. The ideal reaction would be a sense of the situation getting critically out of control. But it stalls slightly. The helicopter blowing a couple of things up seems a minor league stopgap solution at best, and the lightning fast possession and recovery of Yates is something you'd expect to find a bit earlier, rather than when the story should be building.
These are minor quibbles though, as the story is still pretty darn good. BOSS is, so far, a fantastic creation. Super-powered megalomaniac computers are ten a penny in sci-fi, but BOSS manages to transcend the mediocrity of his genre by entertaining a very dry wit. None of the bland booming monosyllables of WOTAN here, this evil computer has a personality.
And it's also a neat little trick that his main aim is small - success for Global Chemicals. This again means that the story comfortably straddles the realistic and the fantastical. Now I've read stuff that makes me think this is all going to go to pot in the final episode, but for the moment it works ok.
Elsewhere, the story is having to stall, somewhat. The Doctor nearly escapes BOSS, then gets captured to no end, and escapes again. The bad guys discover Mike's a spy, brainwash him for about a minute (and the sequence when he reappears at the Nuthutch is really strangely done, it has to be said) and then discover he's a spy again (though, admittedly, in one of the great sub-genre of cool cliffhangers - like Ambassadors 2, one that sounds rubbish when written down, but kind of works on the telly). Further subclause on that is that the loss of Elgin (due to actor illness) sort of works and also doesn't. His vanishing from the plot is nicely enigmatic, as if he's been dealt with and shoved out of the way, and you can't help but feel it works better than if he had taken the scenes of Roy Skelton's replacement character of Jones, which would be almost desultory. The Elgin figure barely appears in this episode (which would have been his last) and that would have left it feeling like the character drifts off. As it stands, he's removed from the story when he's still making an impact, which is a stronger exit. Now, Jones doesn't really impact in this episode as a result, and is slightly misjudged (it makes little sense for him to be a member of the management we haven't seen - surely generic guard would have felt more plausible?). But overall, I think it works remarkably well.
Anyway, back to the stalling. It's at its clearest with Cliff. Having discovered the cure, he now has to be kept unconscious because revealing it would start the end of the story too soon. Still, it's all done enjoyable enough, and with enough verve and character you don't mind.
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#773 19 Jan 2009, 8:22 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Green Death 6:
There's something difficult with reviewing this episode. It really shouldn't work. But somehow it does.
An awful lot of things are wrong with the resolution. Firstly, the incredibly convenient revelation that Cliff Jones' fungus is fatal to the maggots is... well, absurdly convenient. Not just in the fact, but also in the discovery (when one maggot just pops along to eat some at exactly the right point). Furthermore, the bizarre way that even despite this, it takes a few more deductive leaps before figuring out that this might also heal people victimised by the titular disease itself (and incidentally - what happened to the thuggish chauffeur chap? We assume he's dead, but are never really told, which is a bit wimpy, surely. Still, at least it makes Elgin's disappearance less of a problem when he's not the only one). And the magical healing properties of the blue ctystal go well beyond convenience into full on deus ex machina.
In fact, there are other moments of remarkable convenience. At this point, you do begin to wonder what qualifications are required to get a job as a guard at Global Chemicals, given how ridiculously easy Mike's escape from their clutches is. At least the Doctor's break in makes a bit more sense, though again you have to wonder how much thought BOSS put into his plans, because he's got no real reason to hypnotise his subjects again. All he does is hand himself defeat on a plate.
There's also the fact that the giant maggot plot and the mental computer plot never really intersect. This means that the plot of this episode largely consists of the Doctor switching off one plotline, before rushing away to switch off the other. The cliche of a six parter as a four parter combined with a related two parter is clearly realised here.
And yet it all sort of works. When I say 'all', I'm fairly obviously discarding the giant fly (which is more about the design of the model than anything else) and the dodgy moments of CSO, not least because if you can't suspend your disbelief for them, you've no business watching Who anyway. The combination of a relatively straightforward, heightened reality thriller tone to the story with a commited cast means that the messier bits work a bit better than they should. Because, of course, real life is messy. The two plot lines don't tie up particularly neatly... but they do tie up.
The resolutions being low key work as well. You can't really have a big ending to these essentially small (well, smaller) stories. The maggots being defeated by nature is entirely appropriate, as is resolving the BOSS storyline by appealing to Stevens - for once, a villain's sudden change of attitude at the last second is entirely apt, because Stevens has been pitched throughout as a genuine human being, so his attack of conscience isn't an absurd stretch - emphasised by the little tear on his cheek as the room is about to explode. Indeed, the sequence of BOSS' destruction is one of the most beautifully put together scenes I've seen in this show. The psychedelic colouring combined with the FX and strong performances from the two central performers give this a bigger impact than the subsequent explosion.
Though of course, that isn't really the end. Finally we reach a sequence that seems now to be one of the most influential in the history of the show - Jo's departure. I say influential because it's clearly a major contributor to the closing sequences of the last three series of the current show - the departures of Rose, Martha and Donna, and the lonely Doctor. But, if I'm honest, it does slightly show those others up. Not that they're bad, don't get me wrong. But the way all the emotion of the final scenes is underplayed means it has far more impact and subtlety than it's new series brethren. The sequence is generally expertly played (though one can't help but feel sorry for Richard Franklin, who's trying desperately to squeeze in everything the script isn't giving him an actual chance to say), particularly by Pertwee, and has a hauntingly memorable quality. A pretty damn fine conclusion to a pretty damn fine story.
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#774 20 Jan 2009, 12:19 am
Phil W
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Wellington
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Re: Day by Day
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Hurray! I've always been a fan of The Green Death, at least in part because it was one of the very first DW stories I ever saw as a child (I think I had seen Planet of Evil, Revenge of the Cybermen, Pyramids of Mars and The Seeds of Doom, all of which hooked me on the show, so the Pertwee must have been a repeat at some point in the mid 1970s here in NZ). But I've always been happy that it is a good story too (for example I think it is comfortably better than the Sea Devils, which itself isn't bad).
As always it is fascinating to read you reviews, Dorney. You drop hints that you aren't so familiar with this one, though, or have I inferred something incorrectly?
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#775 20 Jan 2009, 10:16 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The Green Death 6:
There's something difficult with reviewing this episode. It really shouldn't work. But somehow it does.
An awful lot of things are wrong with the resolution. Firstly, the incredibly convenient revelation that Cliff Jones' fungus is fatal to the maggots is... well, absurdly convenient.
Real life is like that, though. Witness penicillin. Serendipity existed before Doctor Who.
I find it more absurd that some/most of the Doctor's victories have to be so laborious and without good luck. He really does live in a flippin' depressing universe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#776 20 Jan 2009, 12:36 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil W
As always it is fascinating to read you reviews, Dorney. You drop hints that you aren't so familiar with this one, though, or have I inferred something incorrectly?
No, that's right. Given things like personal taste and availability, there are some stories I've simply not watched as often as others. In a few cases, of which I think the Green Death is one and Daemons was certainly another, I deliberately didn't rewatch them after a point as I knew I was doing this.
Certainly, there are a few coming up that I am very wobbly on - Revenge of the Cybermen, for example, and Planet of Evil are both pretty much blank slates to me, and I very much look forward to rediscovering them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Real life is like that, though. Witness penicillin. Serendipity existed before Doctor Who.
Whilst that's undeniably true, you reach the problem that drama isn't reality. There are rarely well constructed stories, or proper endings. Real life has to be shaped into a dramatic form. And an ending that relies on luck is less satisfying than one that doesn't.
(Actually, to clarify that a touch - luck itself isn't a problem. For example, the cure for the Ice Warrior spores in Seeds of Death is found in a similarly chance way... but because the cure's something incredibly easy to come across, it feels less of a problem. Here it's the way it's almost double or treble the convenience. Jo just happens to knock fungus onto the slides. A rare fungus that is pretty much impossible to find anywhere in the UK apart from this one house. And so on... That's not just lucky, that's incredibly lucky.)
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#777 20 Jan 2009, 1:06 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Well, yeah - that's pretty much the definiton of "serendipity"!
I don't find it too pat when it happens a few times in 800-odd episodes. Some shows are like that every single week...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#778 20 Jan 2009, 1:47 pm
Tiger
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Re: Day by Day
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Thanks for your reviews Dorney, always informative and they give an interesting slant on stories I either liked or disliked making me rethink my views on some of them.
You've confirmed my views on Frontier in Space though. Rather over rated given that its one hop from a cell to another with very little actual story.
It will be interesting when you get to the end of the Pertwee era to get to your views on it as a whole. Its suffered from the 'Pertwee backlash' conception since the early 90s. Whether its still suffering from that (and if it is, is it deservedly so) is an interesting subject, but having wathced the show in order, it will be interesting to get your view whether the Pertwee era now deserves a re-appraisal and whether it is superior or inferior to the show in the 60s. Its all a matter of taste though of course......
Planet of the Daleks
2 Dec 2008, 12:34 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 1:
One of the problems I had with the second Incredible Hulk film released this year was that because of the mixed reception the previous film had had there had clearly been a lot of thinking at Marvel.
The first film had included an origin story, back story and so on. But at the same time, they didn't want to remind people of it. The question was how much to acknowledge that.
It's a tricky question, and clearly one that they took time to think about. For my money, too much time. Because there's a fatal indecision at the heart of the Incredible Hulk movie. They clearly didn't decide whether it was a sequel of a reboot until well into the process. And as a result, the movie doesn't quite succeed as either. With a truncated origin story, it doesn't really work as a launch and it's opening scenes are clearly influenced by the end of the previous film. But at the same time, there are elements that completely contradict it.
You can see where I'm going with this, can't you? Planet of the Daleks 1 has the same problem. Is it part one of a new story - or part seven of another?
At least part of it only makes sense as the continuation of Frontier in Space. Within this story alone we've no idea (and it's never explained) why the Doctor is in quite a state at the beginning, for example. And as the opening episode to an action adventure serial, ten minutes of Katy Manning talking to herself whilst she walks through a not particularly menacing forest is hardly a grabber.
And yet - it also seems to think it's a story of its own. Now, I don't entirely mind the cliffhanger revelations of Daleks in stories where they're named in the title, for reasons I discussed under Day of the Daleks - but here it's just daft. They had a big dramatic reveal a week ago. They don't need one now. In deed, to pitch that as the big shock of the finale is odd, because surely the big twist at this point isn't that it's a Dalek, it's that it's an invisible Dalek? And it's certainly the former that it's pitched as, with the Doctor's exclamation of surprise being the big clue - and that's just barking. The Daleks are clearly still out there at the end of the previous episode, the Doctor's going after them, he meets Thals, he even talks about Daleks, for crying out loud. Why's he surprised?
He's surprised because the odd structure means that despite the Doctor clearly being after the Daleks at the end of the last story, the story's still hamstrung by the duality. Because Nation, at least in part, views this as part one, he's got to hold off the plot for an episode to get to the reveal. The episode becomes about breaking the continuity, rather than running with it.
And that's a bit sad, because this story could have launched with a bang rather than the Doctor going in and out of a coma as the story dictated. It could have carried on the momentum, but Nation's inability to work with an unusual structure means that the episode is just a bit disappointing.
OK, it's still watchable enough. There's always something going on, the writings all right, and there are some potentially entertaining (if unoriginal) ideas at work. Ultimately, however, it's just not as interesting as it could have been, and remains a placeholder episode.
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Last edited by Dorney; 2 Dec 2008 at 12:44 pm.
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#750 5 Dec 2008, 3:08 pm
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Nation's inability to work with an unusual structure means that the episode is just a bit disappointing.
It seems to me that it's a little unfair to place the blame at Nation's feet without evidence of where the blame lies. I mean, unless you know how much he was told about the ongoing plot, it's impossible to judge how good a job he did. If he didn't know what was going to happen in the previous story, it's entirely understandable that he'd just write a more-or-less normal Dalek story, and leave it up to the script editor to make it fit into the series' continuity. Even if Nation did know and fumbled the ball, it's still the script editor's job to pick it up (though in that case at least the blame would be shared).
It's like the bit at the beginning of Girl In The Fireplace where Mickey and Rose are getting on fabulously, despite the fact that at the end of the previous ep she obviously didn't want him along, and there's clearly only been a very short time in between. Some people criticised Steven Moffat for not making his episode match better with the previous one, which I thought was uncalled-for, given that he had obviously written his episode without knowing how the previous one was going to end. Other people have the specific jobs of editing scripts and overseeing continuity; the writer is only reponsible for his own job.
Apart from that little niggle, good review as always!
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#751 6 Dec 2008, 6:38 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
It seems to me that it's a little unfair to place the blame at Nation's feet without evidence of where the blame lies. I mean, unless you know how much he was told about the ongoing plot, it's impossible to judge how good a job he did. If he didn't know what was going to happen in the previous story, it's entirely understandable that he'd just write a more-or-less normal Dalek story, and leave it up to the script editor to make it fit into the series' continuity. Even if Nation did know and fumbled the ball, it's still the script editor's job to pick it up (though in that case at least the blame would be shared).
To be honest, if an episode doesn't work, the script editor should always share some of the blame (he should point things out).
But, to me, it's fairly clear that the problem with the episode is that it doesn't know whether it's an episode one or an episode seven - and that means, to me, that it has to be by and large Nation's fault. Because whatever he was told, whatever he knew about the season's structure, he doesn't manage to pull off either option.
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#752 7 Dec 2008, 3:26 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
To be honest, if an episode doesn't work, the script editor should always share some of the blame (he should point things out).
But, to me, it's fairly clear that the problem with the episode is that it doesn't know whether it's an episode one or an episode seven - and that means, to me, that it has to be by and large Nation's fault. Because whatever he was told, whatever he knew about the season's structure, he doesn't manage to pull off either option.
In the novelisation of "Frontier" (titled "Doctor Who and the Space War"), original author Malcolm Hulke doesn't even have the Doctor being shot - he's perfectly healthy and awake as the book ends. Then as the subsequent novelisation starts, he's suffering the after-effects of a gunshot and comatose! One could argue that maybe Hulke was working from the original scripted ending and not Paul Bernard's hasty revised effort due to the Ogron-eater re-edit. But this was years later and the programme as broadcast was well-known. If Hulke can't make it tie into the subsequent (already screened) episode, he's no better than Nation!
Also, if the script for "Frontier" was mucked around with to cope with what was shot, and what was removed by Letts & Co in editing, we can't know what Nation had intended to include or exclude without seeing his script. The whole transition looks a bit of a fiasco from producer and director(s) on down.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#753 8 Dec 2008, 3:08 pm
Llama Roddy
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Re: Day by Day
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ISTR reading an interview with Malcolm Hulke in which he explained that he'd deliberately left the cliffhanger ending out of the novelisation tp provide closure for readers who didn't know or have the subsequent book. His books never did stick to a straightforward duplication of what appeared on screen, which is part of the reason they're so much better than a lot of the later novelisations. If you don't like this particular instance of his going a different way from the televised version, so be it, but it was never a matter of inability to tie things in with the start of PotD.
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#754 8 Dec 2008, 5:28 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama Roddy
ISTR reading an interview with Malcolm Hulke in which he explained that he'd deliberately left the cliffhanger ending out of the novelisation tp provide closure for readers who didn't know or have the subsequent book. His books never did stick to a straightforward duplication of what appeared on screen, which is part of the reason they're so much better than a lot of the later novelisations. If you don't like this particular instance of his going a different way from the televised version, so be it, but it was never a matter of inability to tie things in with the start of PotD.
That clean-break philosophy could explain why Nation started his story in such a way though - the Daleks were a "shock revelation" because, with a production team that wanted as many "first nights" or jumping-abord episodes as possible in a season (budget allowing), it'd be barmy to have a 12-part story with one "first night" and 11 continuations... and "Planet" is clearly a completely new cast and plot, rarely if ever referring back to the events of "Frontier", so Nation may not have been the sole chooser of this approach, he could even have been directed to use it (and Dicks clearly didn't amend the script on this point).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#755 12 Dec 2008, 12:44 am
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
That clean-break philosophy could explain why Nation started his story in such a way though - the Daleks were a "shock revelation" because, with a production team that wanted as many "first nights" or jumping-abord episodes as possible in a season (budget allowing), it'd be barmy to have a 12-part story with one "first night" and 11 continuations... and "Planet" is clearly a completely new cast and plot, rarely if ever referring back to the events of "Frontier", so Nation may not have been the sole chooser of this approach, he could even have been directed to use it (and Dicks clearly didn't amend the script on this point).
But my point was that, although it's been a while since I've watched it, it seemed to me that Part 1 of "Planet" was, in fact, a fairly normal Dalek story Part 1, with only the whole "The Doctor is ill" thing tacked on to tie it into the previous story. Therefore I'd say seems like Nation simply wrote it as a normal Part 1, and left it up to Dicks to tie it into the ongoing plot.
Now, I agree it doesn't really work as it is, but without knowing how much he knew about the previous story, it's impossible to say whether that is Nation's fault for writing it poorly -- i.e. leaving Dicks with an impossible task because Nation's script simply didn't fit and the reworking it required was too much in the time available -- or whether he was simply doing the best job he could under the circumstances -- i.e. writing a story that worked on its own, and leaving continuity issues to others.
I could be misremembering, of course, and maybe it really is more of an uncomfortable halfway house than I recall. But I'd still say we don't know how much of the finished script was written by Dicks, and we can't simply blame Nation without that knowledge. Maybe it is a structural mess, and "doesn't know whether it's an episode one or an episode seven" -- but that could be because Nation wrote it one way, then Dicks rewrote it the other way.
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#756 17 Dec 2008, 11:07 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 2:
There's something inherently charming about an episode that all but admits it's filler. A sort of honesty that you can't help but admire.
The buzz with the Thals this episode is that they don't have a plan. They're hanging round a bit, slowly getting picked off, waiting. And as anyone's who read this thread will know, this translates into: no plot. No one doing anything means no story.
OK, that's a bit of an over-simplification here, because the Daleks are at least up to something - the whole invisibility thing. But because the characters we're following are doing their level best to avoid the Daleks (and couldn't do anything if they met them) then that doesn't really get us anywhere. Throughout the episode we're just waiting to the revelation of the final seconds - something to push a bit of urgency into the story, give the characters something to aim at.
So without a plot to keep it going, what are the twenty five minutes filled with? Well, firstly, we've got a few leanings towards arguments about the morality of war, and the obligations of a soldier, and a meditation on cowardice - all of which is interesting enough, if broadly written (as you'd expect from a family show). Already it's fairly clear that there's going to be a bit of worthy moralising in this story, though as ever with Nation it's a bit hard to tell what the message is - Horsfall for example is presented as noble and wise - but it's hard not to see some worth in Hancock's suggestion that they really ought to be doing something. And this is all a bit weird from the man who created Blake's 7. The side effect of this is that the Thals aren't really presented as individual characters but as archetypal thematic avatars - wisdom, recklessness and fear. Though given that the Daleks are essentially the same, this isn't really a major problem.
Blunt as it may be, straightforward as it may be, there's something likeable in Nation's comic strip style. Again it's easy to forget that the man's other tv shows tend to have a more adult bent (albeit played with a fairly boy's own feel) and that this feel is fairly deliberately tailored. This is intentional pulp and as it is it works - in deed, I'd go so far as to say that given the obvious limitations in realising the world, it's almost the best thing to do - the broader stroke suit the environment. It's fun.
And the next episode might even have a story.
Dorney
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#757 19 Dec 2008, 7:03 pm
Michael S Collins
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Re: Day by Day
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Keep going, Dorney. you'll be home and dry before you know it.
Hope your career's still going strong.
Michael
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#758 21 Dec 2008, 7:39 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 3:
Now that's more like it.
You know, people often talk about PotD as being a blatant remake of the first Dalek story. It's not hard to see a certain degree of logic to this, but I think it's slightly fairer to say that it's similar conceptually rather than a remake. So it contains a lot of the same basic elements (Daleks and Thals, aliens jungle surrounding alien city) just juggles them with a new plot.
Most of the time.
Episode three is the exception. It's probably exarcebated by the black and white (and boy, that's a bit of a shock when you're so used to colour - completely forgot it was coming up!) but episode three does rather feel like it's The Daleks in twenty five minutes. So many specific elements turn up again - the heroes using tunnels leading into the base that are based around piping, other heroes trapped in a cell luring in a Dalek and disabling it, peril in lifts, two seperate teams meeting up, heroic sacrifice.
And by ramming it all together we get a cracking episode. After two installments waiting for things to happen and with precious little actual threat, we have a great boy's own yarn of escape. It's comparitively straight forward (and often reliant on ludicrous coincidence - of all the vents Varon choses he picks the one the Doctor's just about to walk past!), but it's fast, and with some genuine Dalek menace giving it high stakes. One of the things that makes it work is the real sense that they're in trouble - the Doctor consistently getting forced deeper into the city, Daleks at every corner, the effort made to imply dangerous levels of cold in the tunnels and the emphasis on how it's a dangerous plan - it all racks up the tension. OK, it's not without it's flaws. General Von Klinkerhoffen's self sacrifice seems utterly pointless from both his perspective and in terms of story, he's barely said a word anyway so it doesn't matter a stuff to us. The ice volcano stuff comes out of nowhere as does the biological stuff the Daleks are supposedly working on. Oh and Jo really doesn't feel the urge to do anything useful (though to be fair the Doctor seems to have forgotten the fact she's supposed to be dead). But at the same time, crappier elements of previous episodes are skipped (little spiridon action means we don't have to put up with anything else like Tim Preece's interpretative dance sequence). And the ending, whilst almost certainly scientific balls, is mental enough to work as precisely the sort of audacious get out the build up needs (when things are getting difficult, you need the escape route to be insane otherwise it diminshes the threat - if the situation is desperate, the resolution must be desperate too).
So, all in all, rather good fun.
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#759 27 Dec 2008, 8:32 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 4:
If you want to know what the problem with this story is, episode four provides the result. It's like the entire six parts in microcosm.
After the surge in quality of the previous episode, the script keeps this up. There's a fairly limp resolution to the cliffhanger, though admittedly one that was fairly obviously coming up last time anyway (episode 3: it's not working, episode 4: oh, it is, sorry, my mistake...), but it still manages to keep the tension going for the first ten minutes or so.
And then it just stops. The rest of the episode returns to tedious runaround and strange moralising speeches that don't make an awful lot of sense. And it's relatively clear why.
The reason the first half works (and the third episode too) is focus. There's a clear sense of purpose and drive. The story's going somewhere. It knows where it's going and it's going there. But the moment our heroes escape from the Dalek city, that stops. We're back to the first couple of episodes with a lot of Thals mooching around not quite sure what they're going to do.
I remember someone somewhere suggesting the game of 'Tell me the plot of The Armageddon Factor' as a fun way to bemuse a fan, and I suspect that it's true of this story as well, albeit for different reasons. There simply isn't one. What's it about? The Daleks are after invisibility (a promising idea that's basically been forgotten), they're developing a bacteria, they've got a frozen army. The story can't decide what it's central thrust is, and that's probably why the Thal storyline is equally vague - after all, how can your heroes fight the villains when the villains don't have a clue what they're up to.
It's a shame because we're stuck in a position where most of the Thals are cyphers with one word personalities (that fade in and out according to the requirements of the plot - no cowardice from Preece for a couple of episodes, you'll note), which almost doesn't matter if you've got enough story driving it through (let's face it, it's a Nation staple). But without, the story becomes a character piece without any characters.
It's not all bad, though. We finally get at least an attempt to tie the story to Frontier (though it's hilariously tenuous and with the Doctor practically admitting that it makes little sense). But generally it doesn't work. When a major plot point is trying to find a warm place to sleep you know you're in trouble.
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#760 31 Dec 2008, 1:01 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 5:
OK, so I lied.
Turns out that it isn't just episode three that's a little too influenced by its authors earlier material. This episode does it as well. But we'll get to that.
It's odd that this episode, and this story, spends an awfully small amount of time letting its stars do anything. It takes over six minutes for the Daleks to even appear in this episode, for example. But this is nowhere more pronounced than in the bacteriological warfare subplot. The token friendly Spiridon, Wester (forgotten for a couple of episodes until his return is convenient) turns up at the camp and warns our heroes about the planned virus. And it doesn't really seem to fuss them in the slightest.
Let me reiterate that point. A virus that will wipe out every single thing on the planet is less important to them than destroying a currently inactive army of Daleks. Er, why? Surely that should be your priority. The frozen army can wait, help the friendly invisible chappie.
It's made even worse by the resolution of this subplot - the Doctor and Taron watch as Wester sacrifices his life to save everyone... and once again, the Doctor doesn't seem to give a toss. He just suggests they move on.
It's all deeply frustrating, as this plotline that keeps insinuating it's a major plot point actually turns out not to affect any of the main cast at all. It distracts the Daleks for a bit, keeps them looking busy, and is eventually resolved by a minor supporting character who we haven't (if you'll forgive the pun) seen in a couple of episodes. It really should connect with the Doctor in some way, shouldn't it? Otherwise it's just a sideshow.
To be fair, the plot of this episode is, largely, about the Doctor trying to get into the Dalek city to actually achieve something. He speaks for the audience when he tells Taron that he's tired of just running away (but surely, to be able to sit down and write these lines and not realise there's a problem with your storyline... well, that beggars belief). This leads to a glorious line when Jo offers to be a lure for the Daleks because she's 'tired of being hunted'. So you decide that the best thing to do when you're tired of being hunted is: get someone to hunt you. Yeah, that makes sense.
And here we get the repeat of the first Dalek story again, as the Doctor and friends imobilise a Dalek or two through a handy weakness (cold killing them on impact -which makes the notion of the frozen army a little odd, though I guess not impossible), before chucking out the disgusting creature inside (and once again, we cut away) before being led in, in a handy Dalek & his posse formation. It works well enough (and the location filming makes the whole thing seem much less unrealistic).
It's all OK, but it's just a shame it's taken this long to get going. The original serial was at this point three episodes in, remember. That's the problem - no forward momentum. No-one doing anything for a grander purpose than filling out a bit of time until they can do something else.
7 Jan 2009, 10:36 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 6:
I’ve often felt that the final episode of a story should be one of the easiest to write. Set up enough in the earlier episodes, and the finale should be a comparative doddle as you just have to let it all roll. But there’s a problem with that. Don’t set up enough and you’ve got far too much time to fill.
That’s Planet’s problem. It’s all very well writing a story about inaction and an inability to complete – after all, that’s essentially the story of Shakespeare’s most iconic play – as long as you use that time profitably. And it’s even more clear here that the time has been wasted. It’s all been a desperate attempt to fill in as much time as possible.
You see, now the Thals have finally decided that it’s time to act… well, it’s all just terribly easy. It’s the equivalent of Hamlet just going up to Claudius and stabbing him. They go down to the lower level and blow up what they need to blow up. The Daleks half try to follow them, but get barricaded out. And, as if to rub our noses in it, Jo and her bland friend (who’s done absolutely nothing in the story apart from give her someone to talk to – which would be almost acceptable if Jo had herself done any more than mooch around the jungle filling in time and giving the show something to cut away to. No wonder I can’t remember his name) abseil in down the incomprehensibly unguarded chimney that our heroes previously escaped from. Why didn’t they all do that? Why the over-complicated and nearly fatal ‘Spiridons and guard’ routines?
The earlier episodes haven’t bothered to set anything up, so the resolution has to be correspondingly simple. There just isn’t enough to fill this episode with. There’s some effort to disguise all this with some half hearted attempts to inject a bit of threat or danger – ‘oh my god, we’ve dropped the bomb amongst the Daleks!’ ‘Oh my god, the Dalek Rebec was in has been destroyed!’ ‘The explosion hasn’t released the ice volcano like we planned!’ ‘There are poisonous plants squirting between us and the TARDIS’. But you can tell it’s half-hearted due to the way the threat is resolved instantly, in the dullest manor imaginable – ‘Oh well, the Doctor can just climb down and pick it up.’ ‘Oh, she got out.’ ‘Oh, actually it did.’’Oh, just cover your face and leg it.’ None of it’s tied to the plot, none of it changes the direction. Hell, even the arrival of the Supreme Dalek is just something to distract us with, as he doesn’t do anything at all either. Apart from blind himself every time he speaks.
And then it’s all over. Jo’s mate asks her to go back to Skaro, after they’ve displayed less chemistry than a broken Bunsen burner (I mean, is it even supposed to be a romance?). Jo declines, which turns out to be the right decision because, typically of the story, Latep (all right, I looked it up) seems not to be bothered in the slightest by this, heading straight off to the spaceship with nary a tear or backward glance.
All in all, it’s a wasted opportunity. Frontier promises, and Planet just doesn’t deliver. And not only that, it actively, consciously doesn’t deliver, it’s about not delivering. Which is hardly a good thing.
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#762 7 Jan 2009, 1:01 pm
fortmap
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Re: Day by Day
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And yet Planet of the Daleks was the story that made a fan. Well - the novelisation, to be precise.
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Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 1:
One of the problems I had with the second Incredible Hulk film released this year was that because of the mixed reception the previous film had had there had clearly been a lot of thinking at Marvel.
The first film had included an origin story, back story and so on. But at the same time, they didn't want to remind people of it. The question was how much to acknowledge that.
It's a tricky question, and clearly one that they took time to think about. For my money, too much time. Because there's a fatal indecision at the heart of the Incredible Hulk movie. They clearly didn't decide whether it was a sequel of a reboot until well into the process. And as a result, the movie doesn't quite succeed as either. With a truncated origin story, it doesn't really work as a launch and it's opening scenes are clearly influenced by the end of the previous film. But at the same time, there are elements that completely contradict it.
You can see where I'm going with this, can't you? Planet of the Daleks 1 has the same problem. Is it part one of a new story - or part seven of another?
At least part of it only makes sense as the continuation of Frontier in Space. Within this story alone we've no idea (and it's never explained) why the Doctor is in quite a state at the beginning, for example. And as the opening episode to an action adventure serial, ten minutes of Katy Manning talking to herself whilst she walks through a not particularly menacing forest is hardly a grabber.
And yet - it also seems to think it's a story of its own. Now, I don't entirely mind the cliffhanger revelations of Daleks in stories where they're named in the title, for reasons I discussed under Day of the Daleks - but here it's just daft. They had a big dramatic reveal a week ago. They don't need one now. In deed, to pitch that as the big shock of the finale is odd, because surely the big twist at this point isn't that it's a Dalek, it's that it's an invisible Dalek? And it's certainly the former that it's pitched as, with the Doctor's exclamation of surprise being the big clue - and that's just barking. The Daleks are clearly still out there at the end of the previous episode, the Doctor's going after them, he meets Thals, he even talks about Daleks, for crying out loud. Why's he surprised?
He's surprised because the odd structure means that despite the Doctor clearly being after the Daleks at the end of the last story, the story's still hamstrung by the duality. Because Nation, at least in part, views this as part one, he's got to hold off the plot for an episode to get to the reveal. The episode becomes about breaking the continuity, rather than running with it.
And that's a bit sad, because this story could have launched with a bang rather than the Doctor going in and out of a coma as the story dictated. It could have carried on the momentum, but Nation's inability to work with an unusual structure means that the episode is just a bit disappointing.
OK, it's still watchable enough. There's always something going on, the writings all right, and there are some potentially entertaining (if unoriginal) ideas at work. Ultimately, however, it's just not as interesting as it could have been, and remains a placeholder episode.
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Last edited by Dorney; 2 Dec 2008 at 12:44 pm.
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#750 5 Dec 2008, 3:08 pm
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Nation's inability to work with an unusual structure means that the episode is just a bit disappointing.
It seems to me that it's a little unfair to place the blame at Nation's feet without evidence of where the blame lies. I mean, unless you know how much he was told about the ongoing plot, it's impossible to judge how good a job he did. If he didn't know what was going to happen in the previous story, it's entirely understandable that he'd just write a more-or-less normal Dalek story, and leave it up to the script editor to make it fit into the series' continuity. Even if Nation did know and fumbled the ball, it's still the script editor's job to pick it up (though in that case at least the blame would be shared).
It's like the bit at the beginning of Girl In The Fireplace where Mickey and Rose are getting on fabulously, despite the fact that at the end of the previous ep she obviously didn't want him along, and there's clearly only been a very short time in between. Some people criticised Steven Moffat for not making his episode match better with the previous one, which I thought was uncalled-for, given that he had obviously written his episode without knowing how the previous one was going to end. Other people have the specific jobs of editing scripts and overseeing continuity; the writer is only reponsible for his own job.
Apart from that little niggle, good review as always!
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#751 6 Dec 2008, 6:38 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
It seems to me that it's a little unfair to place the blame at Nation's feet without evidence of where the blame lies. I mean, unless you know how much he was told about the ongoing plot, it's impossible to judge how good a job he did. If he didn't know what was going to happen in the previous story, it's entirely understandable that he'd just write a more-or-less normal Dalek story, and leave it up to the script editor to make it fit into the series' continuity. Even if Nation did know and fumbled the ball, it's still the script editor's job to pick it up (though in that case at least the blame would be shared).
To be honest, if an episode doesn't work, the script editor should always share some of the blame (he should point things out).
But, to me, it's fairly clear that the problem with the episode is that it doesn't know whether it's an episode one or an episode seven - and that means, to me, that it has to be by and large Nation's fault. Because whatever he was told, whatever he knew about the season's structure, he doesn't manage to pull off either option.
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#752 7 Dec 2008, 3:26 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
To be honest, if an episode doesn't work, the script editor should always share some of the blame (he should point things out).
But, to me, it's fairly clear that the problem with the episode is that it doesn't know whether it's an episode one or an episode seven - and that means, to me, that it has to be by and large Nation's fault. Because whatever he was told, whatever he knew about the season's structure, he doesn't manage to pull off either option.
In the novelisation of "Frontier" (titled "Doctor Who and the Space War"), original author Malcolm Hulke doesn't even have the Doctor being shot - he's perfectly healthy and awake as the book ends. Then as the subsequent novelisation starts, he's suffering the after-effects of a gunshot and comatose! One could argue that maybe Hulke was working from the original scripted ending and not Paul Bernard's hasty revised effort due to the Ogron-eater re-edit. But this was years later and the programme as broadcast was well-known. If Hulke can't make it tie into the subsequent (already screened) episode, he's no better than Nation!
Also, if the script for "Frontier" was mucked around with to cope with what was shot, and what was removed by Letts & Co in editing, we can't know what Nation had intended to include or exclude without seeing his script. The whole transition looks a bit of a fiasco from producer and director(s) on down.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#753 8 Dec 2008, 3:08 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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ISTR reading an interview with Malcolm Hulke in which he explained that he'd deliberately left the cliffhanger ending out of the novelisation tp provide closure for readers who didn't know or have the subsequent book. His books never did stick to a straightforward duplication of what appeared on screen, which is part of the reason they're so much better than a lot of the later novelisations. If you don't like this particular instance of his going a different way from the televised version, so be it, but it was never a matter of inability to tie things in with the start of PotD.
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#754 8 Dec 2008, 5:28 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Llama Roddy
ISTR reading an interview with Malcolm Hulke in which he explained that he'd deliberately left the cliffhanger ending out of the novelisation tp provide closure for readers who didn't know or have the subsequent book. His books never did stick to a straightforward duplication of what appeared on screen, which is part of the reason they're so much better than a lot of the later novelisations. If you don't like this particular instance of his going a different way from the televised version, so be it, but it was never a matter of inability to tie things in with the start of PotD.
That clean-break philosophy could explain why Nation started his story in such a way though - the Daleks were a "shock revelation" because, with a production team that wanted as many "first nights" or jumping-abord episodes as possible in a season (budget allowing), it'd be barmy to have a 12-part story with one "first night" and 11 continuations... and "Planet" is clearly a completely new cast and plot, rarely if ever referring back to the events of "Frontier", so Nation may not have been the sole chooser of this approach, he could even have been directed to use it (and Dicks clearly didn't amend the script on this point).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#755 12 Dec 2008, 12:44 am
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
That clean-break philosophy could explain why Nation started his story in such a way though - the Daleks were a "shock revelation" because, with a production team that wanted as many "first nights" or jumping-abord episodes as possible in a season (budget allowing), it'd be barmy to have a 12-part story with one "first night" and 11 continuations... and "Planet" is clearly a completely new cast and plot, rarely if ever referring back to the events of "Frontier", so Nation may not have been the sole chooser of this approach, he could even have been directed to use it (and Dicks clearly didn't amend the script on this point).
But my point was that, although it's been a while since I've watched it, it seemed to me that Part 1 of "Planet" was, in fact, a fairly normal Dalek story Part 1, with only the whole "The Doctor is ill" thing tacked on to tie it into the previous story. Therefore I'd say seems like Nation simply wrote it as a normal Part 1, and left it up to Dicks to tie it into the ongoing plot.
Now, I agree it doesn't really work as it is, but without knowing how much he knew about the previous story, it's impossible to say whether that is Nation's fault for writing it poorly -- i.e. leaving Dicks with an impossible task because Nation's script simply didn't fit and the reworking it required was too much in the time available -- or whether he was simply doing the best job he could under the circumstances -- i.e. writing a story that worked on its own, and leaving continuity issues to others.
I could be misremembering, of course, and maybe it really is more of an uncomfortable halfway house than I recall. But I'd still say we don't know how much of the finished script was written by Dicks, and we can't simply blame Nation without that knowledge. Maybe it is a structural mess, and "doesn't know whether it's an episode one or an episode seven" -- but that could be because Nation wrote it one way, then Dicks rewrote it the other way.
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#756 17 Dec 2008, 11:07 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 2:
There's something inherently charming about an episode that all but admits it's filler. A sort of honesty that you can't help but admire.
The buzz with the Thals this episode is that they don't have a plan. They're hanging round a bit, slowly getting picked off, waiting. And as anyone's who read this thread will know, this translates into: no plot. No one doing anything means no story.
OK, that's a bit of an over-simplification here, because the Daleks are at least up to something - the whole invisibility thing. But because the characters we're following are doing their level best to avoid the Daleks (and couldn't do anything if they met them) then that doesn't really get us anywhere. Throughout the episode we're just waiting to the revelation of the final seconds - something to push a bit of urgency into the story, give the characters something to aim at.
So without a plot to keep it going, what are the twenty five minutes filled with? Well, firstly, we've got a few leanings towards arguments about the morality of war, and the obligations of a soldier, and a meditation on cowardice - all of which is interesting enough, if broadly written (as you'd expect from a family show). Already it's fairly clear that there's going to be a bit of worthy moralising in this story, though as ever with Nation it's a bit hard to tell what the message is - Horsfall for example is presented as noble and wise - but it's hard not to see some worth in Hancock's suggestion that they really ought to be doing something. And this is all a bit weird from the man who created Blake's 7. The side effect of this is that the Thals aren't really presented as individual characters but as archetypal thematic avatars - wisdom, recklessness and fear. Though given that the Daleks are essentially the same, this isn't really a major problem.
Blunt as it may be, straightforward as it may be, there's something likeable in Nation's comic strip style. Again it's easy to forget that the man's other tv shows tend to have a more adult bent (albeit played with a fairly boy's own feel) and that this feel is fairly deliberately tailored. This is intentional pulp and as it is it works - in deed, I'd go so far as to say that given the obvious limitations in realising the world, it's almost the best thing to do - the broader stroke suit the environment. It's fun.
And the next episode might even have a story.
Dorney
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#757 19 Dec 2008, 7:03 pm
Michael S Collins
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Re: Day by Day
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Keep going, Dorney. you'll be home and dry before you know it.
Hope your career's still going strong.
Michael
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"In Poe, you reach out for your bedside lamp at night and it isn't there; in M.R. James, you reach out for your bedside lamp and something in the dark hands it to you"
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#758 21 Dec 2008, 7:39 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 3:
Now that's more like it.
You know, people often talk about PotD as being a blatant remake of the first Dalek story. It's not hard to see a certain degree of logic to this, but I think it's slightly fairer to say that it's similar conceptually rather than a remake. So it contains a lot of the same basic elements (Daleks and Thals, aliens jungle surrounding alien city) just juggles them with a new plot.
Most of the time.
Episode three is the exception. It's probably exarcebated by the black and white (and boy, that's a bit of a shock when you're so used to colour - completely forgot it was coming up!) but episode three does rather feel like it's The Daleks in twenty five minutes. So many specific elements turn up again - the heroes using tunnels leading into the base that are based around piping, other heroes trapped in a cell luring in a Dalek and disabling it, peril in lifts, two seperate teams meeting up, heroic sacrifice.
And by ramming it all together we get a cracking episode. After two installments waiting for things to happen and with precious little actual threat, we have a great boy's own yarn of escape. It's comparitively straight forward (and often reliant on ludicrous coincidence - of all the vents Varon choses he picks the one the Doctor's just about to walk past!), but it's fast, and with some genuine Dalek menace giving it high stakes. One of the things that makes it work is the real sense that they're in trouble - the Doctor consistently getting forced deeper into the city, Daleks at every corner, the effort made to imply dangerous levels of cold in the tunnels and the emphasis on how it's a dangerous plan - it all racks up the tension. OK, it's not without it's flaws. General Von Klinkerhoffen's self sacrifice seems utterly pointless from both his perspective and in terms of story, he's barely said a word anyway so it doesn't matter a stuff to us. The ice volcano stuff comes out of nowhere as does the biological stuff the Daleks are supposedly working on. Oh and Jo really doesn't feel the urge to do anything useful (though to be fair the Doctor seems to have forgotten the fact she's supposed to be dead). But at the same time, crappier elements of previous episodes are skipped (little spiridon action means we don't have to put up with anything else like Tim Preece's interpretative dance sequence). And the ending, whilst almost certainly scientific balls, is mental enough to work as precisely the sort of audacious get out the build up needs (when things are getting difficult, you need the escape route to be insane otherwise it diminshes the threat - if the situation is desperate, the resolution must be desperate too).
So, all in all, rather good fun.
Dorney
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#759 27 Dec 2008, 8:32 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 4:
If you want to know what the problem with this story is, episode four provides the result. It's like the entire six parts in microcosm.
After the surge in quality of the previous episode, the script keeps this up. There's a fairly limp resolution to the cliffhanger, though admittedly one that was fairly obviously coming up last time anyway (episode 3: it's not working, episode 4: oh, it is, sorry, my mistake...), but it still manages to keep the tension going for the first ten minutes or so.
And then it just stops. The rest of the episode returns to tedious runaround and strange moralising speeches that don't make an awful lot of sense. And it's relatively clear why.
The reason the first half works (and the third episode too) is focus. There's a clear sense of purpose and drive. The story's going somewhere. It knows where it's going and it's going there. But the moment our heroes escape from the Dalek city, that stops. We're back to the first couple of episodes with a lot of Thals mooching around not quite sure what they're going to do.
I remember someone somewhere suggesting the game of 'Tell me the plot of The Armageddon Factor' as a fun way to bemuse a fan, and I suspect that it's true of this story as well, albeit for different reasons. There simply isn't one. What's it about? The Daleks are after invisibility (a promising idea that's basically been forgotten), they're developing a bacteria, they've got a frozen army. The story can't decide what it's central thrust is, and that's probably why the Thal storyline is equally vague - after all, how can your heroes fight the villains when the villains don't have a clue what they're up to.
It's a shame because we're stuck in a position where most of the Thals are cyphers with one word personalities (that fade in and out according to the requirements of the plot - no cowardice from Preece for a couple of episodes, you'll note), which almost doesn't matter if you've got enough story driving it through (let's face it, it's a Nation staple). But without, the story becomes a character piece without any characters.
It's not all bad, though. We finally get at least an attempt to tie the story to Frontier (though it's hilariously tenuous and with the Doctor practically admitting that it makes little sense). But generally it doesn't work. When a major plot point is trying to find a warm place to sleep you know you're in trouble.
Dorney
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#760 31 Dec 2008, 1:01 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 5:
OK, so I lied.
Turns out that it isn't just episode three that's a little too influenced by its authors earlier material. This episode does it as well. But we'll get to that.
It's odd that this episode, and this story, spends an awfully small amount of time letting its stars do anything. It takes over six minutes for the Daleks to even appear in this episode, for example. But this is nowhere more pronounced than in the bacteriological warfare subplot. The token friendly Spiridon, Wester (forgotten for a couple of episodes until his return is convenient) turns up at the camp and warns our heroes about the planned virus. And it doesn't really seem to fuss them in the slightest.
Let me reiterate that point. A virus that will wipe out every single thing on the planet is less important to them than destroying a currently inactive army of Daleks. Er, why? Surely that should be your priority. The frozen army can wait, help the friendly invisible chappie.
It's made even worse by the resolution of this subplot - the Doctor and Taron watch as Wester sacrifices his life to save everyone... and once again, the Doctor doesn't seem to give a toss. He just suggests they move on.
It's all deeply frustrating, as this plotline that keeps insinuating it's a major plot point actually turns out not to affect any of the main cast at all. It distracts the Daleks for a bit, keeps them looking busy, and is eventually resolved by a minor supporting character who we haven't (if you'll forgive the pun) seen in a couple of episodes. It really should connect with the Doctor in some way, shouldn't it? Otherwise it's just a sideshow.
To be fair, the plot of this episode is, largely, about the Doctor trying to get into the Dalek city to actually achieve something. He speaks for the audience when he tells Taron that he's tired of just running away (but surely, to be able to sit down and write these lines and not realise there's a problem with your storyline... well, that beggars belief). This leads to a glorious line when Jo offers to be a lure for the Daleks because she's 'tired of being hunted'. So you decide that the best thing to do when you're tired of being hunted is: get someone to hunt you. Yeah, that makes sense.
And here we get the repeat of the first Dalek story again, as the Doctor and friends imobilise a Dalek or two through a handy weakness (cold killing them on impact -which makes the notion of the frozen army a little odd, though I guess not impossible), before chucking out the disgusting creature inside (and once again, we cut away) before being led in, in a handy Dalek & his posse formation. It works well enough (and the location filming makes the whole thing seem much less unrealistic).
It's all OK, but it's just a shame it's taken this long to get going. The original serial was at this point three episodes in, remember. That's the problem - no forward momentum. No-one doing anything for a grander purpose than filling out a bit of time until they can do something else.
7 Jan 2009, 10:36 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Planet of the Daleks 6:
I’ve often felt that the final episode of a story should be one of the easiest to write. Set up enough in the earlier episodes, and the finale should be a comparative doddle as you just have to let it all roll. But there’s a problem with that. Don’t set up enough and you’ve got far too much time to fill.
That’s Planet’s problem. It’s all very well writing a story about inaction and an inability to complete – after all, that’s essentially the story of Shakespeare’s most iconic play – as long as you use that time profitably. And it’s even more clear here that the time has been wasted. It’s all been a desperate attempt to fill in as much time as possible.
You see, now the Thals have finally decided that it’s time to act… well, it’s all just terribly easy. It’s the equivalent of Hamlet just going up to Claudius and stabbing him. They go down to the lower level and blow up what they need to blow up. The Daleks half try to follow them, but get barricaded out. And, as if to rub our noses in it, Jo and her bland friend (who’s done absolutely nothing in the story apart from give her someone to talk to – which would be almost acceptable if Jo had herself done any more than mooch around the jungle filling in time and giving the show something to cut away to. No wonder I can’t remember his name) abseil in down the incomprehensibly unguarded chimney that our heroes previously escaped from. Why didn’t they all do that? Why the over-complicated and nearly fatal ‘Spiridons and guard’ routines?
The earlier episodes haven’t bothered to set anything up, so the resolution has to be correspondingly simple. There just isn’t enough to fill this episode with. There’s some effort to disguise all this with some half hearted attempts to inject a bit of threat or danger – ‘oh my god, we’ve dropped the bomb amongst the Daleks!’ ‘Oh my god, the Dalek Rebec was in has been destroyed!’ ‘The explosion hasn’t released the ice volcano like we planned!’ ‘There are poisonous plants squirting between us and the TARDIS’. But you can tell it’s half-hearted due to the way the threat is resolved instantly, in the dullest manor imaginable – ‘Oh well, the Doctor can just climb down and pick it up.’ ‘Oh, she got out.’ ‘Oh, actually it did.’’Oh, just cover your face and leg it.’ None of it’s tied to the plot, none of it changes the direction. Hell, even the arrival of the Supreme Dalek is just something to distract us with, as he doesn’t do anything at all either. Apart from blind himself every time he speaks.
And then it’s all over. Jo’s mate asks her to go back to Skaro, after they’ve displayed less chemistry than a broken Bunsen burner (I mean, is it even supposed to be a romance?). Jo declines, which turns out to be the right decision because, typically of the story, Latep (all right, I looked it up) seems not to be bothered in the slightest by this, heading straight off to the spaceship with nary a tear or backward glance.
All in all, it’s a wasted opportunity. Frontier promises, and Planet just doesn’t deliver. And not only that, it actively, consciously doesn’t deliver, it’s about not delivering. Which is hardly a good thing.
Dorney
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#762 7 Jan 2009, 1:01 pm
fortmap
fool's gold
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Re: Day by Day
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And yet Planet of the Daleks was the story that made a fan. Well - the novelisation, to be precise.
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Frontier in Space
19 Aug 2008, 11:17 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Actually, that guilted me up a bit...
Frontier in Space 1:
Out of all my Doctor Who videos Frontier in Space is unique. It's the only VHS which I've left the price label on since the day I got it. I'm still not sure why. Tradition, probably. The irony is that it's one of the few in my collection that I didn't actually buy. I didn't steal it, don't panic, don't call the police. I won it in a DWM caption competition. The picture was one of Mel in the Paradise Towers pool with the yellow cleaner. My caption was " 'ere love - wanna look at my mussels". Hilarious. I'd like to remind you that these days people have been known to pay me to write comedy. I can't believe it either. (For those of you who are interested, the main winner that got published in the mag was: 'Of course, in custard I'm completely undetectable' which is genuinely amusing).
I mention all this as a way of filling in time because Frontier 1 is an odd episode, odd for reasons that lodged themselves in my mind the very first time I saw it. If you watch it, try to do so without checking out the timing or the clock. You see, I reckon that it will end significantly before you expect it to, as that’s what happened the first time I saw it.
You see, it's one of the least eventful episodes of Who I've ever seen. The Doctor and Jo arrive on a spaceship, that the Ogrons raid (disguised as Draconians), then they leave. That’s it. We don't even see the majority of the raid as all of the characters are unconscious throughout (one of the humans is knocked out, hilariously, because the Doctor uncharacteristically throws him at the attakers the moment they burst in). There’s a couple of world building chats between the crewmen, and politics on Earth, but it’s kind of hard to remember exactly what is said in them for more than about ten seconds.
And yet… it’s not boring. Somewhat uselessly, I’m not exactly sure why. Usually an episode can fill with character development and detail… but here, there doesn’t seem that much of it. I’m not sure what’s taking up the time.
I’m wondering if it’s actually the amount of plot packed in, despite little going on. Bear in mind that the central mystery of the initial episode (the mistaken identities of the Doctor, Jo, the Ogrons and the crewmen) is solved by the Doctor pretty instantly. OK, it’s all a lot of talk, but it’s plot advancing talk. Now, whilst this may be the story’s entire story blown in seconds (though I’m not convinced that Hulke could make that failing), it does mean that it’s entertaining. And, I suppose that the revelations do make you question something new – the villain’s motivation. In deed, there’s something quite intriguing about the initial mystery not being ‘what’ is going on, but ‘why’.
So a good start, if low key and not exactly memorable, it still manages to be engaging and interesting.
Dorney
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#732 21 Aug 2008, 7:06 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Yay! I know we've had our spats in the current-affairs threads, well one of them anyway, but it is a genuine delight to read your thoughts, Chairman Dorney, especially with the episodes relatively fresh in my mind. You do have genuine insight and really help me to crystallise my own perception of them as a result - you give a perspective which allows me to frame where I stand on elements of the story, instead of being unaware why certain things in its execution or its apparent intent delight me or niggle. That's not to say I mirror your reactions to every bit, of course. But I do like it when you look anew at an unpopular episode and find something of interest. I enjoyed Frontier very much, and if you have any trouble 'backing up' your VHSs of any stories where necessary, well *cough* there are means, let me know...
Are you approaching this DWM 'Time Team'-stylee, pretending not to know what is coming next at least in story terms? Seems sensible - preserving the fresh viewing perspective you've brought to it so far makes sense. But what about production details, for instance when it is Roger Delgado's final story (not that I'm saying this is, of course!) do you pay more attention to how well he is employed and hark back to how his 'arc' (for want of another term) has played out against the series as a whole? Do you find yourself watching for certain scenes of, shall we say, historical repute or disrepute or take everything as it comes?
"Frontier" was an unknown to me beyond the Hulke novelisation. And I think the Pertwee era stands up robustly in written form - as inventive and satisfying a collection of adventures as in any other era of the show. Back in the 70s-mid 80s there was no other way to judge it (bar a dodgy VHS of "Day"). Regardless of execution, I find Hulke's stories to be worthy (and not always dull. Except 'Colony/Doomsday Weapon', obviously - only an Earth 2 producer could admire that). The political machinations, misplaced distrust and deceit formed a Master plan worthy of great enjoyment, and the return of the Ogrons was an early fanboy frisson too. Somehow I felt the Daleks must be around the corner, especially as Vorg had pointed out/reminded us one story before that the Ogrons were their servants... there's also some nice design to enjoy in this story, always a boon to someone like me who preferred visual imagination over plodding plot necessity.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#733 21 Aug 2008, 10:53 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Yay! I know we've had our spats in the current-affairs threads, well one of them anyway,
You know, except in one or two relentless cases, I can never really remember having 'spats' with anyone!
Quote:
Are you approaching this DWM 'Time Team'-stylee, pretending not to know what is coming next at least in story terms?
I do slightly view it in the overall context of what I know about the show, later episodes. The problem there, is that these are the only classic series episodes I've watched in 5 years (well, with three exceptions - two stories, Invasion and DMP where I did watch newly found/recreated episodes, but in both cases I'd already watched them - the other more recently, and I'll keep that to myself for the moment). And even then, a lot I won't have seen for years before then. So to a degree, I'm coming at them fresh. So, with Frontier, for example, I can remember the odd cliffhanger, the presence of the Master and the Daleks... but that's about it. So it's an odd combination of knowing what's coming up and not having a clue.
Dorney
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#734 23 Aug 2008, 11:17 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Sadly I can remember most Who episodes like the back of my hand (I wish I could erase most of my knowledge of it to make way for my degree, but alas...). It was quite exciting to get the Reign of Terror CD recently as I'd never heard episodes 4 and 5 before, nor had I seen the other episodes in years. Then I realised the story is completely pants.
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#735 23 Aug 2008, 3:32 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
You know, except in one or two relentless cases, I can never really remember having 'spats' with anyone!
True, thinking about it I was probably disagreeing with someone else but Tenth Planet tends to polarise everything into two "camps" on every issue and in one thread I was definitely in the other "camp"! Nice to return to more pleasant corners of the forum...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#736 24 Aug 2008, 2:01 pm
mircalla
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Re: Day by Day
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I hope you won't mind the interruption but as one who's Dr Who collection is so far from complete that a review like this is impossible, I wanted to say that reading this thread is giving me a great deal of enjoyment. As I read the comments I can either return to my own vhs / DVD or relive the episode in my head.
However, AlMiles, if Androzani, Talons, Genesis and Inferno belong to adolescent boys, I've been carrying on a successful masquerade for many years!! I do agree with you about the impact of mood. My list would certainly be different to that in the Torygraph but for varying reasons on different days. My real quibble would be why isn't Invasion in there somewhere. I find myself returning again and again to the Troughton videos and DVDs that I own, remembering what an excellent Doctor 2 was. I was besotted with the programme from the first episode but I think that when Pat Troughton arrived I began to love the Doctor and have managed to do so ever since.
I do occasionally, after visiting the forum, wonder if I am too uncritical as I find something to love in every story when it does at times seem as if some longer-standing forum members positively hate something I've just enjoyed but have decided to be philosophical - after all, I'm not claiming that any of it is perfect or that I can't perceive any flaws, just that it is always worthwhile. I'm currently avoiding completing a dissertation and running out of time as I write this (instead of the 14,000 words I have to complete by Friday!) because I'm helping my stress by running as much Who as possible with the occasional intrusion of Star Trek or Stargate Atlantis and am left feeling that Doctor Who, overall, achieves a quality of inspiration, variety and imagination that nothing else approaches - as near to perfect as we are likely to get.
Also, before I shut up, did want to congratulate Dorney on a wonderful description of why Carnival of the Monsters works so well.
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#737 30 Aug 2008, 3:09 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 2:
One of the problems of writing this thread is that occassionally you'll watch an episode and then just not have the time to write up the review before going off to do other things. Case in point, I watched Frontier in Space around about the 22nd August. But because of various things I had to go off and do, I didn't get to write it up immediately. So it gets put off. And then, of course, the further you get away from it, the harder it is to remember precisely what it was you liked or disliked about the episode. Making the review harder to write still, and meaning you put it off a bit more, leading into a fairly vicious circle.
Sometimes, however, that doesn't matter. Sometimes you get lucky. And, quite frankly, I got lucky with Frontier in Space 2. Because this episode is so defined by one basic idea, that that's the only thing I have to remember. This is a Doctor Who episode entirely about the Doctor getting locked up. A lot.
You see, once in a while an episode comes along that is padded so shamelessly you just have to admire it. The Doctor and Jo get imprisoned and released about four or five times in this episode, and it just reaches the point - roughly as the Ogrons storm the human complex disguised as Draconians... as if the Draconians hadn't genuinely raided the same place about five minutes earlier - where the episode is pretty much winking at you. This episode isn't just padded. It's saying 'yeah, I'm padded. So what?'
And once again, it sort of gets by. OK, it's never a classic episode, but prison escapes are sort of fun and by ramming so many on top of each other, it manages to be pacey and fun, despite very little happening. In deed, the weakest bits of the story are those parts where it isn't so shameless - the Doctor's little anecdote about previous experiences with mind-probes is a little bit forced and uncomfortable, reminding me a little of my least favourite bit of padding ever (Vicki and the magic castle from the Chase). By pretending to have a point it actually comes over far worse than the pointless running around bits do, which is daft but possessed of a strange sort of sense.
That's not to say the episode is completely shallow, of course. The interrogation scenes (with the Doctor basically reiterating what we already know) are engaging, and the repetition actually helps - because it grants the show a decent stab at realism with nothing immediately turning up to cause anyone to believe him. Of course he'd be held in prison for yonks. And the Draconians are already a striking and interesting alien - and a bemusingly non-recurring one at that.
But, ultimately, this episode is about prison cells. And far more entertaining than that sounds.
Dorney
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#738 30 Aug 2008, 11:24 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 3:
Of course, there is just taking the piss.
After the hilariously rubbish resolution to the cliffhanger (emphasising it's pointlessness by not advancing the plot an inch and being resolved in about five seconds flat - a fabulous contrast to the desperate padding of part two's two minute reprise), we get an awful lot more imprisonment.
Well, that's not fair. It's just one imprisonment, but it goes on quite a bit. Basically, to break the monotony of the last episodes batch of cells, we get the Doctor sent to a lunar penal colony. And it's odd, because it seems as well that he's sent to a completely different plot.
There's an awful lot of discussion about the Peace Party (and in deed, riots elsewhere are referred to in the main plot, both in dialogue and footage, although this is admittedly anti-Draconian), and we're clearly meant to judge this as being the victims of a fairly fascist society... but this is problematic as the society we've met up to this point isn't bad. OK, General Williams is portrayed as fairly one-note heavy militarist, but the Earth president... well, she seems to be a decent enough sort. There's no real sense of dictatorship, and her natural inclination is towards peace to a degree that is almost ridiculous (I mean, think about it - none of us are keen on war, but a woman in her position is supposed to make those hard decisions for us. With Draconians raiding and killing her subjects, breaking into her facilities and murdering people, her avoidance of declaring war seems overly pacifistic - fortuitous for the plot, obviously, due to it being the right choice, but slightly unbelievable in a proper politician).
So given that the state doesn't appear overly fascist, and that the Doctor doesn't seem to be bothered by it, and given that Peace Party never really explain their grievances, and given that the Doctor never really has any interest in helping them out, or bringing down the government - we're left in the slightly unpleasant position of having to wonder if they properly are just a bunch of terrorists. It's genuinely unclear. There's a sense that they're supposed to be sympathetic figures - the bizarrely performed Dale taking the Doctor on his escape with him for the greater good - but without anything to justify their position, and with the Doctor not condemning and fighting against their permanent incarceration (he doesn't want to free them, he just wants to get out himself) what are we supposed to take from this?
Well, confused material aside, it still manages to be entertaining. It’s a miracle this story. I suppose it helps that prisons are inherently tense, and whilst the story refuses to progress (the 3rd Doctor no further along in the plot at the end of this episode than two parts ago), it has an inherent dramatic tension. In many ways it feels like a little side adventure (mainly due to it forgetting the Draconians completely), and that’s probably why it works. Yes, it’s padding, but it’s dramatic padding – it’s roughly the same as the Doctor’s mind-probe story in the last episode, but it’s acted out, and it’s comparative success proves the ‘show, don’t tell’ adage..
Back on Earth, things perk up with the appearance of the Master. Ironically, whilst Jo and the Doctor have been wasting their time, hanging around various irrelevant prisons, the Master’s actually popped over to involve them in the plot himself (he’s clearly bored, and wants to make trouble for himself). He get's one of his most gloriously off-kilter, out of character lines in the series ('for the whole of your natural?'), but generally, he's still fun. Of course, it does mean that most of the remaining mystery of the plot (which there hasn’t been much of since the first ten minutes) is stripped away, so I’m not sure where it can go from here on in.
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#739 5 Sep 2008, 9:12 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Back on Earth, things perk up with the appearance of the Master. Ironically, whilst Jo and the Doctor have been wasting their time, hanging around various irrelevant prisons, the Master’s actually popped over to involve them in the plot himself (he’s clearly bored, and wants to make trouble for himself). He get's one of his most gloriously off-kilter, out of character lines in the series ('for the whole of your natural?'), but generally, he's still fun.
Heheheh. I do love those moments when Delgado allows his natural cockney to break through.
The original Master really was impossible to hate, wasn't he? Gave some credibility to the Doctor always letting him off (and even pleading for him at his post-Daemons trial). Not sure why the later, Universe-entropifying version got the same treatment, that one was clearly mad but this fellas most amusing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#740 9 Oct 2008, 5:43 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Just a quick note to keep everyone informed - I've had some computer difficuls recently, and the problems with starting a new tour have led to me being a bit behind. But rest assured, there should be a good few new episodes reviewed before the Christmas party comes calling. Heck, hopefully before the Halloween party.
All the best.
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#741 11 Oct 2008, 11:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 4:
One of the difficulties with reviewing on an episodic basis, especially with a six parter, is that a lot of the flaws in an story persist and you risk repetition. A repetitious story leads to a repetitious review. Take this one, for example.
Once again, this tale's bizarre insistence on blowing all of its mysteries at the top means there really is no plot to hang on to. We know what's going on, and so it's all just procrastination until the point where the Doctor can switch the plot off. As a result, we've got a series of mini-adventures, all based around the Doctor being locked up somewhere.
Whereas episode three at least manages to do something with this format, seemingly developing it's own one episode storyline, episode four is weaker. By and large just the Master, the Doctor and Jo in a ship, this episode is largely reminiscent of the insanely dumb fourth episode of the Time Monster.
However, unlike that previous atrocity, this one just about works. Just. Whilst the action doesn't really progress the story - the Doctor going through a convuluted attempt to escape, that just ends with him in the Master's power again, before the Draconians arrive and capture them all - it's pitched quite straightforwardly. Sure, it's not massively exciting, but it isn't particularly dull either. And I suppose that does make sense on a certain level. This story, and it's sequel, were intended to be viewed as a twelve part epic, divided in two, reminiscent of DMP. And viewed in that context, it begins to make sense.
As I've probably wittered on about before, an epic doesn't entirely play by the same rules as a regular story. It's less about plot or plot complexity and more about journey. In other words, it doesn't matter if the individual story doesn't shift gears every episode as long as plenty of stuff happens along the way. A full journey. We need to feel that getting through this is dangerous and complicated. It's not about the characters minds, it's about their endurance.
So it doesn't really matter if the set pieces don't entirely progress the story, as long as they work well enough as set pieces. And by and large, so far, they do.
Oh, before I finish, one quick note. There's some lovely direction in this episode - the idea of the Master using his own security cameras to contact the Doctor on the bridge is decent enough - but the lovely touch is that when he starts, we cut to him broadcasting to an empty bridge, with the implication of the Doctor having already rushed off the bridge to help Jo. It's a terrific way to convey energy and pace.
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#742 13 Oct 2008, 11:53 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 5:
After a fairly empty episode, we get to one that's fairly packed. With episodes one and four in particular being plotted almost entirely about single set pieces, this one is basically all go, and more reminiscent of episode two's frenetic series of capture escapes. Like that episode, there's a faint sense of pointless sound and fury (we don't really need two seperate, and swiftly resolved, Ogron raids - they could quite easily grab Jo at the first attempt with about the same effect). Equally, the increased pace does rather mean that a lot of the realism goes out the window - after loads of episodes of long journeys across time and space, with the Master needing a sleep before getting to the Draconian homeworld, they manage to get back to Earth in about half an hour.
Oddly though, they do manage to get quite a bit of half-decent drama in there. The scenes in the Draconian palace are well put together, and take a realistic approach to the logic of how people would react to the Doctor's claims. Neatly, they're almost exactly the same as the earlier scenes (again in episode two) which is either a gorgeous bit of mirroring or a bit of lazy characterisation depending on your perspective (the Draconian emperor is, like the president, conveniently unwilling to act). OK, this realistic approach is disappointingly resolved by the Master having to turn into a bit of a moron, overlooking something rather obvious in a contrived manner. Heck, it technically resolves the main problem of the serial, with proof that the Ogrons are faking the entire war, and is far too simple (and in deed, arbitrary, with the Doctor being pretty much a bystander) as a conclusion to the plot motor. But this sequence and the follow up sequence where the general realises how he made a mistake earlier (in a manner alarmingly reminiscent of Babylon 5) are genuinely interesting character exploration in a way the rest of the story really isn't.
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#743 14 Oct 2008, 12:37 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
(in a manner alarmingly reminiscent of Babylon 5)
Well its creator was a fan of British TV, certainly Blakes 7 and The Prisoner, so no doubt he wouldn't have minded also borrowing from a show transmitted in between those two.
And US science fiction series don't mind plundering the Pertwee era for their own means - right up to entire stories, settings, characters and plots being identical. Just look at "Earth 2".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#744 14 Oct 2008, 6:23 pm
The White Guardian
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Re: Day by Day
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I've just browsed through your recent reviews and loved them! I can't wait to see your reactions to TB's stories.
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#745 24 Oct 2008, 10:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 6:
There’s something a little… disappointing about this episode. Something dispiriting. Because if ever there was an episode of Who that defined ‘less than the sum of its parts’… well, it’s this one.
It should be great. It’s the mid point of an epic, the culmination of one story thread before another launches off. We’ve had five episodes of scale and prisons, build up and build up. Then a climax at the villains base, surprise Daleks. Done right, this should have been a classic episode. So why isn’t it?
Well one is that the episode doesn’t quite feel like a climax. On one level it isn’t, of course, as the story does continue into the next. But that’s the central difficulty with pitching it as two distinctly different tales, with wholly different plots. On some level the first one has to end properly. There’s a real sense of indecision about this episode. Is it just another part of a longer tale… or the end of one half of it?
The disconnect is obvious from the opening. We’re in the final episode – everything should be hurtling to a climax. There’s no time for sub-plots. So why do we waste time in the first few minutes with a staggeringly generic Draconian attack on the Doctor’s ship?
Actually, to be fair, I can tell why it’s there. There are only two strands in the plot at the moment (the Jo half and the Doctor half) and there’s got to be something to cut to. Equally, given the amount of time this story has spent emphasising the time element of space travel, the Doctor’s plotline jumping directly from Earth to the Ogron planet would seem ridiculous, so something has to happen en route. But it’s all done in a rushed way (this sort of thing pretty much took up the whole of episodes one and four – probably a bit too far the other way, but you know what I mean). Equally, it’s fairly nonsensically presented – would the Earth authorities really not warn Draconia there was a special ship coming through? And they keep trying out excuses why the Draconian prince they have on the ship can’t just call them off: ‘they won’t take the time to listen’, ‘they’ll be hard to persuade’. Wouldn’t you at least, y’know, try? Personally, I think it would have made a lot more sense to cut down some of the more padded material of episode four, shunted the episodes along a bit (we’d only miss out on some rubbish cliffhangers) and left the entire last episode a battle for survival on the Ogron homeworld.
And that does kind of lead to a general criticism of the episode. A lot happens… but most of it doesn’t have a point. There’s precious little sense of why it’s going on. As with the absent attempts to hail the Draconians who attack, the Earth president doesn’t try and persuade the people that they’re actually under attack from a third party on the basis that they’ve got no evidence. So she sends soldiers across the galaxy to the villain’s base, where they get killed or locked up. Then the Doctor sends them back home to try and persuade their respective people’s of the truth. But they still don’t have any evidence. The entire trip across the galaxy has no point.
Likewise, the Master allows Jo to escape, so she can broadcast a message to the Doctor as a trap. She broadcasts on a short wave radio that only he can hear (as the Master has detected his ship approaching). This way, says the Master, when the Doctor arrives, they’ll be ready for him.
But hold on – he’s broadcast on a short wave radio to a ship that he knows the Doctor is on, that he knows is approaching them? So surely he doesn’t need Jo to broadcast a signal in order to be ready for the Doctor. He already knows the Doctor is there. How much more readiness does he require? What new information does he gain from Jo’s ‘trap’? Why doesn’t he just shoot the ship down? OK, I know he comes up with a lame excuse to the Daleks – he wants the Doctor to watch the war - but, really, that’s just the Master being a cretin, as he was perfectly happy to kill the Doctor simply a few episodes ago.
And speaking of the Daleks, what the hell are they doing here? They don’t do anything! Yes, it’s a great reveal, but what’s the logic behind it? They travel through space, half a dozen of them or so, have a brief chat with the Master then sod off again. It’s like they’re the foreman of a building site popping in to check that the builders are still doing they’re job. It’s a bit rubbish isn’t it? Though it does lead to one of the most delightful lines in the series – we catch the tail end of a conversation the Master’s having over the radio with them when they’ve left which starts with him saying ‘There’s nothing to worry about.’ To a DALEK. As if just after leaving they’ve phoned him up in a panic. Like a nervy mum.
It’s all basically about trying to make it look big and exciting to conceal the fact that there’s no actual ending. And when I say that, I’m not talking about the damb squib/ vanishing Master/weird editing thing. Nothing actually happens that concludes the plot. We have to assume that the Draconians and the Humans are going to make peace.
It’s a shame, because a proper conclusion would have tied it all together, and made the episodic nature feel part of a whole. As it is, I’m just going to have to take it in part with Planet and see how that works.
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#746 28 Nov 2008, 6:49 pm
skinsale2
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Re: Day by Day
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I originally sent this post as a private message but I couldn't so I will have to post it here. Dorney I would like to thank you for your awesome reviews as they have inspired me to write my own on The Doctor Who Ratings Guide. So thank you Dorney for inspiring me to do something interesting for a change
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#747 29 Nov 2008, 8:45 am
Doctor von Wer
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Re: Day by Day
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Haha, amazing; I started on my own quest last week. My topic is in this forum, too:
http://www.doctorwhoforum.com/showthread.php?t=209297
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Last edited by Doctor von Wer; 29 Nov 2008 at 8:51 am. Reason: Added link.
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#748 30 Nov 2008, 4:11 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Now I feel guilty for slackness. Right then. Planet of the Daleks next week. Seriously.
Many thanks for the nice comments, btw.
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Re: Day by Day
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Actually, that guilted me up a bit...
Frontier in Space 1:
Out of all my Doctor Who videos Frontier in Space is unique. It's the only VHS which I've left the price label on since the day I got it. I'm still not sure why. Tradition, probably. The irony is that it's one of the few in my collection that I didn't actually buy. I didn't steal it, don't panic, don't call the police. I won it in a DWM caption competition. The picture was one of Mel in the Paradise Towers pool with the yellow cleaner. My caption was " 'ere love - wanna look at my mussels". Hilarious. I'd like to remind you that these days people have been known to pay me to write comedy. I can't believe it either. (For those of you who are interested, the main winner that got published in the mag was: 'Of course, in custard I'm completely undetectable' which is genuinely amusing).
I mention all this as a way of filling in time because Frontier 1 is an odd episode, odd for reasons that lodged themselves in my mind the very first time I saw it. If you watch it, try to do so without checking out the timing or the clock. You see, I reckon that it will end significantly before you expect it to, as that’s what happened the first time I saw it.
You see, it's one of the least eventful episodes of Who I've ever seen. The Doctor and Jo arrive on a spaceship, that the Ogrons raid (disguised as Draconians), then they leave. That’s it. We don't even see the majority of the raid as all of the characters are unconscious throughout (one of the humans is knocked out, hilariously, because the Doctor uncharacteristically throws him at the attakers the moment they burst in). There’s a couple of world building chats between the crewmen, and politics on Earth, but it’s kind of hard to remember exactly what is said in them for more than about ten seconds.
And yet… it’s not boring. Somewhat uselessly, I’m not exactly sure why. Usually an episode can fill with character development and detail… but here, there doesn’t seem that much of it. I’m not sure what’s taking up the time.
I’m wondering if it’s actually the amount of plot packed in, despite little going on. Bear in mind that the central mystery of the initial episode (the mistaken identities of the Doctor, Jo, the Ogrons and the crewmen) is solved by the Doctor pretty instantly. OK, it’s all a lot of talk, but it’s plot advancing talk. Now, whilst this may be the story’s entire story blown in seconds (though I’m not convinced that Hulke could make that failing), it does mean that it’s entertaining. And, I suppose that the revelations do make you question something new – the villain’s motivation. In deed, there’s something quite intriguing about the initial mystery not being ‘what’ is going on, but ‘why’.
So a good start, if low key and not exactly memorable, it still manages to be engaging and interesting.
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#732 21 Aug 2008, 7:06 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Yay! I know we've had our spats in the current-affairs threads, well one of them anyway, but it is a genuine delight to read your thoughts, Chairman Dorney, especially with the episodes relatively fresh in my mind. You do have genuine insight and really help me to crystallise my own perception of them as a result - you give a perspective which allows me to frame where I stand on elements of the story, instead of being unaware why certain things in its execution or its apparent intent delight me or niggle. That's not to say I mirror your reactions to every bit, of course. But I do like it when you look anew at an unpopular episode and find something of interest. I enjoyed Frontier very much, and if you have any trouble 'backing up' your VHSs of any stories where necessary, well *cough* there are means, let me know...
Are you approaching this DWM 'Time Team'-stylee, pretending not to know what is coming next at least in story terms? Seems sensible - preserving the fresh viewing perspective you've brought to it so far makes sense. But what about production details, for instance when it is Roger Delgado's final story (not that I'm saying this is, of course!) do you pay more attention to how well he is employed and hark back to how his 'arc' (for want of another term) has played out against the series as a whole? Do you find yourself watching for certain scenes of, shall we say, historical repute or disrepute or take everything as it comes?
"Frontier" was an unknown to me beyond the Hulke novelisation. And I think the Pertwee era stands up robustly in written form - as inventive and satisfying a collection of adventures as in any other era of the show. Back in the 70s-mid 80s there was no other way to judge it (bar a dodgy VHS of "Day"). Regardless of execution, I find Hulke's stories to be worthy (and not always dull. Except 'Colony/Doomsday Weapon', obviously - only an Earth 2 producer could admire that). The political machinations, misplaced distrust and deceit formed a Master plan worthy of great enjoyment, and the return of the Ogrons was an early fanboy frisson too. Somehow I felt the Daleks must be around the corner, especially as Vorg had pointed out/reminded us one story before that the Ogrons were their servants... there's also some nice design to enjoy in this story, always a boon to someone like me who preferred visual imagination over plodding plot necessity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#733 21 Aug 2008, 10:53 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Yay! I know we've had our spats in the current-affairs threads, well one of them anyway,
You know, except in one or two relentless cases, I can never really remember having 'spats' with anyone!
Quote:
Are you approaching this DWM 'Time Team'-stylee, pretending not to know what is coming next at least in story terms?
I do slightly view it in the overall context of what I know about the show, later episodes. The problem there, is that these are the only classic series episodes I've watched in 5 years (well, with three exceptions - two stories, Invasion and DMP where I did watch newly found/recreated episodes, but in both cases I'd already watched them - the other more recently, and I'll keep that to myself for the moment). And even then, a lot I won't have seen for years before then. So to a degree, I'm coming at them fresh. So, with Frontier, for example, I can remember the odd cliffhanger, the presence of the Master and the Daleks... but that's about it. So it's an odd combination of knowing what's coming up and not having a clue.
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#734 23 Aug 2008, 11:17 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Sadly I can remember most Who episodes like the back of my hand (I wish I could erase most of my knowledge of it to make way for my degree, but alas...). It was quite exciting to get the Reign of Terror CD recently as I'd never heard episodes 4 and 5 before, nor had I seen the other episodes in years. Then I realised the story is completely pants.
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#735 23 Aug 2008, 3:32 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
You know, except in one or two relentless cases, I can never really remember having 'spats' with anyone!
True, thinking about it I was probably disagreeing with someone else but Tenth Planet tends to polarise everything into two "camps" on every issue and in one thread I was definitely in the other "camp"! Nice to return to more pleasant corners of the forum...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#736 24 Aug 2008, 2:01 pm
mircalla
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Re: Day by Day
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I hope you won't mind the interruption but as one who's Dr Who collection is so far from complete that a review like this is impossible, I wanted to say that reading this thread is giving me a great deal of enjoyment. As I read the comments I can either return to my own vhs / DVD or relive the episode in my head.
However, AlMiles, if Androzani, Talons, Genesis and Inferno belong to adolescent boys, I've been carrying on a successful masquerade for many years!! I do agree with you about the impact of mood. My list would certainly be different to that in the Torygraph but for varying reasons on different days. My real quibble would be why isn't Invasion in there somewhere. I find myself returning again and again to the Troughton videos and DVDs that I own, remembering what an excellent Doctor 2 was. I was besotted with the programme from the first episode but I think that when Pat Troughton arrived I began to love the Doctor and have managed to do so ever since.
I do occasionally, after visiting the forum, wonder if I am too uncritical as I find something to love in every story when it does at times seem as if some longer-standing forum members positively hate something I've just enjoyed but have decided to be philosophical - after all, I'm not claiming that any of it is perfect or that I can't perceive any flaws, just that it is always worthwhile. I'm currently avoiding completing a dissertation and running out of time as I write this (instead of the 14,000 words I have to complete by Friday!) because I'm helping my stress by running as much Who as possible with the occasional intrusion of Star Trek or Stargate Atlantis and am left feeling that Doctor Who, overall, achieves a quality of inspiration, variety and imagination that nothing else approaches - as near to perfect as we are likely to get.
Also, before I shut up, did want to congratulate Dorney on a wonderful description of why Carnival of the Monsters works so well.
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#737 30 Aug 2008, 3:09 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 2:
One of the problems of writing this thread is that occassionally you'll watch an episode and then just not have the time to write up the review before going off to do other things. Case in point, I watched Frontier in Space around about the 22nd August. But because of various things I had to go off and do, I didn't get to write it up immediately. So it gets put off. And then, of course, the further you get away from it, the harder it is to remember precisely what it was you liked or disliked about the episode. Making the review harder to write still, and meaning you put it off a bit more, leading into a fairly vicious circle.
Sometimes, however, that doesn't matter. Sometimes you get lucky. And, quite frankly, I got lucky with Frontier in Space 2. Because this episode is so defined by one basic idea, that that's the only thing I have to remember. This is a Doctor Who episode entirely about the Doctor getting locked up. A lot.
You see, once in a while an episode comes along that is padded so shamelessly you just have to admire it. The Doctor and Jo get imprisoned and released about four or five times in this episode, and it just reaches the point - roughly as the Ogrons storm the human complex disguised as Draconians... as if the Draconians hadn't genuinely raided the same place about five minutes earlier - where the episode is pretty much winking at you. This episode isn't just padded. It's saying 'yeah, I'm padded. So what?'
And once again, it sort of gets by. OK, it's never a classic episode, but prison escapes are sort of fun and by ramming so many on top of each other, it manages to be pacey and fun, despite very little happening. In deed, the weakest bits of the story are those parts where it isn't so shameless - the Doctor's little anecdote about previous experiences with mind-probes is a little bit forced and uncomfortable, reminding me a little of my least favourite bit of padding ever (Vicki and the magic castle from the Chase). By pretending to have a point it actually comes over far worse than the pointless running around bits do, which is daft but possessed of a strange sort of sense.
That's not to say the episode is completely shallow, of course. The interrogation scenes (with the Doctor basically reiterating what we already know) are engaging, and the repetition actually helps - because it grants the show a decent stab at realism with nothing immediately turning up to cause anyone to believe him. Of course he'd be held in prison for yonks. And the Draconians are already a striking and interesting alien - and a bemusingly non-recurring one at that.
But, ultimately, this episode is about prison cells. And far more entertaining than that sounds.
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#738 30 Aug 2008, 11:24 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 3:
Of course, there is just taking the piss.
After the hilariously rubbish resolution to the cliffhanger (emphasising it's pointlessness by not advancing the plot an inch and being resolved in about five seconds flat - a fabulous contrast to the desperate padding of part two's two minute reprise), we get an awful lot more imprisonment.
Well, that's not fair. It's just one imprisonment, but it goes on quite a bit. Basically, to break the monotony of the last episodes batch of cells, we get the Doctor sent to a lunar penal colony. And it's odd, because it seems as well that he's sent to a completely different plot.
There's an awful lot of discussion about the Peace Party (and in deed, riots elsewhere are referred to in the main plot, both in dialogue and footage, although this is admittedly anti-Draconian), and we're clearly meant to judge this as being the victims of a fairly fascist society... but this is problematic as the society we've met up to this point isn't bad. OK, General Williams is portrayed as fairly one-note heavy militarist, but the Earth president... well, she seems to be a decent enough sort. There's no real sense of dictatorship, and her natural inclination is towards peace to a degree that is almost ridiculous (I mean, think about it - none of us are keen on war, but a woman in her position is supposed to make those hard decisions for us. With Draconians raiding and killing her subjects, breaking into her facilities and murdering people, her avoidance of declaring war seems overly pacifistic - fortuitous for the plot, obviously, due to it being the right choice, but slightly unbelievable in a proper politician).
So given that the state doesn't appear overly fascist, and that the Doctor doesn't seem to be bothered by it, and given that Peace Party never really explain their grievances, and given that the Doctor never really has any interest in helping them out, or bringing down the government - we're left in the slightly unpleasant position of having to wonder if they properly are just a bunch of terrorists. It's genuinely unclear. There's a sense that they're supposed to be sympathetic figures - the bizarrely performed Dale taking the Doctor on his escape with him for the greater good - but without anything to justify their position, and with the Doctor not condemning and fighting against their permanent incarceration (he doesn't want to free them, he just wants to get out himself) what are we supposed to take from this?
Well, confused material aside, it still manages to be entertaining. It’s a miracle this story. I suppose it helps that prisons are inherently tense, and whilst the story refuses to progress (the 3rd Doctor no further along in the plot at the end of this episode than two parts ago), it has an inherent dramatic tension. In many ways it feels like a little side adventure (mainly due to it forgetting the Draconians completely), and that’s probably why it works. Yes, it’s padding, but it’s dramatic padding – it’s roughly the same as the Doctor’s mind-probe story in the last episode, but it’s acted out, and it’s comparative success proves the ‘show, don’t tell’ adage..
Back on Earth, things perk up with the appearance of the Master. Ironically, whilst Jo and the Doctor have been wasting their time, hanging around various irrelevant prisons, the Master’s actually popped over to involve them in the plot himself (he’s clearly bored, and wants to make trouble for himself). He get's one of his most gloriously off-kilter, out of character lines in the series ('for the whole of your natural?'), but generally, he's still fun. Of course, it does mean that most of the remaining mystery of the plot (which there hasn’t been much of since the first ten minutes) is stripped away, so I’m not sure where it can go from here on in.
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#739 5 Sep 2008, 9:12 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Back on Earth, things perk up with the appearance of the Master. Ironically, whilst Jo and the Doctor have been wasting their time, hanging around various irrelevant prisons, the Master’s actually popped over to involve them in the plot himself (he’s clearly bored, and wants to make trouble for himself). He get's one of his most gloriously off-kilter, out of character lines in the series ('for the whole of your natural?'), but generally, he's still fun.
Heheheh. I do love those moments when Delgado allows his natural cockney to break through.
The original Master really was impossible to hate, wasn't he? Gave some credibility to the Doctor always letting him off (and even pleading for him at his post-Daemons trial). Not sure why the later, Universe-entropifying version got the same treatment, that one was clearly mad but this fellas most amusing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#740 9 Oct 2008, 5:43 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Just a quick note to keep everyone informed - I've had some computer difficuls recently, and the problems with starting a new tour have led to me being a bit behind. But rest assured, there should be a good few new episodes reviewed before the Christmas party comes calling. Heck, hopefully before the Halloween party.
All the best.
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#741 11 Oct 2008, 11:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 4:
One of the difficulties with reviewing on an episodic basis, especially with a six parter, is that a lot of the flaws in an story persist and you risk repetition. A repetitious story leads to a repetitious review. Take this one, for example.
Once again, this tale's bizarre insistence on blowing all of its mysteries at the top means there really is no plot to hang on to. We know what's going on, and so it's all just procrastination until the point where the Doctor can switch the plot off. As a result, we've got a series of mini-adventures, all based around the Doctor being locked up somewhere.
Whereas episode three at least manages to do something with this format, seemingly developing it's own one episode storyline, episode four is weaker. By and large just the Master, the Doctor and Jo in a ship, this episode is largely reminiscent of the insanely dumb fourth episode of the Time Monster.
However, unlike that previous atrocity, this one just about works. Just. Whilst the action doesn't really progress the story - the Doctor going through a convuluted attempt to escape, that just ends with him in the Master's power again, before the Draconians arrive and capture them all - it's pitched quite straightforwardly. Sure, it's not massively exciting, but it isn't particularly dull either. And I suppose that does make sense on a certain level. This story, and it's sequel, were intended to be viewed as a twelve part epic, divided in two, reminiscent of DMP. And viewed in that context, it begins to make sense.
As I've probably wittered on about before, an epic doesn't entirely play by the same rules as a regular story. It's less about plot or plot complexity and more about journey. In other words, it doesn't matter if the individual story doesn't shift gears every episode as long as plenty of stuff happens along the way. A full journey. We need to feel that getting through this is dangerous and complicated. It's not about the characters minds, it's about their endurance.
So it doesn't really matter if the set pieces don't entirely progress the story, as long as they work well enough as set pieces. And by and large, so far, they do.
Oh, before I finish, one quick note. There's some lovely direction in this episode - the idea of the Master using his own security cameras to contact the Doctor on the bridge is decent enough - but the lovely touch is that when he starts, we cut to him broadcasting to an empty bridge, with the implication of the Doctor having already rushed off the bridge to help Jo. It's a terrific way to convey energy and pace.
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#742 13 Oct 2008, 11:53 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 5:
After a fairly empty episode, we get to one that's fairly packed. With episodes one and four in particular being plotted almost entirely about single set pieces, this one is basically all go, and more reminiscent of episode two's frenetic series of capture escapes. Like that episode, there's a faint sense of pointless sound and fury (we don't really need two seperate, and swiftly resolved, Ogron raids - they could quite easily grab Jo at the first attempt with about the same effect). Equally, the increased pace does rather mean that a lot of the realism goes out the window - after loads of episodes of long journeys across time and space, with the Master needing a sleep before getting to the Draconian homeworld, they manage to get back to Earth in about half an hour.
Oddly though, they do manage to get quite a bit of half-decent drama in there. The scenes in the Draconian palace are well put together, and take a realistic approach to the logic of how people would react to the Doctor's claims. Neatly, they're almost exactly the same as the earlier scenes (again in episode two) which is either a gorgeous bit of mirroring or a bit of lazy characterisation depending on your perspective (the Draconian emperor is, like the president, conveniently unwilling to act). OK, this realistic approach is disappointingly resolved by the Master having to turn into a bit of a moron, overlooking something rather obvious in a contrived manner. Heck, it technically resolves the main problem of the serial, with proof that the Ogrons are faking the entire war, and is far too simple (and in deed, arbitrary, with the Doctor being pretty much a bystander) as a conclusion to the plot motor. But this sequence and the follow up sequence where the general realises how he made a mistake earlier (in a manner alarmingly reminiscent of Babylon 5) are genuinely interesting character exploration in a way the rest of the story really isn't.
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#743 14 Oct 2008, 12:37 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
(in a manner alarmingly reminiscent of Babylon 5)
Well its creator was a fan of British TV, certainly Blakes 7 and The Prisoner, so no doubt he wouldn't have minded also borrowing from a show transmitted in between those two.
And US science fiction series don't mind plundering the Pertwee era for their own means - right up to entire stories, settings, characters and plots being identical. Just look at "Earth 2".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#744 14 Oct 2008, 6:23 pm
The White Guardian
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Re: Day by Day
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I've just browsed through your recent reviews and loved them! I can't wait to see your reactions to TB's stories.
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#745 24 Oct 2008, 10:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Frontier in Space 6:
There’s something a little… disappointing about this episode. Something dispiriting. Because if ever there was an episode of Who that defined ‘less than the sum of its parts’… well, it’s this one.
It should be great. It’s the mid point of an epic, the culmination of one story thread before another launches off. We’ve had five episodes of scale and prisons, build up and build up. Then a climax at the villains base, surprise Daleks. Done right, this should have been a classic episode. So why isn’t it?
Well one is that the episode doesn’t quite feel like a climax. On one level it isn’t, of course, as the story does continue into the next. But that’s the central difficulty with pitching it as two distinctly different tales, with wholly different plots. On some level the first one has to end properly. There’s a real sense of indecision about this episode. Is it just another part of a longer tale… or the end of one half of it?
The disconnect is obvious from the opening. We’re in the final episode – everything should be hurtling to a climax. There’s no time for sub-plots. So why do we waste time in the first few minutes with a staggeringly generic Draconian attack on the Doctor’s ship?
Actually, to be fair, I can tell why it’s there. There are only two strands in the plot at the moment (the Jo half and the Doctor half) and there’s got to be something to cut to. Equally, given the amount of time this story has spent emphasising the time element of space travel, the Doctor’s plotline jumping directly from Earth to the Ogron planet would seem ridiculous, so something has to happen en route. But it’s all done in a rushed way (this sort of thing pretty much took up the whole of episodes one and four – probably a bit too far the other way, but you know what I mean). Equally, it’s fairly nonsensically presented – would the Earth authorities really not warn Draconia there was a special ship coming through? And they keep trying out excuses why the Draconian prince they have on the ship can’t just call them off: ‘they won’t take the time to listen’, ‘they’ll be hard to persuade’. Wouldn’t you at least, y’know, try? Personally, I think it would have made a lot more sense to cut down some of the more padded material of episode four, shunted the episodes along a bit (we’d only miss out on some rubbish cliffhangers) and left the entire last episode a battle for survival on the Ogron homeworld.
And that does kind of lead to a general criticism of the episode. A lot happens… but most of it doesn’t have a point. There’s precious little sense of why it’s going on. As with the absent attempts to hail the Draconians who attack, the Earth president doesn’t try and persuade the people that they’re actually under attack from a third party on the basis that they’ve got no evidence. So she sends soldiers across the galaxy to the villain’s base, where they get killed or locked up. Then the Doctor sends them back home to try and persuade their respective people’s of the truth. But they still don’t have any evidence. The entire trip across the galaxy has no point.
Likewise, the Master allows Jo to escape, so she can broadcast a message to the Doctor as a trap. She broadcasts on a short wave radio that only he can hear (as the Master has detected his ship approaching). This way, says the Master, when the Doctor arrives, they’ll be ready for him.
But hold on – he’s broadcast on a short wave radio to a ship that he knows the Doctor is on, that he knows is approaching them? So surely he doesn’t need Jo to broadcast a signal in order to be ready for the Doctor. He already knows the Doctor is there. How much more readiness does he require? What new information does he gain from Jo’s ‘trap’? Why doesn’t he just shoot the ship down? OK, I know he comes up with a lame excuse to the Daleks – he wants the Doctor to watch the war - but, really, that’s just the Master being a cretin, as he was perfectly happy to kill the Doctor simply a few episodes ago.
And speaking of the Daleks, what the hell are they doing here? They don’t do anything! Yes, it’s a great reveal, but what’s the logic behind it? They travel through space, half a dozen of them or so, have a brief chat with the Master then sod off again. It’s like they’re the foreman of a building site popping in to check that the builders are still doing they’re job. It’s a bit rubbish isn’t it? Though it does lead to one of the most delightful lines in the series – we catch the tail end of a conversation the Master’s having over the radio with them when they’ve left which starts with him saying ‘There’s nothing to worry about.’ To a DALEK. As if just after leaving they’ve phoned him up in a panic. Like a nervy mum.
It’s all basically about trying to make it look big and exciting to conceal the fact that there’s no actual ending. And when I say that, I’m not talking about the damb squib/ vanishing Master/weird editing thing. Nothing actually happens that concludes the plot. We have to assume that the Draconians and the Humans are going to make peace.
It’s a shame, because a proper conclusion would have tied it all together, and made the episodic nature feel part of a whole. As it is, I’m just going to have to take it in part with Planet and see how that works.
Dorney
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#746 28 Nov 2008, 6:49 pm
skinsale2
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Re: Day by Day
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I originally sent this post as a private message but I couldn't so I will have to post it here. Dorney I would like to thank you for your awesome reviews as they have inspired me to write my own on The Doctor Who Ratings Guide. So thank you Dorney for inspiring me to do something interesting for a change
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#747 29 Nov 2008, 8:45 am
Doctor von Wer
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Re: Day by Day
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Haha, amazing; I started on my own quest last week. My topic is in this forum, too:
http://www.doctorwhoforum.com/showthread.php?t=209297
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Last edited by Doctor von Wer; 29 Nov 2008 at 8:51 am. Reason: Added link.
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#748 30 Nov 2008, 4:11 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Now I feel guilty for slackness. Right then. Planet of the Daleks next week. Seriously.
Many thanks for the nice comments, btw.
Carnival of Monsters
21 May 2008, 11:29 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 1:
I’m going to start this one by declaring an interest. Carnival of Monsters is the first Doctor Who story I ever saw. Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats, 1981, BBC2. The cliffhanger to episode three leaps out in my memory very clearly (and unlike the third cliffhanger of the Three Doctors, I remember it correctly!).
So obviously I have a certain nostalgic fondness for this story. But putting that aside, trying to be objective… well, it’s still pretty much perfect, isn’t it?
Long time readers of my ramblings may recall that I’ve often suggested that Who fans tend to select what they think of as classics based on how ‘adult’ it feels (in order to reinforce their own comfort with an obsessive interest in what’s often regarded as a ‘children’s show’) and as a result are dismissive of anything that’s not obviously telling us how ‘serious’ it is all the time – say through lots of violence, a lack of humour, etc. To be fair, it’s not exactly limited to Who fans – theatre and cinema tend to praise the straight and the serious (the ‘worthy’) as better than the light and frivolous, as if that’s somehow a poorer relation, as if making someone smile has less artistic value than making them cry. See how the Oscars never go to impeccably made comedies or comic performances (I mean, Sean Penn’s wail-fest in Mystic River better than Bill Murray’s Lost in Translation subtlety, or Johnny Depp;s original tour-de-force performancein Pirates of the Caribbean? Get real). I always like to judge a story not by how worthy it is, but by how well it is made – what its intentions are and how well it succeeds in achieving those intentions.
Which is why I was annoyed by the furore when Carnival was announced as the second Pertwee DVD, over such obvious fan favourites as Sea Devils, or Green Death, or Inferno. As if it was bad. Because it just isn’t. It’s about as beautifully realised a piece of television as the Pertwee era ever managed. Those others have a sombre tone, but they’re nowhere near as impeccable. It’s tragic that people can’t appreciate a story this well written simply because it’s got a day-glo set and some jokes.
Look at this episode in particular. It’s about as good an opening as you can get. The initial hook is gorgeous, and entirely reliant on our status as a viewer – what on Earth connects these two strikingly different plot lines? The gaudiness of the alien world is a vital part of this, of course, as it offers a huge contrast to the naturalistic classic serial feel of the SS Bernice sequences, emphasising the differences and exacerbating our confusion.
But there’s more to it than that. The Inter Minor sequences in this episode are incredibly clever writing – for one specific reason I’ll get to in a moment. On the surface, they’re sparkling. The grey skinned inhabitants are beautifully and wittily written, a note perfect parody of bureaucracy, with their own distinctive speech patterns and behaviour. The Lurmans are equally swiftly drawn, recognisable types we understand. After four not especially exciting stories, this is Robert Holmes really becoming the writer we know – an avoidance of the bland clichés of science fiction, rewriting it all into something quirkier, more distinctive.
But the reason those scenes are so clever is not the deft characterisation and humour – it’s the fairly fundamental problem they avoid. In order to preserve the suspense it is vital that we don’t know what the Scope is, or what it does. Explain that and it becomes fairly obvious where the Doctor and Jo actually are. And the Inter Minor plot can’t really go anywhere until we know that. So the script has a difficult balancing act to pull off – it has to have the Inter Minor sequences (other wise there’s no mystery) but it also can’t really do anything with them (otherwise there’s no mystery). So, once again, we have an exercise in procrastination – but here we have a model example of how to do it, because you genuinely don’t notice. The time is filled with beautiful character work, world building, neat little touches of humour. Every scene has a clear purpose and drive to it. It always seems to be progresses. It’s gorgeous slight of hand.
Equally, the Doctor and Jo’s scenes are exactly how these stories need to work. Constantly moving, always with a purpose. The Doctor has his own sub hook for the story (his determination they’re not on Earth) and that drives his section of the script (which again is, by and large, about avoiding getting anywhere in the overall scheme, just a minor mystery to unravel). Notice how every scene is about something, going somewhere. All engaging, all involving. Nothing is there just to fill time.
About as dazzling an opening episode as you’re going to get. And whilst I may be biased, I’m also right.
Dorney
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#713 21 May 2008, 11:34 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
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#714 21 May 2008, 4:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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To be honest, there's not much to say about him in it, really, and most of what there is you've already covered (his appearance is a little depressing). You get the occassional blast of 1st Doctor there ('stop dilly dallying - and cross it'), and the respect accorded him by the others is a decent touch. It's bittersweet.
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#715 23 May 2008, 8:25 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
A lovely line, and a far better swansong than "Stay warm!"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#716 23 May 2008, 8:40 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacar92
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
Jon Preddle's "Timelink" posits that the 1st Doctor garden scenes (here, and in The Five Doctors) occur during the "missing four days" at the end of The War Machines (before he goes off with Ben and Polly. This fits quite well with the Doctor needing to recover from WOTAN's hypnotism attempt and perhaps spending time in the country at his friend Sir Charles Summer's residence. Dodo was also meant to be staying there, but had probably gone off to stay with relatives by then (or something)...
Of course, the garden could also be the one which John Lucarotti had the Doctor "semi-retired" to during his prologue/epilogue to "The Massacre" (Target novelisation).
In any case, due to low temporal energy, the garden scenes and the timescooping (of both One and Two, come to think of it) have to be near the end of their incarnations. The Doctor was severely aged by the Time Destructor in The Daleks' Master Plan, and also suffered a great drain of life energy in The Savages, so after those two stories seems likely. During Tenth Planet 3 or 4 (just before his recovery in 4) would fit except for the shots of him in a garden on the Time Lords' screen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#717 8 Jun 2008, 4:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 2:
One thing you may or may not have noticed as a major predilection of mine in these reviews is the concept of padding. This strange notion Doctor Who fans have that unless a story is all plot, plot, plot, the material is ‘padding’.
You see, for me, there’s no such thing, well, not as such. You only have good writing, or bad writing. Every story has sequences that are used to fill in time, it isn’t all story. And that’s a good thing. Cos if it was just story, everything would seem shallow and bland. The meat of a script happens in the gaps between the plot bits. The bits where people are given personalities, lives, proper identities. Where the world is built. You write those bits badly, or not at all, that’s when you get what’s commonly regarded as ‘padding’. Write them well, and nobody notices. I promise you could name me any classic story you like, that you think doesn’t have an ounce of fat and I could find you something that really, really doesn’t need to be there.
Of course, sometimes this can create a problem. If you need to cut it down, the detail is the first bit you’re going to go for, because by definition it’s unnecessary. But it’s a temptation that has to be resisted, because it’s what gives the story life. As I write this, I’ve just finished watching the Silence in the Library two parter, and it has a specific element that’s a case in point – the fact that two characters share the name Dave is completely irrelevant to the plot. But without it, you have a slightly less interesting, real world. All of a sudden these characters are so much more human.
And this is important in regards to Carnival of Monsters because it gives you some important context. You see, if you are going to use the word ‘padding’, then Carnival is one of the most padded stories of all time.
Look at this episode. Nothing that even vaguely resembles plot happens. We get the expository sequences explaining the plot of the first episode, identifying what the Scope actually is… but then what? The Doctor and Jo spend the episode going for a bit of a wander trying to escape from wherever they are. On Inter Minor, lots of conversations go nowhere, and the characters distract themselves with little subplots that don’t really progress. The simple fact of the matter is that there really isn’t enough plot to sustain four episodes. The Doctor can’t escape for a while yet, the Inter Minorans are just filling in time til he can. If padding was inherently bad, this episode would be awful.
But it just isn’t, and that’s because the time is used well. It’s used for witty exploration of character for example. Everyone in this script feels so distinct, so full. OK, some of that is helped by the fact that they’re all pitched as broad stock figures to a degree, but they’re written with such charm this hardly matters. The touches of humour and quirkiness really aid this as well – one of the truisms of a script is that comedy helps. Give someone a couple of jokes, suddenly they comes across better. Because everyone likes someone who tells a few jokes, don’t they? Again, they stop being ‘characters’, they become ‘people’. There’s never a sense that anything as pointless as filling in time is going on. The time is being used. No matter how consequence-less a sequence is (the Eradicator being used on the Scope for example), they always feel like they’re scenes with direction and purpose.
And even then the script has the balls to comment on its own nature. Beautifully, there’s an utterly irrelevant action sequence that turns up out of nowhere, simply on Vorg’s whim. The script is directly having one for the sake of it, because that’s what the show does, and acknowledging that. The Drashigs are there for a bit of entertainment value, monsters for the kiddies, and that’s how they’re described. The Doctor and Jo are basically trapped inside a television show, getting menaced by things at the right points because they need to be.
So ultimately, this episode is about nothing whatsoever – and yet it’s also tremendous fun.
Dorney
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#718 20 Jun 2008, 8:57 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 3:
Watching this episode, it strikes me that this is the first - of about two, maybe three stories - that's got an organic structure.
Now, you might not understand what I mean by that so I'll try to explain. Before this story starts there is no plot. No story is going to happen, nobody is up to anything.
That a plot arrives is a natural and, yes, organic process simply from setting a few disparate groups of people in opposition and seeing what happens. The plot develops from the characters operating in a normal and straightforward way, and that causing other people to do something new, and it all following on in a chain. Kalik, for example, must be the only Doctor Who villain who only comes up with his evil scheme half way through the story. Up until that point he's a jerk, but he's not actually a villain. This is a story driven by developing the personalities, by the way the characters interact. A status quo that the Doctor upsets with his arrival.
The only other Who story I can think of that does something similar is Androzani - the Doctor and Peri operating as a catalyst for the pre-existing tensions within a political situation to explode. I have a sneaking feeling Ribos Operation has a similar aspect, but it's been a while since I've seen that. Maybe Mysterious Planet.
It is of course no coincidence that they're all by Robert Holmes. Regular readers (both of them) can possibly remember my frustration at how long it takes for the proper Robert Holmes to arrive. For all their conceptual invention, the Auton stories are dull, the less said about Space Pirates the better, although I do think the Krotons is undervalued. Well, he's here. Holmes is all about character. Detailed, quirky, utterly real, and identifiable characters. So naturally, plot's not going to be a major concern of his. That's not to say they have bad plots, obviously, they're impeccable. But that the plot is defined by the characters rather than the other way round.
There's a real sense in this episode of all the threads coming together. All the seperate elements of the story begin to impact on the others - and I'm not just meaning in the obvious ways with the Drashigs attacking the boat and Kalik's developing evil plan. But it's tying up little details - the Doctor needing rope from the boat, the dynamite from there damaging the scope and so on. The construction is beautiful. Pretty darn brilliant stuff.
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#719 23 Jun 2008, 7:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The problem comes with the ending; I think you'll revise your opinion when you watch episode 4 again. Holmes sets up the characters and tensions etc beautifully, no doubts there, but because it takes so long for Kalik to come up with a plan the plan itself is a bit rubbish and is dealt with hurriedly. The same thing goes for The Time Warrior, which has wonderful characters but the plot goes back to Terror of the Autons territory with lots of set pieces designed to fill out 100 minutes, complete with a sudden ending that doesn't justify the length of the story.
Come to think of it, Holmes really wasn't much of a plotter. Everybody loves Pyramids and Talons but everybody also complains about the rushed endings. And The Deadly Assassin has a big plot point that comes out of nowhere halfway through part 4. The Caves of Androzani is, for me, the only totally accomplished work of his and part of that is due to the direction - witness The Ribos Operation which in structure is nearly identical to The Caves of Androzani (lots of existing tensions and figures with whom the Doctor and companion barely interact until part 2 and even then they have little to do with the moving story) but seems a bit boring because the direction is rubbish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#720 28 Jun 2008, 5:43 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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That's a good point about "Ribos", and though it's a much-vaunted story (the superb design, great acting and... er, Prentis Hancock? ) I always felt the Seeker was naff (cliched old witch) and Unstoffe terribly mundane... perhaps it's just his haircut
Anyway, though I prefer "Ribos" to "Androzani" (the latter just being the usual 1980s Saward sadomasochism, IMO, despite Petey being greater than ever), surely the usual one that gets unfavourably compared to Androzani is "Power of Kroll" - for having much the same plot if nothing else... how do you think they compare, Bus? Must admit I haven't seen Kroll for years, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Abineri, Madoc and McCarthy, even though I know their talents are wasted in this.
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21 May 2008, 11:29 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 1:
I’m going to start this one by declaring an interest. Carnival of Monsters is the first Doctor Who story I ever saw. Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats, 1981, BBC2. The cliffhanger to episode three leaps out in my memory very clearly (and unlike the third cliffhanger of the Three Doctors, I remember it correctly!).
So obviously I have a certain nostalgic fondness for this story. But putting that aside, trying to be objective… well, it’s still pretty much perfect, isn’t it?
Long time readers of my ramblings may recall that I’ve often suggested that Who fans tend to select what they think of as classics based on how ‘adult’ it feels (in order to reinforce their own comfort with an obsessive interest in what’s often regarded as a ‘children’s show’) and as a result are dismissive of anything that’s not obviously telling us how ‘serious’ it is all the time – say through lots of violence, a lack of humour, etc. To be fair, it’s not exactly limited to Who fans – theatre and cinema tend to praise the straight and the serious (the ‘worthy’) as better than the light and frivolous, as if that’s somehow a poorer relation, as if making someone smile has less artistic value than making them cry. See how the Oscars never go to impeccably made comedies or comic performances (I mean, Sean Penn’s wail-fest in Mystic River better than Bill Murray’s Lost in Translation subtlety, or Johnny Depp;s original tour-de-force performancein Pirates of the Caribbean? Get real). I always like to judge a story not by how worthy it is, but by how well it is made – what its intentions are and how well it succeeds in achieving those intentions.
Which is why I was annoyed by the furore when Carnival was announced as the second Pertwee DVD, over such obvious fan favourites as Sea Devils, or Green Death, or Inferno. As if it was bad. Because it just isn’t. It’s about as beautifully realised a piece of television as the Pertwee era ever managed. Those others have a sombre tone, but they’re nowhere near as impeccable. It’s tragic that people can’t appreciate a story this well written simply because it’s got a day-glo set and some jokes.
Look at this episode in particular. It’s about as good an opening as you can get. The initial hook is gorgeous, and entirely reliant on our status as a viewer – what on Earth connects these two strikingly different plot lines? The gaudiness of the alien world is a vital part of this, of course, as it offers a huge contrast to the naturalistic classic serial feel of the SS Bernice sequences, emphasising the differences and exacerbating our confusion.
But there’s more to it than that. The Inter Minor sequences in this episode are incredibly clever writing – for one specific reason I’ll get to in a moment. On the surface, they’re sparkling. The grey skinned inhabitants are beautifully and wittily written, a note perfect parody of bureaucracy, with their own distinctive speech patterns and behaviour. The Lurmans are equally swiftly drawn, recognisable types we understand. After four not especially exciting stories, this is Robert Holmes really becoming the writer we know – an avoidance of the bland clichés of science fiction, rewriting it all into something quirkier, more distinctive.
But the reason those scenes are so clever is not the deft characterisation and humour – it’s the fairly fundamental problem they avoid. In order to preserve the suspense it is vital that we don’t know what the Scope is, or what it does. Explain that and it becomes fairly obvious where the Doctor and Jo actually are. And the Inter Minor plot can’t really go anywhere until we know that. So the script has a difficult balancing act to pull off – it has to have the Inter Minor sequences (other wise there’s no mystery) but it also can’t really do anything with them (otherwise there’s no mystery). So, once again, we have an exercise in procrastination – but here we have a model example of how to do it, because you genuinely don’t notice. The time is filled with beautiful character work, world building, neat little touches of humour. Every scene has a clear purpose and drive to it. It always seems to be progresses. It’s gorgeous slight of hand.
Equally, the Doctor and Jo’s scenes are exactly how these stories need to work. Constantly moving, always with a purpose. The Doctor has his own sub hook for the story (his determination they’re not on Earth) and that drives his section of the script (which again is, by and large, about avoiding getting anywhere in the overall scheme, just a minor mystery to unravel). Notice how every scene is about something, going somewhere. All engaging, all involving. Nothing is there just to fill time.
About as dazzling an opening episode as you’re going to get. And whilst I may be biased, I’m also right.
Dorney
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#713 21 May 2008, 11:34 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by The Secretive Bus; 21 May 2008 at 11:38 am.
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#714 21 May 2008, 4:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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To be honest, there's not much to say about him in it, really, and most of what there is you've already covered (his appearance is a little depressing). You get the occassional blast of 1st Doctor there ('stop dilly dallying - and cross it'), and the respect accorded him by the others is a decent touch. It's bittersweet.
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#715 23 May 2008, 8:25 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
A lovely line, and a far better swansong than "Stay warm!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#716 23 May 2008, 8:40 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacar92
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
Jon Preddle's "Timelink" posits that the 1st Doctor garden scenes (here, and in The Five Doctors) occur during the "missing four days" at the end of The War Machines (before he goes off with Ben and Polly. This fits quite well with the Doctor needing to recover from WOTAN's hypnotism attempt and perhaps spending time in the country at his friend Sir Charles Summer's residence. Dodo was also meant to be staying there, but had probably gone off to stay with relatives by then (or something)...
Of course, the garden could also be the one which John Lucarotti had the Doctor "semi-retired" to during his prologue/epilogue to "The Massacre" (Target novelisation).
In any case, due to low temporal energy, the garden scenes and the timescooping (of both One and Two, come to think of it) have to be near the end of their incarnations. The Doctor was severely aged by the Time Destructor in The Daleks' Master Plan, and also suffered a great drain of life energy in The Savages, so after those two stories seems likely. During Tenth Planet 3 or 4 (just before his recovery in 4) would fit except for the shots of him in a garden on the Time Lords' screen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#717 8 Jun 2008, 4:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 2:
One thing you may or may not have noticed as a major predilection of mine in these reviews is the concept of padding. This strange notion Doctor Who fans have that unless a story is all plot, plot, plot, the material is ‘padding’.
You see, for me, there’s no such thing, well, not as such. You only have good writing, or bad writing. Every story has sequences that are used to fill in time, it isn’t all story. And that’s a good thing. Cos if it was just story, everything would seem shallow and bland. The meat of a script happens in the gaps between the plot bits. The bits where people are given personalities, lives, proper identities. Where the world is built. You write those bits badly, or not at all, that’s when you get what’s commonly regarded as ‘padding’. Write them well, and nobody notices. I promise you could name me any classic story you like, that you think doesn’t have an ounce of fat and I could find you something that really, really doesn’t need to be there.
Of course, sometimes this can create a problem. If you need to cut it down, the detail is the first bit you’re going to go for, because by definition it’s unnecessary. But it’s a temptation that has to be resisted, because it’s what gives the story life. As I write this, I’ve just finished watching the Silence in the Library two parter, and it has a specific element that’s a case in point – the fact that two characters share the name Dave is completely irrelevant to the plot. But without it, you have a slightly less interesting, real world. All of a sudden these characters are so much more human.
And this is important in regards to Carnival of Monsters because it gives you some important context. You see, if you are going to use the word ‘padding’, then Carnival is one of the most padded stories of all time.
Look at this episode. Nothing that even vaguely resembles plot happens. We get the expository sequences explaining the plot of the first episode, identifying what the Scope actually is… but then what? The Doctor and Jo spend the episode going for a bit of a wander trying to escape from wherever they are. On Inter Minor, lots of conversations go nowhere, and the characters distract themselves with little subplots that don’t really progress. The simple fact of the matter is that there really isn’t enough plot to sustain four episodes. The Doctor can’t escape for a while yet, the Inter Minorans are just filling in time til he can. If padding was inherently bad, this episode would be awful.
But it just isn’t, and that’s because the time is used well. It’s used for witty exploration of character for example. Everyone in this script feels so distinct, so full. OK, some of that is helped by the fact that they’re all pitched as broad stock figures to a degree, but they’re written with such charm this hardly matters. The touches of humour and quirkiness really aid this as well – one of the truisms of a script is that comedy helps. Give someone a couple of jokes, suddenly they comes across better. Because everyone likes someone who tells a few jokes, don’t they? Again, they stop being ‘characters’, they become ‘people’. There’s never a sense that anything as pointless as filling in time is going on. The time is being used. No matter how consequence-less a sequence is (the Eradicator being used on the Scope for example), they always feel like they’re scenes with direction and purpose.
And even then the script has the balls to comment on its own nature. Beautifully, there’s an utterly irrelevant action sequence that turns up out of nowhere, simply on Vorg’s whim. The script is directly having one for the sake of it, because that’s what the show does, and acknowledging that. The Drashigs are there for a bit of entertainment value, monsters for the kiddies, and that’s how they’re described. The Doctor and Jo are basically trapped inside a television show, getting menaced by things at the right points because they need to be.
So ultimately, this episode is about nothing whatsoever – and yet it’s also tremendous fun.
Dorney
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#718 20 Jun 2008, 8:57 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 3:
Watching this episode, it strikes me that this is the first - of about two, maybe three stories - that's got an organic structure.
Now, you might not understand what I mean by that so I'll try to explain. Before this story starts there is no plot. No story is going to happen, nobody is up to anything.
That a plot arrives is a natural and, yes, organic process simply from setting a few disparate groups of people in opposition and seeing what happens. The plot develops from the characters operating in a normal and straightforward way, and that causing other people to do something new, and it all following on in a chain. Kalik, for example, must be the only Doctor Who villain who only comes up with his evil scheme half way through the story. Up until that point he's a jerk, but he's not actually a villain. This is a story driven by developing the personalities, by the way the characters interact. A status quo that the Doctor upsets with his arrival.
The only other Who story I can think of that does something similar is Androzani - the Doctor and Peri operating as a catalyst for the pre-existing tensions within a political situation to explode. I have a sneaking feeling Ribos Operation has a similar aspect, but it's been a while since I've seen that. Maybe Mysterious Planet.
It is of course no coincidence that they're all by Robert Holmes. Regular readers (both of them) can possibly remember my frustration at how long it takes for the proper Robert Holmes to arrive. For all their conceptual invention, the Auton stories are dull, the less said about Space Pirates the better, although I do think the Krotons is undervalued. Well, he's here. Holmes is all about character. Detailed, quirky, utterly real, and identifiable characters. So naturally, plot's not going to be a major concern of his. That's not to say they have bad plots, obviously, they're impeccable. But that the plot is defined by the characters rather than the other way round.
There's a real sense in this episode of all the threads coming together. All the seperate elements of the story begin to impact on the others - and I'm not just meaning in the obvious ways with the Drashigs attacking the boat and Kalik's developing evil plan. But it's tying up little details - the Doctor needing rope from the boat, the dynamite from there damaging the scope and so on. The construction is beautiful. Pretty darn brilliant stuff.
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#719 23 Jun 2008, 7:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The problem comes with the ending; I think you'll revise your opinion when you watch episode 4 again. Holmes sets up the characters and tensions etc beautifully, no doubts there, but because it takes so long for Kalik to come up with a plan the plan itself is a bit rubbish and is dealt with hurriedly. The same thing goes for The Time Warrior, which has wonderful characters but the plot goes back to Terror of the Autons territory with lots of set pieces designed to fill out 100 minutes, complete with a sudden ending that doesn't justify the length of the story.
Come to think of it, Holmes really wasn't much of a plotter. Everybody loves Pyramids and Talons but everybody also complains about the rushed endings. And The Deadly Assassin has a big plot point that comes out of nowhere halfway through part 4. The Caves of Androzani is, for me, the only totally accomplished work of his and part of that is due to the direction - witness The Ribos Operation which in structure is nearly identical to The Caves of Androzani (lots of existing tensions and figures with whom the Doctor and companion barely interact until part 2 and even then they have little to do with the moving story) but seems a bit boring because the direction is rubbish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#720 28 Jun 2008, 5:43 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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That's a good point about "Ribos", and though it's a much-vaunted story (the superb design, great acting and... er, Prentis Hancock? ) I always felt the Seeker was naff (cliched old witch) and Unstoffe terribly mundane... perhaps it's just his haircut
Anyway, though I prefer "Ribos" to "Androzani" (the latter just being the usual 1980s Saward sadomasochism, IMO, despite Petey being greater than ever), surely the usual one that gets unfavourably compared to Androzani is "Power of Kroll" - for having much the same plot if nothing else... how do you think they compare, Bus? Must admit I haven't seen Kroll for years, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Abineri, Madoc and McCarthy, even though I know their talents are wasted in this.
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21 May 2008, 11:29 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 1:
I’m going to start this one by declaring an interest. Carnival of Monsters is the first Doctor Who story I ever saw. Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats, 1981, BBC2. The cliffhanger to episode three leaps out in my memory very clearly (and unlike the third cliffhanger of the Three Doctors, I remember it correctly!).
So obviously I have a certain nostalgic fondness for this story. But putting that aside, trying to be objective… well, it’s still pretty much perfect, isn’t it?
Long time readers of my ramblings may recall that I’ve often suggested that Who fans tend to select what they think of as classics based on how ‘adult’ it feels (in order to reinforce their own comfort with an obsessive interest in what’s often regarded as a ‘children’s show’) and as a result are dismissive of anything that’s not obviously telling us how ‘serious’ it is all the time – say through lots of violence, a lack of humour, etc. To be fair, it’s not exactly limited to Who fans – theatre and cinema tend to praise the straight and the serious (the ‘worthy’) as better than the light and frivolous, as if that’s somehow a poorer relation, as if making someone smile has less artistic value than making them cry. See how the Oscars never go to impeccably made comedies or comic performances (I mean, Sean Penn’s wail-fest in Mystic River better than Bill Murray’s Lost in Translation subtlety, or Johnny Depp;s original tour-de-force performancein Pirates of the Caribbean? Get real). I always like to judge a story not by how worthy it is, but by how well it is made – what its intentions are and how well it succeeds in achieving those intentions.
Which is why I was annoyed by the furore when Carnival was announced as the second Pertwee DVD, over such obvious fan favourites as Sea Devils, or Green Death, or Inferno. As if it was bad. Because it just isn’t. It’s about as beautifully realised a piece of television as the Pertwee era ever managed. Those others have a sombre tone, but they’re nowhere near as impeccable. It’s tragic that people can’t appreciate a story this well written simply because it’s got a day-glo set and some jokes.
Look at this episode in particular. It’s about as good an opening as you can get. The initial hook is gorgeous, and entirely reliant on our status as a viewer – what on Earth connects these two strikingly different plot lines? The gaudiness of the alien world is a vital part of this, of course, as it offers a huge contrast to the naturalistic classic serial feel of the SS Bernice sequences, emphasising the differences and exacerbating our confusion.
But there’s more to it than that. The Inter Minor sequences in this episode are incredibly clever writing – for one specific reason I’ll get to in a moment. On the surface, they’re sparkling. The grey skinned inhabitants are beautifully and wittily written, a note perfect parody of bureaucracy, with their own distinctive speech patterns and behaviour. The Lurmans are equally swiftly drawn, recognisable types we understand. After four not especially exciting stories, this is Robert Holmes really becoming the writer we know – an avoidance of the bland clichés of science fiction, rewriting it all into something quirkier, more distinctive.
But the reason those scenes are so clever is not the deft characterisation and humour – it’s the fairly fundamental problem they avoid. In order to preserve the suspense it is vital that we don’t know what the Scope is, or what it does. Explain that and it becomes fairly obvious where the Doctor and Jo actually are. And the Inter Minor plot can’t really go anywhere until we know that. So the script has a difficult balancing act to pull off – it has to have the Inter Minor sequences (other wise there’s no mystery) but it also can’t really do anything with them (otherwise there’s no mystery). So, once again, we have an exercise in procrastination – but here we have a model example of how to do it, because you genuinely don’t notice. The time is filled with beautiful character work, world building, neat little touches of humour. Every scene has a clear purpose and drive to it. It always seems to be progresses. It’s gorgeous slight of hand.
Equally, the Doctor and Jo’s scenes are exactly how these stories need to work. Constantly moving, always with a purpose. The Doctor has his own sub hook for the story (his determination they’re not on Earth) and that drives his section of the script (which again is, by and large, about avoiding getting anywhere in the overall scheme, just a minor mystery to unravel). Notice how every scene is about something, going somewhere. All engaging, all involving. Nothing is there just to fill time.
About as dazzling an opening episode as you’re going to get. And whilst I may be biased, I’m also right.
Dorney
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#713 21 May 2008, 11:34 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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Last edited by The Secretive Bus; 21 May 2008 at 11:38 am.
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#714 21 May 2008, 4:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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To be honest, there's not much to say about him in it, really, and most of what there is you've already covered (his appearance is a little depressing). You get the occassional blast of 1st Doctor there ('stop dilly dallying - and cross it'), and the respect accorded him by the others is a decent touch. It's bittersweet.
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#715 23 May 2008, 8:25 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
A lovely line, and a far better swansong than "Stay warm!"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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#716 23 May 2008, 8:40 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacar92
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
Jon Preddle's "Timelink" posits that the 1st Doctor garden scenes (here, and in The Five Doctors) occur during the "missing four days" at the end of The War Machines (before he goes off with Ben and Polly. This fits quite well with the Doctor needing to recover from WOTAN's hypnotism attempt and perhaps spending time in the country at his friend Sir Charles Summer's residence. Dodo was also meant to be staying there, but had probably gone off to stay with relatives by then (or something)...
Of course, the garden could also be the one which John Lucarotti had the Doctor "semi-retired" to during his prologue/epilogue to "The Massacre" (Target novelisation).
In any case, due to low temporal energy, the garden scenes and the timescooping (of both One and Two, come to think of it) have to be near the end of their incarnations. The Doctor was severely aged by the Time Destructor in The Daleks' Master Plan, and also suffered a great drain of life energy in The Savages, so after those two stories seems likely. During Tenth Planet 3 or 4 (just before his recovery in 4) would fit except for the shots of him in a garden on the Time Lords' screen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#717 8 Jun 2008, 4:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 2:
One thing you may or may not have noticed as a major predilection of mine in these reviews is the concept of padding. This strange notion Doctor Who fans have that unless a story is all plot, plot, plot, the material is ‘padding’.
You see, for me, there’s no such thing, well, not as such. You only have good writing, or bad writing. Every story has sequences that are used to fill in time, it isn’t all story. And that’s a good thing. Cos if it was just story, everything would seem shallow and bland. The meat of a script happens in the gaps between the plot bits. The bits where people are given personalities, lives, proper identities. Where the world is built. You write those bits badly, or not at all, that’s when you get what’s commonly regarded as ‘padding’. Write them well, and nobody notices. I promise you could name me any classic story you like, that you think doesn’t have an ounce of fat and I could find you something that really, really doesn’t need to be there.
Of course, sometimes this can create a problem. If you need to cut it down, the detail is the first bit you’re going to go for, because by definition it’s unnecessary. But it’s a temptation that has to be resisted, because it’s what gives the story life. As I write this, I’ve just finished watching the Silence in the Library two parter, and it has a specific element that’s a case in point – the fact that two characters share the name Dave is completely irrelevant to the plot. But without it, you have a slightly less interesting, real world. All of a sudden these characters are so much more human.
And this is important in regards to Carnival of Monsters because it gives you some important context. You see, if you are going to use the word ‘padding’, then Carnival is one of the most padded stories of all time.
Look at this episode. Nothing that even vaguely resembles plot happens. We get the expository sequences explaining the plot of the first episode, identifying what the Scope actually is… but then what? The Doctor and Jo spend the episode going for a bit of a wander trying to escape from wherever they are. On Inter Minor, lots of conversations go nowhere, and the characters distract themselves with little subplots that don’t really progress. The simple fact of the matter is that there really isn’t enough plot to sustain four episodes. The Doctor can’t escape for a while yet, the Inter Minorans are just filling in time til he can. If padding was inherently bad, this episode would be awful.
But it just isn’t, and that’s because the time is used well. It’s used for witty exploration of character for example. Everyone in this script feels so distinct, so full. OK, some of that is helped by the fact that they’re all pitched as broad stock figures to a degree, but they’re written with such charm this hardly matters. The touches of humour and quirkiness really aid this as well – one of the truisms of a script is that comedy helps. Give someone a couple of jokes, suddenly they comes across better. Because everyone likes someone who tells a few jokes, don’t they? Again, they stop being ‘characters’, they become ‘people’. There’s never a sense that anything as pointless as filling in time is going on. The time is being used. No matter how consequence-less a sequence is (the Eradicator being used on the Scope for example), they always feel like they’re scenes with direction and purpose.
And even then the script has the balls to comment on its own nature. Beautifully, there’s an utterly irrelevant action sequence that turns up out of nowhere, simply on Vorg’s whim. The script is directly having one for the sake of it, because that’s what the show does, and acknowledging that. The Drashigs are there for a bit of entertainment value, monsters for the kiddies, and that’s how they’re described. The Doctor and Jo are basically trapped inside a television show, getting menaced by things at the right points because they need to be.
So ultimately, this episode is about nothing whatsoever – and yet it’s also tremendous fun.
Dorney
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#718 20 Jun 2008, 8:57 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 3:
Watching this episode, it strikes me that this is the first - of about two, maybe three stories - that's got an organic structure.
Now, you might not understand what I mean by that so I'll try to explain. Before this story starts there is no plot. No story is going to happen, nobody is up to anything.
That a plot arrives is a natural and, yes, organic process simply from setting a few disparate groups of people in opposition and seeing what happens. The plot develops from the characters operating in a normal and straightforward way, and that causing other people to do something new, and it all following on in a chain. Kalik, for example, must be the only Doctor Who villain who only comes up with his evil scheme half way through the story. Up until that point he's a jerk, but he's not actually a villain. This is a story driven by developing the personalities, by the way the characters interact. A status quo that the Doctor upsets with his arrival.
The only other Who story I can think of that does something similar is Androzani - the Doctor and Peri operating as a catalyst for the pre-existing tensions within a political situation to explode. I have a sneaking feeling Ribos Operation has a similar aspect, but it's been a while since I've seen that. Maybe Mysterious Planet.
It is of course no coincidence that they're all by Robert Holmes. Regular readers (both of them) can possibly remember my frustration at how long it takes for the proper Robert Holmes to arrive. For all their conceptual invention, the Auton stories are dull, the less said about Space Pirates the better, although I do think the Krotons is undervalued. Well, he's here. Holmes is all about character. Detailed, quirky, utterly real, and identifiable characters. So naturally, plot's not going to be a major concern of his. That's not to say they have bad plots, obviously, they're impeccable. But that the plot is defined by the characters rather than the other way round.
There's a real sense in this episode of all the threads coming together. All the seperate elements of the story begin to impact on the others - and I'm not just meaning in the obvious ways with the Drashigs attacking the boat and Kalik's developing evil plan. But it's tying up little details - the Doctor needing rope from the boat, the dynamite from there damaging the scope and so on. The construction is beautiful. Pretty darn brilliant stuff.
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#719 23 Jun 2008, 7:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The problem comes with the ending; I think you'll revise your opinion when you watch episode 4 again. Holmes sets up the characters and tensions etc beautifully, no doubts there, but because it takes so long for Kalik to come up with a plan the plan itself is a bit rubbish and is dealt with hurriedly. The same thing goes for The Time Warrior, which has wonderful characters but the plot goes back to Terror of the Autons territory with lots of set pieces designed to fill out 100 minutes, complete with a sudden ending that doesn't justify the length of the story.
Come to think of it, Holmes really wasn't much of a plotter. Everybody loves Pyramids and Talons but everybody also complains about the rushed endings. And The Deadly Assassin has a big plot point that comes out of nowhere halfway through part 4. The Caves of Androzani is, for me, the only totally accomplished work of his and part of that is due to the direction - witness The Ribos Operation which in structure is nearly identical to The Caves of Androzani (lots of existing tensions and figures with whom the Doctor and companion barely interact until part 2 and even then they have little to do with the moving story) but seems a bit boring because the direction is rubbish.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#720 28 Jun 2008, 5:43 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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That's a good point about "Ribos", and though it's a much-vaunted story (the superb design, great acting and... er, Prentis Hancock? ) I always felt the Seeker was naff (cliched old witch) and Unstoffe terribly mundane... perhaps it's just his haircut
Anyway, though I prefer "Ribos" to "Androzani" (the latter just being the usual 1980s Saward sadomasochism, IMO, despite Petey being greater than ever), surely the usual one that gets unfavourably compared to Androzani is "Power of Kroll" - for having much the same plot if nothing else... how do you think they compare, Bus? Must admit I haven't seen Kroll for years, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Abineri, Madoc and McCarthy, even though I know their talents are wasted in this.
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29 Jun 2008, 12:32 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The Power of Kroll gets compared to Androzani simply because there's a bit of gun-running in it. Otherwise in structure and themes it's a completely different story! Going by the "pre-existing tensions snapped by presence of Doctor" bit, the chaps at the refinery go off to shoot the gun runner off their own bat. The Doctor spends the rest of the time doing traditionally Doctorish things and saving the day multiple times. The Doctor of Androzani is merely trying to stay alive and doesn't directly contribute to anybody's downfall, nor does he achieve anything other than to save Peri and get back to the TARDIS in time to turn into Colin Baker. So there's no similarity between the stories at all.
Fair enough in Ribos the Doctor ends up killing the Graff but the other characters kill each other off. The Doctor spends the first two episodes not getting involved in anything and the second two running away from the baddies. It's also the Doctor that upsets things by his very presence, making everybody paranoid or suspicious and thereby ruining Garron's money making scam.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#722 3 Jul 2008, 2:07 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 4:
This most beautiful and elegant of stories comes to a beautiful and elegant finish.
It's odd to see how much plot is crammed into this episode, given the fairly light content of the previous three. Well, I say odd, but it's not really, is it? They've slightly run out of time. And they need to get through it. Yet, it never feels rushed, or crowded.
And indeed, it's somewhat unfair to suggest that there hasn't been much in the previous three. This is a fairly blatant slow burner of a story, with several disparate thread set up and left to trail before eventually being tied together. All of the set ups start to pay off, the repetition on the ship hits home, and so on. It's all dealt with in elegant simplicity.
For example, the resolution of the Kalik storyline. It's interesting to note that the DWM Pertwee special from years back pointed out that the Doctor doesn't get involved in this ('the main thrust of the storyline' it said) until episode three. Now that's wrong on several levels - the fact it's episode four pretty much being the least of them.
The fact is the Doctor doesn't even realise there's an evil villain in the story at all. As far as he's aware, the whole story is about him rescuing himself and Jo and saving the other inhabitants of the scope. He simply isn't aware that there's another plot. And that's why the swift resolution of said plot doesn't really matter.
Because it's a punchline. The Inter-Minorans are all cretins to a man, but in the grand comic tradition, one of them thinks he's a genius. The only difference is the script doesn't let us realise this until the last moment. One of my favourite jokes of this episode is the fact that Kalik spends a good two minutes explaining to Orum how they'll be perfectly safe from the Drashigs as they cause mayhem and destruction - then promptly gets killed pretty much instantly as their only victim. This is a low key story. Defeating a grand villain in a grand way in such a tale would be out of keeping and disappointing. Much fitter that he turns out to be a rubbish villain, who defeats himself, and has his entire scheme foiled by a supporting character.
The other problem with that DWM thing is that it's a sideshow, not the main thrust. The central thrust is the zoo/television metaphor that is the Scope. Kalik isn't the villain, not really, or at the very most a secondary one. Vorg is the villain. An unthinking, daft one, but the villain nonetheless. What he's doing is at least as bad as what Kalik fails to do... but the key difference is that crucially, when push comes to the shove, he decides to be brave, because he's a decent chap at heart.
And that's why this story is great - it's a genuinely lovely tale filled with wit and heart, where the villains are misguided and likeable rather than out and out bad (heck, even the subsiduary ones are more entertaining than evil). It's honest and true about humanity. Just because it's slight and small and not self important or 'worthy', doesn't mean it's not as good as more ostensibly serious scripts. Along with Inferno, the best story of the Pertwee era.
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#723 4 Jul 2008, 2:12 am
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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*Applause*
Thanks for that Dorney. Carnival is a great story IMO, and it just doesn't get anywhere near enough love. Largely, I think, because people keep expecting it to be something it's not. But it does what intends to do, and does it brilliantly.
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Fear Me, for I am Quaadzelaan Xipuloxx! All hail Xipuloxx the Unsound!
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Of course I'm entirely serious. I teach History.
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#724 4 Jul 2008, 12:12 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
But it does what intends to do, and does it brilliantly.
You've just nailed precisely what I think a good script/story is. Ask yourself firstly what does this story want to do? Secondly, how well it achieves that.
Hefty drama isn't inherently better than comedy. It just keeps yelling at you that it's important.
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#725 4 Jul 2008, 12:48 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Hefty drama isn't inherently better than comedy. It just keeps yelling at you that it's important.
That's pretty much what I thought when I read The Daily Telegraph's new "Top Ten Who Stories" list:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main...o-episodes.xml
Androzani? Talons? Genesis?? Inferno??? Mainly the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys. One of the great things "Classic Who" does is mixing humour with the grimness.
"The Seeds of Doom", with astonishing direction by Douglas Camfield, has the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror. That easily beats "Talons".
"The Massacre" (interestingly, like "Blink", a "Doctor-lite" story) is perhaps the second-best Hartnell after the superlative and assured "The Aztecs", though I prefer the immaculate writing and performances of "The Crusade" or the devil-may-care abandon of the epic "Daleks' Master Plan" (both Camfield again - I'm spotting a pattern here).
Amusing that they mention "Inferno" as being a great example of Camfield's work - apart from the pre-filmed exteriors and one studio session, the rest was directed by Barry Letts after Camfield fell ill. Ever the hard taskmaster, Camfield (whose wife was in "Inferno") had to visit a cast member on "Seeds" who had also been hospitalised. Although his wife was all sympathy, Camfield himself just asked the actor when he would return to work!!
They need more humour in the list, and Troughton excels at the combination of laughs and thrills. "Power of the Daleks" is the ultimate Dalek story, but also the ultimate regeneration story. And you have to go a long way to beat "The Invasion" (guess what - Camfield again).
However, I love Carnival because it was the first Target book I ever got (it was a birthday present from my Nan) - took me ages to pick it up, but when I had, I became a real fan as opposed to just someone who watched the show.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#726 4 Jul 2008, 4:31 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Carnival of Monsters 4:
This most beautiful and elegant of stories comes to a beautiful and elegant finish.
Ah, well then. Colour me "wrong".
I do like the story a great deal, don't get me wrong, but it's very plotless and I prefer my stories to have a narrative thrust. That's what the Kalik plotline seems to be there for and the sudden ending after so many scenes of him plotting and scheming doesn't strike me as any sort of punchline, more a "Oh my God I've five minutes to end the story" convenience. Since Holmes' last story was Terror of the Autons and the next one is The Time Warrior (both of which end suddenly out of nowhere) I don't buy that Holmes suddenly became a master craftsman of plotting for one story.
It's a good collection of set pieces and the performances are wonderful but the lack of a real plot lets it down. Still, it's miles better to what comes next.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
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#727 7 Jul 2008, 10:55 am
Richard2801
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
...Androzani? Talons? Genesis?? Inferno??? Mainly the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys. One of the great things "Classic Who" does is mixing humour with the grimness.
"The Seeds of Doom", with astonishing direction by Douglas Camfield, has the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror. That easily beats "Talons".
...However, I love Carnival because it was the first Target book I ever got (it was a birthday present from my Nan) - took me ages to pick it up, but when I had, I became a real fan as opposed to just someone who watched the show.
A splendid review of Carnival as ever, John, pulling out much of its greatness - it's an odd one for me, having loved it like AlMiles as a kid from the book (has there ever been a better bit of blurb than "The Doctor and Jo land on a cargo ship crossing the Indian Ocean in the year 1926... Or so they think"?), but feeling now that though it's very entertaining, there's something not quite right. Perhaps it's that the TV story always misses some of the little polishes from Terrance’s book for me (and Pertwee nicks most of Jo's best lines), while the book just doesn’t have enough sparkle on its own to be Terrance's best. So, in my head, there's a more satisfying fusion of both.
Pop fact: half-way through doing the special sound for this story, Brian Hodgson resigned to found his own studio, so Dick Mills took over from here until 1989 – which means that the Drashig cry, one of the most memorable sound effects for me, was down to both of them. It’s Brian’s original scream into the mike, with Dick’s treatment on it.
But back to AlMiles on the Torygraph (above). I agree very much with the thrust of your post, but it seems to me a natural consequence of devising a list of individual 'best stories' rather than a list of stories that represent what's best in the series. Two of my favourite seasons are 13 and 16, for example, but I wouldn't call either 'representative' on their own - one's too grim and violent to sum up the breadth of the series, the other too playful and funny (14's a better mix of both, but that's by-the-by). So unless you set out to make a list that deliberately ticks off stories for, say, horror, playfulness, wit, strangeness, big ideas, monsters, villains, action, dialogue, alien worlds, past, present and future - or whatever else you think good Doctor Who encompasses - it's almost inevitably going to have something missing.
The other problem with making a list of ingredients, of course, is that no fan's going to agree with any other fan on which stories have them. I was fascinated to see your attack on "the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys" being illustrated by The Talons of Weng-Chiang, and then calling The Seeds of Doom "the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror". For me, it's quite the opposite. There are some fabulous moments of humour in Seeds, but they're overwhelmed by the horror in what's probably the most violent, macho show in the series' history; Talons, on the other hand, never fails to crack me up, whether it's Greel's hysteria, Jago's bombast or Litefoot trying to eat like Leela. Even Caves is funnier for me than Seeds, with Morgus's blackly comic asides. So I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong; just that it shows the perils of saying 'this story is definitively such-and-such', and that you made me smile by picking as your perfect mix the very story I'd think of if asked to name a "grim and heavy" one "favoured by adolescent boys" that I'd still say was pretty good
(Alex, borrowing Richard)
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Richard
"I KNOW! LET'S BUILD ROCKET SHIPS!!!!!!!"
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#728 7 Jul 2008, 6:51 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard2801
But back to AlMiles on the Torygraph (above). I agree very much with the thrust of your post, but it seems to me a natural consequence of devising a list of individual 'best stories' rather than a list of stories that represent what's best in the series. Two of my favourite seasons are 13 and 16, for example, but I wouldn't call either 'representative' on their own - one's too grim and violent to sum up the breadth of the series, the other too playful and funny (14's a better mix of both, but that's by-the-by). So unless you set out to make a list that deliberately ticks off stories for, say, horror, playfulness, wit, strangeness, big ideas, monsters, villains, action, dialogue, alien worlds, past, present and future - or whatever else you think good Doctor Who encompasses - it's almost inevitably going to have something missing.
The other problem with making a list of ingredients, of course, is that no fan's going to agree with any other fan on which stories have them. I was fascinated to see your attack on "the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys" being illustrated by The Talons of Weng-Chiang, and then calling The Seeds of Doom "the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror". For me, it's quite the opposite. There are some fabulous moments of humour in Seeds, but they're overwhelmed by the horror in what's probably the most violent, macho show in the series' history; Talons, on the other hand, never fails to crack me up, whether it's Greel's hysteria, Jago's bombast or Litefoot trying to eat like Leela. Even Caves is funnier for me than Seeds, with Morgus's blackly comic asides. So I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong; just that it shows the perils of saying 'this story is definitively such-and-such', and that you made me smile by picking as your perfect mix the very story I'd think of if asked to name a "grim and heavy" one "favoured by adolescent boys" that I'd still say was pretty good
True, and a lot depends not only on my memories of a story (I haven't rewatched Talons for ages, but had just passed Seeds in my marathon 1963-2008 episode-by-episode rewatch) but on my mood. Sometimes I'm in a mood to reflect on Talons and all the (Robert) Holmesian humour, black as it may be, comes to the fore - the Doctor berating the policeman, Litefoot and Jago, "Trumpet Voluntary" into a bowl of goldfish etc... and other times the giant rat devouring people, "bent-face", Mr Sin and his knife, and the draining of innocent maidens predominates. Keeping both in mind at once is difficult. I agree that the grimness of Seeds is definitely there on screen, especially for those with a visual memory - the sly humour of most of the dialogue is more prevalent to those with a mainly auditory memory, so for me it only remains in mind when I've recently seen it - I soon forget dialogue, but never images.
And if I'm in a jolly mood when I put it on (as I usually am, because I know I'm in for a delicious treat) then I'm more attuned to pick up the humour. Watching Dr Who can be fascinating, and even if my faulty memory makes me think of Androzani as a morose gun-fest, I am sure when I actually watch it again Holmes's wicked humour will make a powerful impact on me. And hopefully Talons will be a perfect mix of humour and grimness for me when I reach it... perhaps I was too hasty in emphasising its dark side (though the tone of the Torygraph article indicates that humour isn't high on their list of points that recommend a story).
Interesting points you make about Carnival, especially the Hodgson/Mills crossover! I may not have a good auditory memory but I've been paying attention to the sound design on this rewatch/marathon. It's the series greatest technical strength and always worth concentrating on.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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Last edited by AlMiles; 7 Jul 2008 at 6:54 pm.
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#729 16 Aug 2008, 6:47 pm
Borgduck
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Re: Day by Day
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Where's Dorney? has he finally given up & quit?
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#730 19 Aug 2008, 5:01 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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No, I'm still going to work my way through it. At the moment though, I'm caught between two different stage productions, which will probably take me away for a bit. The other difficulty being the neccessity of figuring out how to plug the VHS into the back of the flat telly every single time makes it easier to skip the task...
I might try and burn my VHS copies of Frontier and Planet of the Daleks onto disc so in the various weeks when I'm stuck away from home on tour I can, theoretically, get up to at least Time Warrior
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 1:
I’m going to start this one by declaring an interest. Carnival of Monsters is the first Doctor Who story I ever saw. Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats, 1981, BBC2. The cliffhanger to episode three leaps out in my memory very clearly (and unlike the third cliffhanger of the Three Doctors, I remember it correctly!).
So obviously I have a certain nostalgic fondness for this story. But putting that aside, trying to be objective… well, it’s still pretty much perfect, isn’t it?
Long time readers of my ramblings may recall that I’ve often suggested that Who fans tend to select what they think of as classics based on how ‘adult’ it feels (in order to reinforce their own comfort with an obsessive interest in what’s often regarded as a ‘children’s show’) and as a result are dismissive of anything that’s not obviously telling us how ‘serious’ it is all the time – say through lots of violence, a lack of humour, etc. To be fair, it’s not exactly limited to Who fans – theatre and cinema tend to praise the straight and the serious (the ‘worthy’) as better than the light and frivolous, as if that’s somehow a poorer relation, as if making someone smile has less artistic value than making them cry. See how the Oscars never go to impeccably made comedies or comic performances (I mean, Sean Penn’s wail-fest in Mystic River better than Bill Murray’s Lost in Translation subtlety, or Johnny Depp;s original tour-de-force performancein Pirates of the Caribbean? Get real). I always like to judge a story not by how worthy it is, but by how well it is made – what its intentions are and how well it succeeds in achieving those intentions.
Which is why I was annoyed by the furore when Carnival was announced as the second Pertwee DVD, over such obvious fan favourites as Sea Devils, or Green Death, or Inferno. As if it was bad. Because it just isn’t. It’s about as beautifully realised a piece of television as the Pertwee era ever managed. Those others have a sombre tone, but they’re nowhere near as impeccable. It’s tragic that people can’t appreciate a story this well written simply because it’s got a day-glo set and some jokes.
Look at this episode in particular. It’s about as good an opening as you can get. The initial hook is gorgeous, and entirely reliant on our status as a viewer – what on Earth connects these two strikingly different plot lines? The gaudiness of the alien world is a vital part of this, of course, as it offers a huge contrast to the naturalistic classic serial feel of the SS Bernice sequences, emphasising the differences and exacerbating our confusion.
But there’s more to it than that. The Inter Minor sequences in this episode are incredibly clever writing – for one specific reason I’ll get to in a moment. On the surface, they’re sparkling. The grey skinned inhabitants are beautifully and wittily written, a note perfect parody of bureaucracy, with their own distinctive speech patterns and behaviour. The Lurmans are equally swiftly drawn, recognisable types we understand. After four not especially exciting stories, this is Robert Holmes really becoming the writer we know – an avoidance of the bland clichés of science fiction, rewriting it all into something quirkier, more distinctive.
But the reason those scenes are so clever is not the deft characterisation and humour – it’s the fairly fundamental problem they avoid. In order to preserve the suspense it is vital that we don’t know what the Scope is, or what it does. Explain that and it becomes fairly obvious where the Doctor and Jo actually are. And the Inter Minor plot can’t really go anywhere until we know that. So the script has a difficult balancing act to pull off – it has to have the Inter Minor sequences (other wise there’s no mystery) but it also can’t really do anything with them (otherwise there’s no mystery). So, once again, we have an exercise in procrastination – but here we have a model example of how to do it, because you genuinely don’t notice. The time is filled with beautiful character work, world building, neat little touches of humour. Every scene has a clear purpose and drive to it. It always seems to be progresses. It’s gorgeous slight of hand.
Equally, the Doctor and Jo’s scenes are exactly how these stories need to work. Constantly moving, always with a purpose. The Doctor has his own sub hook for the story (his determination they’re not on Earth) and that drives his section of the script (which again is, by and large, about avoiding getting anywhere in the overall scheme, just a minor mystery to unravel). Notice how every scene is about something, going somewhere. All engaging, all involving. Nothing is there just to fill time.
About as dazzling an opening episode as you’re going to get. And whilst I may be biased, I’m also right.
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#713 21 May 2008, 11:34 am
The Secretive Bus
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Edinburgh
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Re: Day by Day
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You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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Last edited by The Secretive Bus; 21 May 2008 at 11:38 am.
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#714 21 May 2008, 4:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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To be honest, there's not much to say about him in it, really, and most of what there is you've already covered (his appearance is a little depressing). You get the occassional blast of 1st Doctor there ('stop dilly dallying - and cross it'), and the respect accorded him by the others is a decent touch. It's bittersweet.
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#715 23 May 2008, 8:25 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
A lovely line, and a far better swansong than "Stay warm!"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#716 23 May 2008, 8:40 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacar92
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
Jon Preddle's "Timelink" posits that the 1st Doctor garden scenes (here, and in The Five Doctors) occur during the "missing four days" at the end of The War Machines (before he goes off with Ben and Polly. This fits quite well with the Doctor needing to recover from WOTAN's hypnotism attempt and perhaps spending time in the country at his friend Sir Charles Summer's residence. Dodo was also meant to be staying there, but had probably gone off to stay with relatives by then (or something)...
Of course, the garden could also be the one which John Lucarotti had the Doctor "semi-retired" to during his prologue/epilogue to "The Massacre" (Target novelisation).
In any case, due to low temporal energy, the garden scenes and the timescooping (of both One and Two, come to think of it) have to be near the end of their incarnations. The Doctor was severely aged by the Time Destructor in The Daleks' Master Plan, and also suffered a great drain of life energy in The Savages, so after those two stories seems likely. During Tenth Planet 3 or 4 (just before his recovery in 4) would fit except for the shots of him in a garden on the Time Lords' screen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#717 8 Jun 2008, 4:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 2:
One thing you may or may not have noticed as a major predilection of mine in these reviews is the concept of padding. This strange notion Doctor Who fans have that unless a story is all plot, plot, plot, the material is ‘padding’.
You see, for me, there’s no such thing, well, not as such. You only have good writing, or bad writing. Every story has sequences that are used to fill in time, it isn’t all story. And that’s a good thing. Cos if it was just story, everything would seem shallow and bland. The meat of a script happens in the gaps between the plot bits. The bits where people are given personalities, lives, proper identities. Where the world is built. You write those bits badly, or not at all, that’s when you get what’s commonly regarded as ‘padding’. Write them well, and nobody notices. I promise you could name me any classic story you like, that you think doesn’t have an ounce of fat and I could find you something that really, really doesn’t need to be there.
Of course, sometimes this can create a problem. If you need to cut it down, the detail is the first bit you’re going to go for, because by definition it’s unnecessary. But it’s a temptation that has to be resisted, because it’s what gives the story life. As I write this, I’ve just finished watching the Silence in the Library two parter, and it has a specific element that’s a case in point – the fact that two characters share the name Dave is completely irrelevant to the plot. But without it, you have a slightly less interesting, real world. All of a sudden these characters are so much more human.
And this is important in regards to Carnival of Monsters because it gives you some important context. You see, if you are going to use the word ‘padding’, then Carnival is one of the most padded stories of all time.
Look at this episode. Nothing that even vaguely resembles plot happens. We get the expository sequences explaining the plot of the first episode, identifying what the Scope actually is… but then what? The Doctor and Jo spend the episode going for a bit of a wander trying to escape from wherever they are. On Inter Minor, lots of conversations go nowhere, and the characters distract themselves with little subplots that don’t really progress. The simple fact of the matter is that there really isn’t enough plot to sustain four episodes. The Doctor can’t escape for a while yet, the Inter Minorans are just filling in time til he can. If padding was inherently bad, this episode would be awful.
But it just isn’t, and that’s because the time is used well. It’s used for witty exploration of character for example. Everyone in this script feels so distinct, so full. OK, some of that is helped by the fact that they’re all pitched as broad stock figures to a degree, but they’re written with such charm this hardly matters. The touches of humour and quirkiness really aid this as well – one of the truisms of a script is that comedy helps. Give someone a couple of jokes, suddenly they comes across better. Because everyone likes someone who tells a few jokes, don’t they? Again, they stop being ‘characters’, they become ‘people’. There’s never a sense that anything as pointless as filling in time is going on. The time is being used. No matter how consequence-less a sequence is (the Eradicator being used on the Scope for example), they always feel like they’re scenes with direction and purpose.
And even then the script has the balls to comment on its own nature. Beautifully, there’s an utterly irrelevant action sequence that turns up out of nowhere, simply on Vorg’s whim. The script is directly having one for the sake of it, because that’s what the show does, and acknowledging that. The Drashigs are there for a bit of entertainment value, monsters for the kiddies, and that’s how they’re described. The Doctor and Jo are basically trapped inside a television show, getting menaced by things at the right points because they need to be.
So ultimately, this episode is about nothing whatsoever – and yet it’s also tremendous fun.
Dorney
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#718 20 Jun 2008, 8:57 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 3:
Watching this episode, it strikes me that this is the first - of about two, maybe three stories - that's got an organic structure.
Now, you might not understand what I mean by that so I'll try to explain. Before this story starts there is no plot. No story is going to happen, nobody is up to anything.
That a plot arrives is a natural and, yes, organic process simply from setting a few disparate groups of people in opposition and seeing what happens. The plot develops from the characters operating in a normal and straightforward way, and that causing other people to do something new, and it all following on in a chain. Kalik, for example, must be the only Doctor Who villain who only comes up with his evil scheme half way through the story. Up until that point he's a jerk, but he's not actually a villain. This is a story driven by developing the personalities, by the way the characters interact. A status quo that the Doctor upsets with his arrival.
The only other Who story I can think of that does something similar is Androzani - the Doctor and Peri operating as a catalyst for the pre-existing tensions within a political situation to explode. I have a sneaking feeling Ribos Operation has a similar aspect, but it's been a while since I've seen that. Maybe Mysterious Planet.
It is of course no coincidence that they're all by Robert Holmes. Regular readers (both of them) can possibly remember my frustration at how long it takes for the proper Robert Holmes to arrive. For all their conceptual invention, the Auton stories are dull, the less said about Space Pirates the better, although I do think the Krotons is undervalued. Well, he's here. Holmes is all about character. Detailed, quirky, utterly real, and identifiable characters. So naturally, plot's not going to be a major concern of his. That's not to say they have bad plots, obviously, they're impeccable. But that the plot is defined by the characters rather than the other way round.
There's a real sense in this episode of all the threads coming together. All the seperate elements of the story begin to impact on the others - and I'm not just meaning in the obvious ways with the Drashigs attacking the boat and Kalik's developing evil plan. But it's tying up little details - the Doctor needing rope from the boat, the dynamite from there damaging the scope and so on. The construction is beautiful. Pretty darn brilliant stuff.
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#719 23 Jun 2008, 7:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The problem comes with the ending; I think you'll revise your opinion when you watch episode 4 again. Holmes sets up the characters and tensions etc beautifully, no doubts there, but because it takes so long for Kalik to come up with a plan the plan itself is a bit rubbish and is dealt with hurriedly. The same thing goes for The Time Warrior, which has wonderful characters but the plot goes back to Terror of the Autons territory with lots of set pieces designed to fill out 100 minutes, complete with a sudden ending that doesn't justify the length of the story.
Come to think of it, Holmes really wasn't much of a plotter. Everybody loves Pyramids and Talons but everybody also complains about the rushed endings. And The Deadly Assassin has a big plot point that comes out of nowhere halfway through part 4. The Caves of Androzani is, for me, the only totally accomplished work of his and part of that is due to the direction - witness The Ribos Operation which in structure is nearly identical to The Caves of Androzani (lots of existing tensions and figures with whom the Doctor and companion barely interact until part 2 and even then they have little to do with the moving story) but seems a bit boring because the direction is rubbish.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#720 28 Jun 2008, 5:43 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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That's a good point about "Ribos", and though it's a much-vaunted story (the superb design, great acting and... er, Prentis Hancock? ) I always felt the Seeker was naff (cliched old witch) and Unstoffe terribly mundane... perhaps it's just his haircut
Anyway, though I prefer "Ribos" to "Androzani" (the latter just being the usual 1980s Saward sadomasochism, IMO, despite Petey being greater than ever), surely the usual one that gets unfavourably compared to Androzani is "Power of Kroll" - for having much the same plot if nothing else... how do you think they compare, Bus? Must admit I haven't seen Kroll for years, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Abineri, Madoc and McCarthy, even though I know their talents are wasted in this.
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21 May 2008, 11:29 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 1:
I’m going to start this one by declaring an interest. Carnival of Monsters is the first Doctor Who story I ever saw. Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats, 1981, BBC2. The cliffhanger to episode three leaps out in my memory very clearly (and unlike the third cliffhanger of the Three Doctors, I remember it correctly!).
So obviously I have a certain nostalgic fondness for this story. But putting that aside, trying to be objective… well, it’s still pretty much perfect, isn’t it?
Long time readers of my ramblings may recall that I’ve often suggested that Who fans tend to select what they think of as classics based on how ‘adult’ it feels (in order to reinforce their own comfort with an obsessive interest in what’s often regarded as a ‘children’s show’) and as a result are dismissive of anything that’s not obviously telling us how ‘serious’ it is all the time – say through lots of violence, a lack of humour, etc. To be fair, it’s not exactly limited to Who fans – theatre and cinema tend to praise the straight and the serious (the ‘worthy’) as better than the light and frivolous, as if that’s somehow a poorer relation, as if making someone smile has less artistic value than making them cry. See how the Oscars never go to impeccably made comedies or comic performances (I mean, Sean Penn’s wail-fest in Mystic River better than Bill Murray’s Lost in Translation subtlety, or Johnny Depp;s original tour-de-force performancein Pirates of the Caribbean? Get real). I always like to judge a story not by how worthy it is, but by how well it is made – what its intentions are and how well it succeeds in achieving those intentions.
Which is why I was annoyed by the furore when Carnival was announced as the second Pertwee DVD, over such obvious fan favourites as Sea Devils, or Green Death, or Inferno. As if it was bad. Because it just isn’t. It’s about as beautifully realised a piece of television as the Pertwee era ever managed. Those others have a sombre tone, but they’re nowhere near as impeccable. It’s tragic that people can’t appreciate a story this well written simply because it’s got a day-glo set and some jokes.
Look at this episode in particular. It’s about as good an opening as you can get. The initial hook is gorgeous, and entirely reliant on our status as a viewer – what on Earth connects these two strikingly different plot lines? The gaudiness of the alien world is a vital part of this, of course, as it offers a huge contrast to the naturalistic classic serial feel of the SS Bernice sequences, emphasising the differences and exacerbating our confusion.
But there’s more to it than that. The Inter Minor sequences in this episode are incredibly clever writing – for one specific reason I’ll get to in a moment. On the surface, they’re sparkling. The grey skinned inhabitants are beautifully and wittily written, a note perfect parody of bureaucracy, with their own distinctive speech patterns and behaviour. The Lurmans are equally swiftly drawn, recognisable types we understand. After four not especially exciting stories, this is Robert Holmes really becoming the writer we know – an avoidance of the bland clichés of science fiction, rewriting it all into something quirkier, more distinctive.
But the reason those scenes are so clever is not the deft characterisation and humour – it’s the fairly fundamental problem they avoid. In order to preserve the suspense it is vital that we don’t know what the Scope is, or what it does. Explain that and it becomes fairly obvious where the Doctor and Jo actually are. And the Inter Minor plot can’t really go anywhere until we know that. So the script has a difficult balancing act to pull off – it has to have the Inter Minor sequences (other wise there’s no mystery) but it also can’t really do anything with them (otherwise there’s no mystery). So, once again, we have an exercise in procrastination – but here we have a model example of how to do it, because you genuinely don’t notice. The time is filled with beautiful character work, world building, neat little touches of humour. Every scene has a clear purpose and drive to it. It always seems to be progresses. It’s gorgeous slight of hand.
Equally, the Doctor and Jo’s scenes are exactly how these stories need to work. Constantly moving, always with a purpose. The Doctor has his own sub hook for the story (his determination they’re not on Earth) and that drives his section of the script (which again is, by and large, about avoiding getting anywhere in the overall scheme, just a minor mystery to unravel). Notice how every scene is about something, going somewhere. All engaging, all involving. Nothing is there just to fill time.
About as dazzling an opening episode as you’re going to get. And whilst I may be biased, I’m also right.
Dorney
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#713 21 May 2008, 11:34 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by The Secretive Bus; 21 May 2008 at 11:38 am.
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#714 21 May 2008, 4:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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To be honest, there's not much to say about him in it, really, and most of what there is you've already covered (his appearance is a little depressing). You get the occassional blast of 1st Doctor there ('stop dilly dallying - and cross it'), and the respect accorded him by the others is a decent touch. It's bittersweet.
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#715 23 May 2008, 8:25 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
A lovely line, and a far better swansong than "Stay warm!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
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Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#716 23 May 2008, 8:40 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacar92
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
Jon Preddle's "Timelink" posits that the 1st Doctor garden scenes (here, and in The Five Doctors) occur during the "missing four days" at the end of The War Machines (before he goes off with Ben and Polly. This fits quite well with the Doctor needing to recover from WOTAN's hypnotism attempt and perhaps spending time in the country at his friend Sir Charles Summer's residence. Dodo was also meant to be staying there, but had probably gone off to stay with relatives by then (or something)...
Of course, the garden could also be the one which John Lucarotti had the Doctor "semi-retired" to during his prologue/epilogue to "The Massacre" (Target novelisation).
In any case, due to low temporal energy, the garden scenes and the timescooping (of both One and Two, come to think of it) have to be near the end of their incarnations. The Doctor was severely aged by the Time Destructor in The Daleks' Master Plan, and also suffered a great drain of life energy in The Savages, so after those two stories seems likely. During Tenth Planet 3 or 4 (just before his recovery in 4) would fit except for the shots of him in a garden on the Time Lords' screen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#717 8 Jun 2008, 4:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 2:
One thing you may or may not have noticed as a major predilection of mine in these reviews is the concept of padding. This strange notion Doctor Who fans have that unless a story is all plot, plot, plot, the material is ‘padding’.
You see, for me, there’s no such thing, well, not as such. You only have good writing, or bad writing. Every story has sequences that are used to fill in time, it isn’t all story. And that’s a good thing. Cos if it was just story, everything would seem shallow and bland. The meat of a script happens in the gaps between the plot bits. The bits where people are given personalities, lives, proper identities. Where the world is built. You write those bits badly, or not at all, that’s when you get what’s commonly regarded as ‘padding’. Write them well, and nobody notices. I promise you could name me any classic story you like, that you think doesn’t have an ounce of fat and I could find you something that really, really doesn’t need to be there.
Of course, sometimes this can create a problem. If you need to cut it down, the detail is the first bit you’re going to go for, because by definition it’s unnecessary. But it’s a temptation that has to be resisted, because it’s what gives the story life. As I write this, I’ve just finished watching the Silence in the Library two parter, and it has a specific element that’s a case in point – the fact that two characters share the name Dave is completely irrelevant to the plot. But without it, you have a slightly less interesting, real world. All of a sudden these characters are so much more human.
And this is important in regards to Carnival of Monsters because it gives you some important context. You see, if you are going to use the word ‘padding’, then Carnival is one of the most padded stories of all time.
Look at this episode. Nothing that even vaguely resembles plot happens. We get the expository sequences explaining the plot of the first episode, identifying what the Scope actually is… but then what? The Doctor and Jo spend the episode going for a bit of a wander trying to escape from wherever they are. On Inter Minor, lots of conversations go nowhere, and the characters distract themselves with little subplots that don’t really progress. The simple fact of the matter is that there really isn’t enough plot to sustain four episodes. The Doctor can’t escape for a while yet, the Inter Minorans are just filling in time til he can. If padding was inherently bad, this episode would be awful.
But it just isn’t, and that’s because the time is used well. It’s used for witty exploration of character for example. Everyone in this script feels so distinct, so full. OK, some of that is helped by the fact that they’re all pitched as broad stock figures to a degree, but they’re written with such charm this hardly matters. The touches of humour and quirkiness really aid this as well – one of the truisms of a script is that comedy helps. Give someone a couple of jokes, suddenly they comes across better. Because everyone likes someone who tells a few jokes, don’t they? Again, they stop being ‘characters’, they become ‘people’. There’s never a sense that anything as pointless as filling in time is going on. The time is being used. No matter how consequence-less a sequence is (the Eradicator being used on the Scope for example), they always feel like they’re scenes with direction and purpose.
And even then the script has the balls to comment on its own nature. Beautifully, there’s an utterly irrelevant action sequence that turns up out of nowhere, simply on Vorg’s whim. The script is directly having one for the sake of it, because that’s what the show does, and acknowledging that. The Drashigs are there for a bit of entertainment value, monsters for the kiddies, and that’s how they’re described. The Doctor and Jo are basically trapped inside a television show, getting menaced by things at the right points because they need to be.
So ultimately, this episode is about nothing whatsoever – and yet it’s also tremendous fun.
Dorney
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#718 20 Jun 2008, 8:57 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 3:
Watching this episode, it strikes me that this is the first - of about two, maybe three stories - that's got an organic structure.
Now, you might not understand what I mean by that so I'll try to explain. Before this story starts there is no plot. No story is going to happen, nobody is up to anything.
That a plot arrives is a natural and, yes, organic process simply from setting a few disparate groups of people in opposition and seeing what happens. The plot develops from the characters operating in a normal and straightforward way, and that causing other people to do something new, and it all following on in a chain. Kalik, for example, must be the only Doctor Who villain who only comes up with his evil scheme half way through the story. Up until that point he's a jerk, but he's not actually a villain. This is a story driven by developing the personalities, by the way the characters interact. A status quo that the Doctor upsets with his arrival.
The only other Who story I can think of that does something similar is Androzani - the Doctor and Peri operating as a catalyst for the pre-existing tensions within a political situation to explode. I have a sneaking feeling Ribos Operation has a similar aspect, but it's been a while since I've seen that. Maybe Mysterious Planet.
It is of course no coincidence that they're all by Robert Holmes. Regular readers (both of them) can possibly remember my frustration at how long it takes for the proper Robert Holmes to arrive. For all their conceptual invention, the Auton stories are dull, the less said about Space Pirates the better, although I do think the Krotons is undervalued. Well, he's here. Holmes is all about character. Detailed, quirky, utterly real, and identifiable characters. So naturally, plot's not going to be a major concern of his. That's not to say they have bad plots, obviously, they're impeccable. But that the plot is defined by the characters rather than the other way round.
There's a real sense in this episode of all the threads coming together. All the seperate elements of the story begin to impact on the others - and I'm not just meaning in the obvious ways with the Drashigs attacking the boat and Kalik's developing evil plan. But it's tying up little details - the Doctor needing rope from the boat, the dynamite from there damaging the scope and so on. The construction is beautiful. Pretty darn brilliant stuff.
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#719 23 Jun 2008, 7:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The problem comes with the ending; I think you'll revise your opinion when you watch episode 4 again. Holmes sets up the characters and tensions etc beautifully, no doubts there, but because it takes so long for Kalik to come up with a plan the plan itself is a bit rubbish and is dealt with hurriedly. The same thing goes for The Time Warrior, which has wonderful characters but the plot goes back to Terror of the Autons territory with lots of set pieces designed to fill out 100 minutes, complete with a sudden ending that doesn't justify the length of the story.
Come to think of it, Holmes really wasn't much of a plotter. Everybody loves Pyramids and Talons but everybody also complains about the rushed endings. And The Deadly Assassin has a big plot point that comes out of nowhere halfway through part 4. The Caves of Androzani is, for me, the only totally accomplished work of his and part of that is due to the direction - witness The Ribos Operation which in structure is nearly identical to The Caves of Androzani (lots of existing tensions and figures with whom the Doctor and companion barely interact until part 2 and even then they have little to do with the moving story) but seems a bit boring because the direction is rubbish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#720 28 Jun 2008, 5:43 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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That's a good point about "Ribos", and though it's a much-vaunted story (the superb design, great acting and... er, Prentis Hancock? ) I always felt the Seeker was naff (cliched old witch) and Unstoffe terribly mundane... perhaps it's just his haircut
Anyway, though I prefer "Ribos" to "Androzani" (the latter just being the usual 1980s Saward sadomasochism, IMO, despite Petey being greater than ever), surely the usual one that gets unfavourably compared to Androzani is "Power of Kroll" - for having much the same plot if nothing else... how do you think they compare, Bus? Must admit I haven't seen Kroll for years, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Abineri, Madoc and McCarthy, even though I know their talents are wasted in this.
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21 May 2008, 11:29 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 1:
I’m going to start this one by declaring an interest. Carnival of Monsters is the first Doctor Who story I ever saw. Five Faces of Doctor Who repeats, 1981, BBC2. The cliffhanger to episode three leaps out in my memory very clearly (and unlike the third cliffhanger of the Three Doctors, I remember it correctly!).
So obviously I have a certain nostalgic fondness for this story. But putting that aside, trying to be objective… well, it’s still pretty much perfect, isn’t it?
Long time readers of my ramblings may recall that I’ve often suggested that Who fans tend to select what they think of as classics based on how ‘adult’ it feels (in order to reinforce their own comfort with an obsessive interest in what’s often regarded as a ‘children’s show’) and as a result are dismissive of anything that’s not obviously telling us how ‘serious’ it is all the time – say through lots of violence, a lack of humour, etc. To be fair, it’s not exactly limited to Who fans – theatre and cinema tend to praise the straight and the serious (the ‘worthy’) as better than the light and frivolous, as if that’s somehow a poorer relation, as if making someone smile has less artistic value than making them cry. See how the Oscars never go to impeccably made comedies or comic performances (I mean, Sean Penn’s wail-fest in Mystic River better than Bill Murray’s Lost in Translation subtlety, or Johnny Depp;s original tour-de-force performancein Pirates of the Caribbean? Get real). I always like to judge a story not by how worthy it is, but by how well it is made – what its intentions are and how well it succeeds in achieving those intentions.
Which is why I was annoyed by the furore when Carnival was announced as the second Pertwee DVD, over such obvious fan favourites as Sea Devils, or Green Death, or Inferno. As if it was bad. Because it just isn’t. It’s about as beautifully realised a piece of television as the Pertwee era ever managed. Those others have a sombre tone, but they’re nowhere near as impeccable. It’s tragic that people can’t appreciate a story this well written simply because it’s got a day-glo set and some jokes.
Look at this episode in particular. It’s about as good an opening as you can get. The initial hook is gorgeous, and entirely reliant on our status as a viewer – what on Earth connects these two strikingly different plot lines? The gaudiness of the alien world is a vital part of this, of course, as it offers a huge contrast to the naturalistic classic serial feel of the SS Bernice sequences, emphasising the differences and exacerbating our confusion.
But there’s more to it than that. The Inter Minor sequences in this episode are incredibly clever writing – for one specific reason I’ll get to in a moment. On the surface, they’re sparkling. The grey skinned inhabitants are beautifully and wittily written, a note perfect parody of bureaucracy, with their own distinctive speech patterns and behaviour. The Lurmans are equally swiftly drawn, recognisable types we understand. After four not especially exciting stories, this is Robert Holmes really becoming the writer we know – an avoidance of the bland clichés of science fiction, rewriting it all into something quirkier, more distinctive.
But the reason those scenes are so clever is not the deft characterisation and humour – it’s the fairly fundamental problem they avoid. In order to preserve the suspense it is vital that we don’t know what the Scope is, or what it does. Explain that and it becomes fairly obvious where the Doctor and Jo actually are. And the Inter Minor plot can’t really go anywhere until we know that. So the script has a difficult balancing act to pull off – it has to have the Inter Minor sequences (other wise there’s no mystery) but it also can’t really do anything with them (otherwise there’s no mystery). So, once again, we have an exercise in procrastination – but here we have a model example of how to do it, because you genuinely don’t notice. The time is filled with beautiful character work, world building, neat little touches of humour. Every scene has a clear purpose and drive to it. It always seems to be progresses. It’s gorgeous slight of hand.
Equally, the Doctor and Jo’s scenes are exactly how these stories need to work. Constantly moving, always with a purpose. The Doctor has his own sub hook for the story (his determination they’re not on Earth) and that drives his section of the script (which again is, by and large, about avoiding getting anywhere in the overall scheme, just a minor mystery to unravel). Notice how every scene is about something, going somewhere. All engaging, all involving. Nothing is there just to fill time.
About as dazzling an opening episode as you’re going to get. And whilst I may be biased, I’m also right.
Dorney
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#713 21 May 2008, 11:34 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by The Secretive Bus; 21 May 2008 at 11:38 am.
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#714 21 May 2008, 4:25 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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To be honest, there's not much to say about him in it, really, and most of what there is you've already covered (his appearance is a little depressing). You get the occassional blast of 1st Doctor there ('stop dilly dallying - and cross it'), and the respect accorded him by the others is a decent touch. It's bittersweet.
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#715 23 May 2008, 8:25 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
You got through the entire Three Doctors review without mentioning Hartnell once!
Everybody bangs on about the dandy and a clown line but for my money his finest line in the story, and indeed the last line Hartnell ever says in Doctor Who (so it's a fairly emotional moment too from that perspective, especially if he's your fave), is the "And considering the way things have been going... well I shudder to think what you'd do without me!"
A lovely line, and a far better swansong than "Stay warm!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#716 23 May 2008, 8:40 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dacar92
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
Jon Preddle's "Timelink" posits that the 1st Doctor garden scenes (here, and in The Five Doctors) occur during the "missing four days" at the end of The War Machines (before he goes off with Ben and Polly. This fits quite well with the Doctor needing to recover from WOTAN's hypnotism attempt and perhaps spending time in the country at his friend Sir Charles Summer's residence. Dodo was also meant to be staying there, but had probably gone off to stay with relatives by then (or something)...
Of course, the garden could also be the one which John Lucarotti had the Doctor "semi-retired" to during his prologue/epilogue to "The Massacre" (Target novelisation).
In any case, due to low temporal energy, the garden scenes and the timescooping (of both One and Two, come to think of it) have to be near the end of their incarnations. The Doctor was severely aged by the Time Destructor in The Daleks' Master Plan, and also suffered a great drain of life energy in The Savages, so after those two stories seems likely. During Tenth Planet 3 or 4 (just before his recovery in 4) would fit except for the shots of him in a garden on the Time Lords' screen.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#717 8 Jun 2008, 4:52 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 2:
One thing you may or may not have noticed as a major predilection of mine in these reviews is the concept of padding. This strange notion Doctor Who fans have that unless a story is all plot, plot, plot, the material is ‘padding’.
You see, for me, there’s no such thing, well, not as such. You only have good writing, or bad writing. Every story has sequences that are used to fill in time, it isn’t all story. And that’s a good thing. Cos if it was just story, everything would seem shallow and bland. The meat of a script happens in the gaps between the plot bits. The bits where people are given personalities, lives, proper identities. Where the world is built. You write those bits badly, or not at all, that’s when you get what’s commonly regarded as ‘padding’. Write them well, and nobody notices. I promise you could name me any classic story you like, that you think doesn’t have an ounce of fat and I could find you something that really, really doesn’t need to be there.
Of course, sometimes this can create a problem. If you need to cut it down, the detail is the first bit you’re going to go for, because by definition it’s unnecessary. But it’s a temptation that has to be resisted, because it’s what gives the story life. As I write this, I’ve just finished watching the Silence in the Library two parter, and it has a specific element that’s a case in point – the fact that two characters share the name Dave is completely irrelevant to the plot. But without it, you have a slightly less interesting, real world. All of a sudden these characters are so much more human.
And this is important in regards to Carnival of Monsters because it gives you some important context. You see, if you are going to use the word ‘padding’, then Carnival is one of the most padded stories of all time.
Look at this episode. Nothing that even vaguely resembles plot happens. We get the expository sequences explaining the plot of the first episode, identifying what the Scope actually is… but then what? The Doctor and Jo spend the episode going for a bit of a wander trying to escape from wherever they are. On Inter Minor, lots of conversations go nowhere, and the characters distract themselves with little subplots that don’t really progress. The simple fact of the matter is that there really isn’t enough plot to sustain four episodes. The Doctor can’t escape for a while yet, the Inter Minorans are just filling in time til he can. If padding was inherently bad, this episode would be awful.
But it just isn’t, and that’s because the time is used well. It’s used for witty exploration of character for example. Everyone in this script feels so distinct, so full. OK, some of that is helped by the fact that they’re all pitched as broad stock figures to a degree, but they’re written with such charm this hardly matters. The touches of humour and quirkiness really aid this as well – one of the truisms of a script is that comedy helps. Give someone a couple of jokes, suddenly they comes across better. Because everyone likes someone who tells a few jokes, don’t they? Again, they stop being ‘characters’, they become ‘people’. There’s never a sense that anything as pointless as filling in time is going on. The time is being used. No matter how consequence-less a sequence is (the Eradicator being used on the Scope for example), they always feel like they’re scenes with direction and purpose.
And even then the script has the balls to comment on its own nature. Beautifully, there’s an utterly irrelevant action sequence that turns up out of nowhere, simply on Vorg’s whim. The script is directly having one for the sake of it, because that’s what the show does, and acknowledging that. The Drashigs are there for a bit of entertainment value, monsters for the kiddies, and that’s how they’re described. The Doctor and Jo are basically trapped inside a television show, getting menaced by things at the right points because they need to be.
So ultimately, this episode is about nothing whatsoever – and yet it’s also tremendous fun.
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#718 20 Jun 2008, 8:57 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 3:
Watching this episode, it strikes me that this is the first - of about two, maybe three stories - that's got an organic structure.
Now, you might not understand what I mean by that so I'll try to explain. Before this story starts there is no plot. No story is going to happen, nobody is up to anything.
That a plot arrives is a natural and, yes, organic process simply from setting a few disparate groups of people in opposition and seeing what happens. The plot develops from the characters operating in a normal and straightforward way, and that causing other people to do something new, and it all following on in a chain. Kalik, for example, must be the only Doctor Who villain who only comes up with his evil scheme half way through the story. Up until that point he's a jerk, but he's not actually a villain. This is a story driven by developing the personalities, by the way the characters interact. A status quo that the Doctor upsets with his arrival.
The only other Who story I can think of that does something similar is Androzani - the Doctor and Peri operating as a catalyst for the pre-existing tensions within a political situation to explode. I have a sneaking feeling Ribos Operation has a similar aspect, but it's been a while since I've seen that. Maybe Mysterious Planet.
It is of course no coincidence that they're all by Robert Holmes. Regular readers (both of them) can possibly remember my frustration at how long it takes for the proper Robert Holmes to arrive. For all their conceptual invention, the Auton stories are dull, the less said about Space Pirates the better, although I do think the Krotons is undervalued. Well, he's here. Holmes is all about character. Detailed, quirky, utterly real, and identifiable characters. So naturally, plot's not going to be a major concern of his. That's not to say they have bad plots, obviously, they're impeccable. But that the plot is defined by the characters rather than the other way round.
There's a real sense in this episode of all the threads coming together. All the seperate elements of the story begin to impact on the others - and I'm not just meaning in the obvious ways with the Drashigs attacking the boat and Kalik's developing evil plan. But it's tying up little details - the Doctor needing rope from the boat, the dynamite from there damaging the scope and so on. The construction is beautiful. Pretty darn brilliant stuff.
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#719 23 Jun 2008, 7:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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The problem comes with the ending; I think you'll revise your opinion when you watch episode 4 again. Holmes sets up the characters and tensions etc beautifully, no doubts there, but because it takes so long for Kalik to come up with a plan the plan itself is a bit rubbish and is dealt with hurriedly. The same thing goes for The Time Warrior, which has wonderful characters but the plot goes back to Terror of the Autons territory with lots of set pieces designed to fill out 100 minutes, complete with a sudden ending that doesn't justify the length of the story.
Come to think of it, Holmes really wasn't much of a plotter. Everybody loves Pyramids and Talons but everybody also complains about the rushed endings. And The Deadly Assassin has a big plot point that comes out of nowhere halfway through part 4. The Caves of Androzani is, for me, the only totally accomplished work of his and part of that is due to the direction - witness The Ribos Operation which in structure is nearly identical to The Caves of Androzani (lots of existing tensions and figures with whom the Doctor and companion barely interact until part 2 and even then they have little to do with the moving story) but seems a bit boring because the direction is rubbish.
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#720 28 Jun 2008, 5:43 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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That's a good point about "Ribos", and though it's a much-vaunted story (the superb design, great acting and... er, Prentis Hancock? ) I always felt the Seeker was naff (cliched old witch) and Unstoffe terribly mundane... perhaps it's just his haircut
Anyway, though I prefer "Ribos" to "Androzani" (the latter just being the usual 1980s Saward sadomasochism, IMO, despite Petey being greater than ever), surely the usual one that gets unfavourably compared to Androzani is "Power of Kroll" - for having much the same plot if nothing else... how do you think they compare, Bus? Must admit I haven't seen Kroll for years, I'm quite looking forward to seeing Abineri, Madoc and McCarthy, even though I know their talents are wasted in this.
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29 Jun 2008, 12:32 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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The Power of Kroll gets compared to Androzani simply because there's a bit of gun-running in it. Otherwise in structure and themes it's a completely different story! Going by the "pre-existing tensions snapped by presence of Doctor" bit, the chaps at the refinery go off to shoot the gun runner off their own bat. The Doctor spends the rest of the time doing traditionally Doctorish things and saving the day multiple times. The Doctor of Androzani is merely trying to stay alive and doesn't directly contribute to anybody's downfall, nor does he achieve anything other than to save Peri and get back to the TARDIS in time to turn into Colin Baker. So there's no similarity between the stories at all.
Fair enough in Ribos the Doctor ends up killing the Graff but the other characters kill each other off. The Doctor spends the first two episodes not getting involved in anything and the second two running away from the baddies. It's also the Doctor that upsets things by his very presence, making everybody paranoid or suspicious and thereby ruining Garron's money making scam.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
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#722 3 Jul 2008, 2:07 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Carnival of Monsters 4:
This most beautiful and elegant of stories comes to a beautiful and elegant finish.
It's odd to see how much plot is crammed into this episode, given the fairly light content of the previous three. Well, I say odd, but it's not really, is it? They've slightly run out of time. And they need to get through it. Yet, it never feels rushed, or crowded.
And indeed, it's somewhat unfair to suggest that there hasn't been much in the previous three. This is a fairly blatant slow burner of a story, with several disparate thread set up and left to trail before eventually being tied together. All of the set ups start to pay off, the repetition on the ship hits home, and so on. It's all dealt with in elegant simplicity.
For example, the resolution of the Kalik storyline. It's interesting to note that the DWM Pertwee special from years back pointed out that the Doctor doesn't get involved in this ('the main thrust of the storyline' it said) until episode three. Now that's wrong on several levels - the fact it's episode four pretty much being the least of them.
The fact is the Doctor doesn't even realise there's an evil villain in the story at all. As far as he's aware, the whole story is about him rescuing himself and Jo and saving the other inhabitants of the scope. He simply isn't aware that there's another plot. And that's why the swift resolution of said plot doesn't really matter.
Because it's a punchline. The Inter-Minorans are all cretins to a man, but in the grand comic tradition, one of them thinks he's a genius. The only difference is the script doesn't let us realise this until the last moment. One of my favourite jokes of this episode is the fact that Kalik spends a good two minutes explaining to Orum how they'll be perfectly safe from the Drashigs as they cause mayhem and destruction - then promptly gets killed pretty much instantly as their only victim. This is a low key story. Defeating a grand villain in a grand way in such a tale would be out of keeping and disappointing. Much fitter that he turns out to be a rubbish villain, who defeats himself, and has his entire scheme foiled by a supporting character.
The other problem with that DWM thing is that it's a sideshow, not the main thrust. The central thrust is the zoo/television metaphor that is the Scope. Kalik isn't the villain, not really, or at the very most a secondary one. Vorg is the villain. An unthinking, daft one, but the villain nonetheless. What he's doing is at least as bad as what Kalik fails to do... but the key difference is that crucially, when push comes to the shove, he decides to be brave, because he's a decent chap at heart.
And that's why this story is great - it's a genuinely lovely tale filled with wit and heart, where the villains are misguided and likeable rather than out and out bad (heck, even the subsiduary ones are more entertaining than evil). It's honest and true about humanity. Just because it's slight and small and not self important or 'worthy', doesn't mean it's not as good as more ostensibly serious scripts. Along with Inferno, the best story of the Pertwee era.
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#723 4 Jul 2008, 2:12 am
Xipuloxx
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Re: Day by Day
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*Applause*
Thanks for that Dorney. Carnival is a great story IMO, and it just doesn't get anywhere near enough love. Largely, I think, because people keep expecting it to be something it's not. But it does what intends to do, and does it brilliantly.
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Fear Me, for I am Quaadzelaan Xipuloxx! All hail Xipuloxx the Unsound!
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#724 4 Jul 2008, 12:12 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xipuloxx
But it does what intends to do, and does it brilliantly.
You've just nailed precisely what I think a good script/story is. Ask yourself firstly what does this story want to do? Secondly, how well it achieves that.
Hefty drama isn't inherently better than comedy. It just keeps yelling at you that it's important.
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#725 4 Jul 2008, 12:48 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Hefty drama isn't inherently better than comedy. It just keeps yelling at you that it's important.
That's pretty much what I thought when I read The Daily Telegraph's new "Top Ten Who Stories" list:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main...o-episodes.xml
Androzani? Talons? Genesis?? Inferno??? Mainly the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys. One of the great things "Classic Who" does is mixing humour with the grimness.
"The Seeds of Doom", with astonishing direction by Douglas Camfield, has the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror. That easily beats "Talons".
"The Massacre" (interestingly, like "Blink", a "Doctor-lite" story) is perhaps the second-best Hartnell after the superlative and assured "The Aztecs", though I prefer the immaculate writing and performances of "The Crusade" or the devil-may-care abandon of the epic "Daleks' Master Plan" (both Camfield again - I'm spotting a pattern here).
Amusing that they mention "Inferno" as being a great example of Camfield's work - apart from the pre-filmed exteriors and one studio session, the rest was directed by Barry Letts after Camfield fell ill. Ever the hard taskmaster, Camfield (whose wife was in "Inferno") had to visit a cast member on "Seeds" who had also been hospitalised. Although his wife was all sympathy, Camfield himself just asked the actor when he would return to work!!
They need more humour in the list, and Troughton excels at the combination of laughs and thrills. "Power of the Daleks" is the ultimate Dalek story, but also the ultimate regeneration story. And you have to go a long way to beat "The Invasion" (guess what - Camfield again).
However, I love Carnival because it was the first Target book I ever got (it was a birthday present from my Nan) - took me ages to pick it up, but when I had, I became a real fan as opposed to just someone who watched the show.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#726 4 Jul 2008, 4:31 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Carnival of Monsters 4:
This most beautiful and elegant of stories comes to a beautiful and elegant finish.
Ah, well then. Colour me "wrong".
I do like the story a great deal, don't get me wrong, but it's very plotless and I prefer my stories to have a narrative thrust. That's what the Kalik plotline seems to be there for and the sudden ending after so many scenes of him plotting and scheming doesn't strike me as any sort of punchline, more a "Oh my God I've five minutes to end the story" convenience. Since Holmes' last story was Terror of the Autons and the next one is The Time Warrior (both of which end suddenly out of nowhere) I don't buy that Holmes suddenly became a master craftsman of plotting for one story.
It's a good collection of set pieces and the performances are wonderful but the lack of a real plot lets it down. Still, it's miles better to what comes next.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
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#727 7 Jul 2008, 10:55 am
Richard2801
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
...Androzani? Talons? Genesis?? Inferno??? Mainly the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys. One of the great things "Classic Who" does is mixing humour with the grimness.
"The Seeds of Doom", with astonishing direction by Douglas Camfield, has the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror. That easily beats "Talons".
...However, I love Carnival because it was the first Target book I ever got (it was a birthday present from my Nan) - took me ages to pick it up, but when I had, I became a real fan as opposed to just someone who watched the show.
A splendid review of Carnival as ever, John, pulling out much of its greatness - it's an odd one for me, having loved it like AlMiles as a kid from the book (has there ever been a better bit of blurb than "The Doctor and Jo land on a cargo ship crossing the Indian Ocean in the year 1926... Or so they think"?), but feeling now that though it's very entertaining, there's something not quite right. Perhaps it's that the TV story always misses some of the little polishes from Terrance’s book for me (and Pertwee nicks most of Jo's best lines), while the book just doesn’t have enough sparkle on its own to be Terrance's best. So, in my head, there's a more satisfying fusion of both.
Pop fact: half-way through doing the special sound for this story, Brian Hodgson resigned to found his own studio, so Dick Mills took over from here until 1989 – which means that the Drashig cry, one of the most memorable sound effects for me, was down to both of them. It’s Brian’s original scream into the mike, with Dick’s treatment on it.
But back to AlMiles on the Torygraph (above). I agree very much with the thrust of your post, but it seems to me a natural consequence of devising a list of individual 'best stories' rather than a list of stories that represent what's best in the series. Two of my favourite seasons are 13 and 16, for example, but I wouldn't call either 'representative' on their own - one's too grim and violent to sum up the breadth of the series, the other too playful and funny (14's a better mix of both, but that's by-the-by). So unless you set out to make a list that deliberately ticks off stories for, say, horror, playfulness, wit, strangeness, big ideas, monsters, villains, action, dialogue, alien worlds, past, present and future - or whatever else you think good Doctor Who encompasses - it's almost inevitably going to have something missing.
The other problem with making a list of ingredients, of course, is that no fan's going to agree with any other fan on which stories have them. I was fascinated to see your attack on "the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys" being illustrated by The Talons of Weng-Chiang, and then calling The Seeds of Doom "the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror". For me, it's quite the opposite. There are some fabulous moments of humour in Seeds, but they're overwhelmed by the horror in what's probably the most violent, macho show in the series' history; Talons, on the other hand, never fails to crack me up, whether it's Greel's hysteria, Jago's bombast or Litefoot trying to eat like Leela. Even Caves is funnier for me than Seeds, with Morgus's blackly comic asides. So I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong; just that it shows the perils of saying 'this story is definitively such-and-such', and that you made me smile by picking as your perfect mix the very story I'd think of if asked to name a "grim and heavy" one "favoured by adolescent boys" that I'd still say was pretty good
(Alex, borrowing Richard)
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Richard
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#728 7 Jul 2008, 6:51 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard2801
But back to AlMiles on the Torygraph (above). I agree very much with the thrust of your post, but it seems to me a natural consequence of devising a list of individual 'best stories' rather than a list of stories that represent what's best in the series. Two of my favourite seasons are 13 and 16, for example, but I wouldn't call either 'representative' on their own - one's too grim and violent to sum up the breadth of the series, the other too playful and funny (14's a better mix of both, but that's by-the-by). So unless you set out to make a list that deliberately ticks off stories for, say, horror, playfulness, wit, strangeness, big ideas, monsters, villains, action, dialogue, alien worlds, past, present and future - or whatever else you think good Doctor Who encompasses - it's almost inevitably going to have something missing.
The other problem with making a list of ingredients, of course, is that no fan's going to agree with any other fan on which stories have them. I was fascinated to see your attack on "the grim and heavy stories favoured by adolescent boys" being illustrated by The Talons of Weng-Chiang, and then calling The Seeds of Doom "the perfect mix of sharp witticisms and suspense/mystery/horror". For me, it's quite the opposite. There are some fabulous moments of humour in Seeds, but they're overwhelmed by the horror in what's probably the most violent, macho show in the series' history; Talons, on the other hand, never fails to crack me up, whether it's Greel's hysteria, Jago's bombast or Litefoot trying to eat like Leela. Even Caves is funnier for me than Seeds, with Morgus's blackly comic asides. So I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong; just that it shows the perils of saying 'this story is definitively such-and-such', and that you made me smile by picking as your perfect mix the very story I'd think of if asked to name a "grim and heavy" one "favoured by adolescent boys" that I'd still say was pretty good
True, and a lot depends not only on my memories of a story (I haven't rewatched Talons for ages, but had just passed Seeds in my marathon 1963-2008 episode-by-episode rewatch) but on my mood. Sometimes I'm in a mood to reflect on Talons and all the (Robert) Holmesian humour, black as it may be, comes to the fore - the Doctor berating the policeman, Litefoot and Jago, "Trumpet Voluntary" into a bowl of goldfish etc... and other times the giant rat devouring people, "bent-face", Mr Sin and his knife, and the draining of innocent maidens predominates. Keeping both in mind at once is difficult. I agree that the grimness of Seeds is definitely there on screen, especially for those with a visual memory - the sly humour of most of the dialogue is more prevalent to those with a mainly auditory memory, so for me it only remains in mind when I've recently seen it - I soon forget dialogue, but never images.
And if I'm in a jolly mood when I put it on (as I usually am, because I know I'm in for a delicious treat) then I'm more attuned to pick up the humour. Watching Dr Who can be fascinating, and even if my faulty memory makes me think of Androzani as a morose gun-fest, I am sure when I actually watch it again Holmes's wicked humour will make a powerful impact on me. And hopefully Talons will be a perfect mix of humour and grimness for me when I reach it... perhaps I was too hasty in emphasising its dark side (though the tone of the Torygraph article indicates that humour isn't high on their list of points that recommend a story).
Interesting points you make about Carnival, especially the Hodgson/Mills crossover! I may not have a good auditory memory but I've been paying attention to the sound design on this rewatch/marathon. It's the series greatest technical strength and always worth concentrating on.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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Last edited by AlMiles; 7 Jul 2008 at 6:54 pm.
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#729 16 Aug 2008, 6:47 pm
Borgduck
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Re: Day by Day
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Where's Dorney? has he finally given up & quit?
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#730 19 Aug 2008, 5:01 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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No, I'm still going to work my way through it. At the moment though, I'm caught between two different stage productions, which will probably take me away for a bit. The other difficulty being the neccessity of figuring out how to plug the VHS into the back of the flat telly every single time makes it easier to skip the task...
I might try and burn my VHS copies of Frontier and Planet of the Daleks onto disc so in the various weeks when I'm stuck away from home on tour I can, theoretically, get up to at least Time Warrior
The Three Doctors
11 May 2008, 11:05 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Three Doctors 1:
Fun. How important is it? During my time with Cronos, I received an email from my old chum Alex Wilcock (a name some of you may remember as a regular contributor to DWM’s Time Team). He said that the last two stories were the only ones he and his partner wildly disagreed on. Alex thought the Mutants a good script let down by its execution, and the Time Monster awful – whereas the opposing view was that the former was tedious and the latter fun.
It’s hard not to see the point. You see, for all the intelligence of its script, the Mutants isn’t especially entertaining. And vacuous as the Time Monster may be, it’s got an awful lot of enjoyable set pieces and camp villainy. If you’re in the mood to switch your brain off, and settle down with some escapist entertainment, you’re never going to pick the former over the latter. So I refer you back to the question I started with. How important is ‘fun’?
Watching The Three Doctors, I can’t help but feel this is going to be a question that comes up again. As it stands this episode is enormous fun. There’s not much else to it than that, though, not so far anyway. But in some ways that’s a clear difference from The Time Monster. Most of the fun in the first four episodes of that story is incidental, or really spread out. As I said above, you have to switch your brain off. Whereas this story seems to have higher standards for its fun. Ambitious fun. It wants to be the most fun it can be, not the barest minimum. This is the people making the show having fun, rather than just hoping they can get away with it.
So why is it more fun than its predecessor, or at least more successful fun? Well, it’s relentlessly fast paced for one. Within the first ten minutes or so we’ve established an, admittedly, somewhat nebulous threat and are going into full grown battle mode. This is an obvious necessity of the premise, as we can’t really spend too much time establishing the threat when we need the other Doctor’s in before the episode ends. But necessity leads to great things in this case. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not usually a fan of speed for the sake of speed. But this is perfectly paced. It’s fast, but relatively simplistic (the entire plot of the first fifteen minutes or so is ‘blob attacks’) so the speed doesn’t leave it feeling rushed. OK, it does cause a couple of problems on a plot level, with the Doctor managing to leap to the right conclusion at the speed of light with very little actual evidence, and very weak justifications for the blob attacking Ollis and Tyler. But it’s all pitched with such joie de vivre that you get swept up. The whole thing is written and performed with bravado and confidence so you don’t care about minor plot problems. Within minutes you’re pitched into surprisingly high gear action – and part of the fun is that you still don’t have any real idea what’s going on.
And then of course, Patrick bloody Troughton turns up, and it kicks into high gear. The scenes between the two Doctors are the blatant highlights of the episode, full of wit and vigour. The idea of them not really getting on is probably the obvious choice, but that doesn’t make it any less the correct one (where’s the fun in them getting on all the time, eh?). It’s the perfect dynamic, and the two actors are really up to the task, the sci-fi equivalent of the odd couple. There’s not really much to add to that, as discussion of those scenes is almost redundant. They’re gloriously enjoyable, two great characters and actors (even entertainers) playing off each other brilliantly. What’s not to love?
When it comes down to it, The Three Doctors seems to me to be more fun than it’s predecessor because there’s more to fun than just set pieces. That’s the difference between dumb fun and fun. It needs heart, and joy, and the Three Doctors has that in spades. There’s the real sense that everyone involved is having a ball. Whereas the last story doesn’t have that same commitment to the material (at least until the final two episodes). No-one’s having fun, they just seem desperate to get through it.
So I suppose what it comes down to is that the most important isn’t whether something is fun or not. But that fun has to be done well. Unexciting drama is almost fine. Whereas there’s nothing as bad as dull fun.
Dorney
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#706 11 May 2008, 12:32 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors starts well but I must admit I find it a bit of a slog, especially the last two episodes. Plus watching Billy clearly struggling with the script is a depressing experience which, for me, sucks a lot of the fun out of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#707 15 May 2008, 4:29 am
Dacar92
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Chicago
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
The Three Doctors starts well but I must admit I find it a bit of a slog, especially the last two episodes. Plus watching Billy clearly struggling with the script is a depressing experience which, for me, sucks a lot of the fun out of it.
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the point of being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?
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#708 15 May 2008, 10:38 am
Phil W
one percent evil
Wellington
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Last On: 19 Jul 2009 2:23 am
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely it is just the effect of him being in proximity (however tenuously) to two of his subsequent selves [ref TimeCrash]?
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#709 16 May 2008, 2:09 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 2:
After the relentless pace of the opener, it’s time to calm down a touch.
As I mentioned last time, the speed of the first episode was down to the amount of plot required before they could reach the vital money moments of the episode (the 1st and 2nd Doctors turning up), that had to appear before the cliffhanger. This episode slightly pays the price as it’s clear that it’s marking time slightly.
This is most clear in the way that the 2nd Doctor doesn’t really achieve anything throughout the episode, and at the climax basically does what the 3rd did at the end of the last one. This wouldn’t be a major problem if it wasn’t for the fact that the third Doctor doesn’t really do much in this episode either – after the lump of anti-matter has gone out of it’s way to capture him and transport him through a black hole, he’s left to just wander around for a bit until he gets taken to a citadel, where he once again doesn’t meet anyone or do anything.
This could all be terribly tedious, but once again it’s lifted by the sparkling script. The sequences of Doctor two interacting with Benton and the Brigadier are enjoyable and amusing – ok, so the Brigadier pretty much has to turn into a moron, and act as an all purpose comedy fool, but it is something rather big he’s come across so it’s at least vaguely plausible, and it does at least manage to be funny.
Equally, there’s a engagingly witty sense of the surreal about the episode. This manifests itself in subtle ways – the oddball design of the palace, complete with the bizarre, unworldly, plinky-plonk soundtrack (innocently childlike, yet alien and strange) But it’s also obviously there in the Doctor and Jo wandering about a quarry, absolutely as typical an ‘alien’ environment as the series has and yet constantly bumping into water coolers and worktops. It’s a gorgeous juxtaposition of the quirky and the mundane. . The best example of this is their discovery of Doctor Tyler, idly standing in the middle of nowhere muttering through the mathematics of his situation in a perfect parody of the man so dull and science obsessed he’s too busy looking at the minutiae and misses the biggest and most important fact of all (he’s not on Earth).
OK, there’s only so long the episode can sustain itself on charm alone, and sure enough it does eventually have to resort to the blatant padding of Tyler’s escape attempt to fill in the time (though in many ways you do have to admire the gall of the story to have his first words when he rejoins the Doctor and Jo as: ‘Well, that was a waste of time’). But even then, the general sense of style carries the show through so you can’t help but be charmed.
There’s not much else to add. Bit of a giggle, really. That's all.
Dorney
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#710 18 May 2008, 4:55 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 3:
OK, whilst I’m still enjoying this… it’d be nice if there was a bit more to the plot, wouldn’t there?
After a good couple of episodes messing around, we finally meet the proper villain of the story, and he’s the king of exposition, and that’s sort of a problem.
We’re once more dealing with the famous writing maxim ‘don’t tell, show’. Now, meeting a famous character out of legend is an exciting and intriguing prospect – unfortunately it’s less so when your audience have no idea whatsoever who this bloke is. Because then you’ve got to spend a good few minutes telling the audience who he is, why he’s important and going ‘he’s a legend you know’ over and over again.
It simply lacks impact. To us, Omega is just some bloke in a big mask (and whilst I’m there – the mask is lovely… but it’s so oversized that it actually makes the not exactly tiny Stephen Thorne look oddly squat and short, therefore ordinary). He just wanders around all the time being grumpy and telling us he’s going to have his revenge, but he never really does anything (gloriously, he seems to expect the Doctor to be afraid of him – why? He’s not killed anyone or anything. Walk into a room and be confronted with a sequined Darth Vader, fear’s not going to be the first thing that comes to mind, now is it?)
There’s just not very much threat. In a similar way to Tyler’s blatant plot criticism last time, this week we get a fairly damning statement from Benton – when the other characters break free of the cell, he turns to Jo and says ‘we can’t let them have all the fun’. It comes back to fun again. This is an action adventure series. We’re the one’s that should be having fun. If your characters are having fun, then there’s nothing at stake. It just means no one really does anything. They get told the plot, get locked up, escape. Only the Brigadier gets anything interesting to do – whilst it’s true enough to suggest that his character has been dumbed down by this point, his attempts at an almost single handed rescue of everyone else is brilliant, if ultimately a pointless diversion.
There’s too much wit and swagger in the script for this to be actually painful to watch. All the amusing banter is present and correct… but you do wish it had a stronger plot to hang off.
Dorney
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#711 20 May 2008, 11:23 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 4:
It’s slightly damning how easy it is to forget this story. I watched episode four yesterday morning, got distracted by various things since, so have only got the chance to write it up now. And it’s hard to remember the first thing about it. It’s like a Chinese meal. Very enjoyable on the surface, but not really all that satisfying in the long run.
It’s not a major shock. Upon starting the episode I realised a bit I’d forgotten to mention last episode – the utterly atrocious cliffhanger. But that’s the beauty of the cliffhanger isn’t it? You can talk about it the next episode as well, and no one will know you forgot it the last time.
I remember vividly watching The Three Doctors as a young boy during the Five Faces of Doctor Who season, and recalling the cliffhanger as Omega removing his helmet. And I still don’t get why it isn’t. That’s the perfect spot – a striking image that also works as an act break, signalling a shift in Omega’s purpose.
But no, they decide to throw in a random fantasy sequence, the Doctor fighting the dark side of Omegas mind (whatever the hell that means – I mean it’s not like his general mental state is sweetness and light), because the iconic helmeted one is a bit grumpy with him. This despite him talking about how he needs the Doctor. And this whilst also ignoring the second Doctor (I mean, what’s he doing during the entire fight?). With bizarre repetition of the images and sound cues within moments (which almost makes the DVD mastering error an episode earlier look like part of the official edit). And then it’s completely dismissed in about an instant (always a good sign to tell whether a cliffhanger’s good or not, look at it and the resolution – does it change the plot? Does it have repercussions? Could you cut it completely without affecting the overall story? If the first two are answered no, and the third yes, congratulations – you’ve a rotten cliffhanger).
In the next few minutes, Omega explains his scheme, which is logical enough, though you can’t help wondering why he hung around and waited so long. Especially when the moment he imparts it, the Doctor’s pretty much instantly realise that he can’t follow it through and he starts to go barking. Yes, once again, we’re dealing with a story where people talk a lot about what they’re going to do, but never actually do it.
And it’s a shame, because the moment Omega sees he lives on only as a force of will (probably the most striking concept the story has in its armoury) is probably the point where it kicks back in. It really should be the cliffhanger for the previous episode. It raises the stakes, changes the direction. As it is, part three is another exercise in wasting time, and so is the first few minutes of this episode. When the twist occurs, suddenly we’re back in exciting territory. The last ten minutes or so are suddenly about something, there’s an actual threat as opposed to just the vague possibility of one in the distance. Something we understand is at stake. This could easily sustain a full episode, and also present the opportunity for a proper tragic feel (imagine if Omega was a little saner before the realisation, and that’s what truly tips him into evil? The whole ‘dark side of my mind’ thing just paints him as a panto baddy)
It’s a real shame. Because you do get the sense that everyone’s come up with a lot of ideas, great dialogue and scenes – they’ve just not really got a story to hang them off. Look at the characters, for example. What exactly are Tyler and Ollis for? At best plot devices in the first episode, they don’t seem to do anything at any point beyond that, only there because the script hasn’t figured out a way of removing them. They just wander around with the regulars. And for that matter, what do the regulars do? Yates is inexplicably absent throughout, Benton just hangs around with everyone else as much as Tyler and Ollis, and the Brigadier – despite getting all the best character moments, such as his ever so slightly emotional goodbye salute to the Doctors – doesn’t fare much better, his only activity being organising a raid that never actually takes place.
But even then… I can’t really bring myself to dislike it. It comes back to the whole ‘fun’ thing. There’s always something entertaining happening, even if it’s ultimately a waste of time, and the Doctor banter sequences are on a completely different level to anything we’ve seen in a good few seasons. The plot’s rotten, but… does it always have to be about the plot?
I think there’s this story had the potential to be a classic. If they’d worked just as hard on the story as they do on the set pieces and fun bits. If there wasn’t a sense that those bits were so enjoyable that they didn’t realise they were carrying the entire thing. As it is, it’s good and entertaining… but you do have to focus on the good stuff. Fortunately, there’s a reasonable amount of it.
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 1:
Fun. How important is it? During my time with Cronos, I received an email from my old chum Alex Wilcock (a name some of you may remember as a regular contributor to DWM’s Time Team). He said that the last two stories were the only ones he and his partner wildly disagreed on. Alex thought the Mutants a good script let down by its execution, and the Time Monster awful – whereas the opposing view was that the former was tedious and the latter fun.
It’s hard not to see the point. You see, for all the intelligence of its script, the Mutants isn’t especially entertaining. And vacuous as the Time Monster may be, it’s got an awful lot of enjoyable set pieces and camp villainy. If you’re in the mood to switch your brain off, and settle down with some escapist entertainment, you’re never going to pick the former over the latter. So I refer you back to the question I started with. How important is ‘fun’?
Watching The Three Doctors, I can’t help but feel this is going to be a question that comes up again. As it stands this episode is enormous fun. There’s not much else to it than that, though, not so far anyway. But in some ways that’s a clear difference from The Time Monster. Most of the fun in the first four episodes of that story is incidental, or really spread out. As I said above, you have to switch your brain off. Whereas this story seems to have higher standards for its fun. Ambitious fun. It wants to be the most fun it can be, not the barest minimum. This is the people making the show having fun, rather than just hoping they can get away with it.
So why is it more fun than its predecessor, or at least more successful fun? Well, it’s relentlessly fast paced for one. Within the first ten minutes or so we’ve established an, admittedly, somewhat nebulous threat and are going into full grown battle mode. This is an obvious necessity of the premise, as we can’t really spend too much time establishing the threat when we need the other Doctor’s in before the episode ends. But necessity leads to great things in this case. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not usually a fan of speed for the sake of speed. But this is perfectly paced. It’s fast, but relatively simplistic (the entire plot of the first fifteen minutes or so is ‘blob attacks’) so the speed doesn’t leave it feeling rushed. OK, it does cause a couple of problems on a plot level, with the Doctor managing to leap to the right conclusion at the speed of light with very little actual evidence, and very weak justifications for the blob attacking Ollis and Tyler. But it’s all pitched with such joie de vivre that you get swept up. The whole thing is written and performed with bravado and confidence so you don’t care about minor plot problems. Within minutes you’re pitched into surprisingly high gear action – and part of the fun is that you still don’t have any real idea what’s going on.
And then of course, Patrick bloody Troughton turns up, and it kicks into high gear. The scenes between the two Doctors are the blatant highlights of the episode, full of wit and vigour. The idea of them not really getting on is probably the obvious choice, but that doesn’t make it any less the correct one (where’s the fun in them getting on all the time, eh?). It’s the perfect dynamic, and the two actors are really up to the task, the sci-fi equivalent of the odd couple. There’s not really much to add to that, as discussion of those scenes is almost redundant. They’re gloriously enjoyable, two great characters and actors (even entertainers) playing off each other brilliantly. What’s not to love?
When it comes down to it, The Three Doctors seems to me to be more fun than it’s predecessor because there’s more to fun than just set pieces. That’s the difference between dumb fun and fun. It needs heart, and joy, and the Three Doctors has that in spades. There’s the real sense that everyone involved is having a ball. Whereas the last story doesn’t have that same commitment to the material (at least until the final two episodes). No-one’s having fun, they just seem desperate to get through it.
So I suppose what it comes down to is that the most important isn’t whether something is fun or not. But that fun has to be done well. Unexciting drama is almost fine. Whereas there’s nothing as bad as dull fun.
Dorney
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#706 11 May 2008, 12:32 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: Yesterday 4:41 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors starts well but I must admit I find it a bit of a slog, especially the last two episodes. Plus watching Billy clearly struggling with the script is a depressing experience which, for me, sucks a lot of the fun out of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#707 15 May 2008, 4:29 am
Dacar92
Time Lord
Chicago
Joined November 5, 2006
Last On: Yesterday 7:37 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
The Three Doctors starts well but I must admit I find it a bit of a slog, especially the last two episodes. Plus watching Billy clearly struggling with the script is a depressing experience which, for me, sucks a lot of the fun out of it.
Hartnell never looked so old as he did in the 3 docs, for obvious reasons. So, where did the TL's take him out of time and space? Sometime during the 4th episode of Tenth Planet?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's the point of being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes?
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#708 15 May 2008, 10:38 am
Phil W
one percent evil
Wellington
Joined June 3, 2006
Last On: 19 Jul 2009 2:23 am
Posts Here: 811
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surely it is just the effect of him being in proximity (however tenuously) to two of his subsequent selves [ref TimeCrash]?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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#709 16 May 2008, 2:09 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
Posts Here: 4,645
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 2:
After the relentless pace of the opener, it’s time to calm down a touch.
As I mentioned last time, the speed of the first episode was down to the amount of plot required before they could reach the vital money moments of the episode (the 1st and 2nd Doctors turning up), that had to appear before the cliffhanger. This episode slightly pays the price as it’s clear that it’s marking time slightly.
This is most clear in the way that the 2nd Doctor doesn’t really achieve anything throughout the episode, and at the climax basically does what the 3rd did at the end of the last one. This wouldn’t be a major problem if it wasn’t for the fact that the third Doctor doesn’t really do much in this episode either – after the lump of anti-matter has gone out of it’s way to capture him and transport him through a black hole, he’s left to just wander around for a bit until he gets taken to a citadel, where he once again doesn’t meet anyone or do anything.
This could all be terribly tedious, but once again it’s lifted by the sparkling script. The sequences of Doctor two interacting with Benton and the Brigadier are enjoyable and amusing – ok, so the Brigadier pretty much has to turn into a moron, and act as an all purpose comedy fool, but it is something rather big he’s come across so it’s at least vaguely plausible, and it does at least manage to be funny.
Equally, there’s a engagingly witty sense of the surreal about the episode. This manifests itself in subtle ways – the oddball design of the palace, complete with the bizarre, unworldly, plinky-plonk soundtrack (innocently childlike, yet alien and strange) But it’s also obviously there in the Doctor and Jo wandering about a quarry, absolutely as typical an ‘alien’ environment as the series has and yet constantly bumping into water coolers and worktops. It’s a gorgeous juxtaposition of the quirky and the mundane. . The best example of this is their discovery of Doctor Tyler, idly standing in the middle of nowhere muttering through the mathematics of his situation in a perfect parody of the man so dull and science obsessed he’s too busy looking at the minutiae and misses the biggest and most important fact of all (he’s not on Earth).
OK, there’s only so long the episode can sustain itself on charm alone, and sure enough it does eventually have to resort to the blatant padding of Tyler’s escape attempt to fill in the time (though in many ways you do have to admire the gall of the story to have his first words when he rejoins the Doctor and Jo as: ‘Well, that was a waste of time’). But even then, the general sense of style carries the show through so you can’t help but be charmed.
There’s not much else to add. Bit of a giggle, really. That's all.
Dorney
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#710 18 May 2008, 4:55 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 3:
OK, whilst I’m still enjoying this… it’d be nice if there was a bit more to the plot, wouldn’t there?
After a good couple of episodes messing around, we finally meet the proper villain of the story, and he’s the king of exposition, and that’s sort of a problem.
We’re once more dealing with the famous writing maxim ‘don’t tell, show’. Now, meeting a famous character out of legend is an exciting and intriguing prospect – unfortunately it’s less so when your audience have no idea whatsoever who this bloke is. Because then you’ve got to spend a good few minutes telling the audience who he is, why he’s important and going ‘he’s a legend you know’ over and over again.
It simply lacks impact. To us, Omega is just some bloke in a big mask (and whilst I’m there – the mask is lovely… but it’s so oversized that it actually makes the not exactly tiny Stephen Thorne look oddly squat and short, therefore ordinary). He just wanders around all the time being grumpy and telling us he’s going to have his revenge, but he never really does anything (gloriously, he seems to expect the Doctor to be afraid of him – why? He’s not killed anyone or anything. Walk into a room and be confronted with a sequined Darth Vader, fear’s not going to be the first thing that comes to mind, now is it?)
There’s just not very much threat. In a similar way to Tyler’s blatant plot criticism last time, this week we get a fairly damning statement from Benton – when the other characters break free of the cell, he turns to Jo and says ‘we can’t let them have all the fun’. It comes back to fun again. This is an action adventure series. We’re the one’s that should be having fun. If your characters are having fun, then there’s nothing at stake. It just means no one really does anything. They get told the plot, get locked up, escape. Only the Brigadier gets anything interesting to do – whilst it’s true enough to suggest that his character has been dumbed down by this point, his attempts at an almost single handed rescue of everyone else is brilliant, if ultimately a pointless diversion.
There’s too much wit and swagger in the script for this to be actually painful to watch. All the amusing banter is present and correct… but you do wish it had a stronger plot to hang off.
Dorney
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#711 20 May 2008, 11:23 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Three Doctors 4:
It’s slightly damning how easy it is to forget this story. I watched episode four yesterday morning, got distracted by various things since, so have only got the chance to write it up now. And it’s hard to remember the first thing about it. It’s like a Chinese meal. Very enjoyable on the surface, but not really all that satisfying in the long run.
It’s not a major shock. Upon starting the episode I realised a bit I’d forgotten to mention last episode – the utterly atrocious cliffhanger. But that’s the beauty of the cliffhanger isn’t it? You can talk about it the next episode as well, and no one will know you forgot it the last time.
I remember vividly watching The Three Doctors as a young boy during the Five Faces of Doctor Who season, and recalling the cliffhanger as Omega removing his helmet. And I still don’t get why it isn’t. That’s the perfect spot – a striking image that also works as an act break, signalling a shift in Omega’s purpose.
But no, they decide to throw in a random fantasy sequence, the Doctor fighting the dark side of Omegas mind (whatever the hell that means – I mean it’s not like his general mental state is sweetness and light), because the iconic helmeted one is a bit grumpy with him. This despite him talking about how he needs the Doctor. And this whilst also ignoring the second Doctor (I mean, what’s he doing during the entire fight?). With bizarre repetition of the images and sound cues within moments (which almost makes the DVD mastering error an episode earlier look like part of the official edit). And then it’s completely dismissed in about an instant (always a good sign to tell whether a cliffhanger’s good or not, look at it and the resolution – does it change the plot? Does it have repercussions? Could you cut it completely without affecting the overall story? If the first two are answered no, and the third yes, congratulations – you’ve a rotten cliffhanger).
In the next few minutes, Omega explains his scheme, which is logical enough, though you can’t help wondering why he hung around and waited so long. Especially when the moment he imparts it, the Doctor’s pretty much instantly realise that he can’t follow it through and he starts to go barking. Yes, once again, we’re dealing with a story where people talk a lot about what they’re going to do, but never actually do it.
And it’s a shame, because the moment Omega sees he lives on only as a force of will (probably the most striking concept the story has in its armoury) is probably the point where it kicks back in. It really should be the cliffhanger for the previous episode. It raises the stakes, changes the direction. As it is, part three is another exercise in wasting time, and so is the first few minutes of this episode. When the twist occurs, suddenly we’re back in exciting territory. The last ten minutes or so are suddenly about something, there’s an actual threat as opposed to just the vague possibility of one in the distance. Something we understand is at stake. This could easily sustain a full episode, and also present the opportunity for a proper tragic feel (imagine if Omega was a little saner before the realisation, and that’s what truly tips him into evil? The whole ‘dark side of my mind’ thing just paints him as a panto baddy)
It’s a real shame. Because you do get the sense that everyone’s come up with a lot of ideas, great dialogue and scenes – they’ve just not really got a story to hang them off. Look at the characters, for example. What exactly are Tyler and Ollis for? At best plot devices in the first episode, they don’t seem to do anything at any point beyond that, only there because the script hasn’t figured out a way of removing them. They just wander around with the regulars. And for that matter, what do the regulars do? Yates is inexplicably absent throughout, Benton just hangs around with everyone else as much as Tyler and Ollis, and the Brigadier – despite getting all the best character moments, such as his ever so slightly emotional goodbye salute to the Doctors – doesn’t fare much better, his only activity being organising a raid that never actually takes place.
But even then… I can’t really bring myself to dislike it. It comes back to the whole ‘fun’ thing. There’s always something entertaining happening, even if it’s ultimately a waste of time, and the Doctor banter sequences are on a completely different level to anything we’ve seen in a good few seasons. The plot’s rotten, but… does it always have to be about the plot?
I think there’s this story had the potential to be a classic. If they’d worked just as hard on the story as they do on the set pieces and fun bits. If there wasn’t a sense that those bits were so enjoyable that they didn’t realise they were carrying the entire thing. As it is, it’s good and entertaining… but you do have to focus on the good stuff. Fortunately, there’s a reasonable amount of it.
The Time Monster
27 Apr 2008, 11:06 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 1:
I dunno. This is a toughy.
You see, it’s not actually ‘bad’ yet. There’s some nice enough work at building tension, the performances are generally fine, but… it just seems to me that beyond the surface there’s not much going on.
Firstly, the whole episode is about something that’s going to happen, and as a result we have that rare thing – a first episode that’s heavily padded. Witness the Master being pointlessly found out by the head of the institute and then just hypnotising him again. You see, it wouldn’t be a problem if there was some sort of threat attached – it’s basically the same opening as the Daemons, let’s be honest – but for the most part there’s no reason to be worried. OK, the Master’s up to something, but that isn’t that menacing as of itself, especially when the machine he builds seems to work fine and dandy half way through the episode (‘yes, we must stop the Master switching on this device that doesn’t seem to do anything threatening’ is hardly a strong driving motor for a show). And throwing in a portentous dream is just a cop out. There’s just no tension.
Equally, whilst we’re on the dream, that does rather emphasise the further problem with starting up before the plot really starts – you have to find a way to get the Doctor involved when there’s nothing for him to investigate. And this episode takes the laziest way imaginable, with the Doctor having a precognitive dream out of precisely nowhere. It’s deeply annoying and screams plot device. And even then, they still foist a coincidence on the plot, with the UNIT mob just happening to be going off to visit the Master’s next project anyway. Though to be fair, this is sort of the problem of having a regular arch enemy anyway, as it’s far easier for the Doctor to stumble into something. It requires coincidence for him to stumble into the work of someone he already knows. It’s even harder when you don’t have the luxury of time and space travel, as bumping into the Master requires him to behave like a bit of an idiot.
There’s also one other problem, though it comes from a positive. After far too long we have the UNIT mob back again, especially worthwhile for Nicholas Courtney being charming… but they really have turned into comedy soldiers, haven’t they? And that’s the problem – there’s a degree to which this episode is scripted like a bad 70s sitcom. A really bad one. Consider the sequence of the Brig trying to figure out who to take with him to TOMTITT, as all the regulars count themselves out. ‘Who am I going to take’ wonders the Brig – and at that precise moment, in walks Benton all ready to go on leave. It feels like a joke, it has the structure of a joke – it just isn’t one. In deed, that’s the tone all the way through. Lots of times people make what appear to be attempts at jokes, none of which quite work – most noticeably the Brigs nice enough line about the Doctor consulting the entrails of a goat, which is suddenly made to look awful by the inexplicable decision to make Jo hoot like a demented harpy at it (not only is it a massively disproportionate response, it isn’t helped by the fact that no one else at all finds it funny).
This extends to the guest cast, with Stuart and Ruth being weirdly characterised – her as an annoyingly one note women’s lib cliché (which ironically manages to come over as far more sexist – cos that’s all feminism is about, complaining every time a man says something patronising) and him as a prat (it’s worth pointing out that Ian Collier’s performance is at least fairly likeable, which disguises this a touch, but it still beggars belief that this man is actually a professional scientist). Even the Master loses it – his ‘don’t worry your pretty little head’ line is deeply out of character, and only makes sense when you realise he’s only saying it as a setup for Ruth’s sexism stuff.
The only real saving grace here is that, by and large, the director doesn’t seem to notice that the script is as silly as it is, and is treating it with the same seriousness as the previous stories this season. And to be fair to the story as a whole, there are nice moments - the dream is good, the absorption of inertia is fun, the falling window cleaner too, even if it does seem odd that he finds himself as fascinated as he is by some scientists not doing very much in a room. The Master’s lightning quick response to the arrival of UNIT is plausible and amusingly ironic (lifelong pacifist indeed) and I do find the comedy accent amusing (if inconsistent).
But ultimately, nothing’s really happened at the end. It’s all competent enough, but really it’s all about moving the various pieces into position in order that the story itself can start, so it’s hard to judge yet.
Dorney
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#695 28 Apr 2008, 12:42 am
The Secretive Bus
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Edinburgh
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Re: Day by Day
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Ah, Stewart and Ruth. Possibly the most irritating guest characters in a Doctor Who story, certainly up till this point. Is it this episode that has the "We've done it! We've done it! We've done it!" dance complete with comedy music? One of the most dire moments of Who ever, surely?
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#696 28 Apr 2008, 10:04 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
Ah, Stewart and Ruth. Possibly the most irritating guest characters in a Doctor Who story, certainly up till this point. Is it this episode that has the "We've done it! We've done it! We've done it!" dance complete with comedy music? One of the most dire moments of Who ever, surely?
Absolutely.
Up until that point, I'd almost liked Stewart (as I say, Collier's putting in a performance that's a heck of a lot more charming than the character as scripted), but that sequence is just so dumb and forced it immediately made me think 'oh, he's crap'. Scientist as naughty schoolboy. Please.
Dorney
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#697 28 Apr 2008, 6:38 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 2:
Yes, it’s the second episode of the Time Monster – gasp in amazement as the villain spends the entire episode sat in an office checking through his maths homework. Applaud as the Doctor destroys all mystery by explaining the entire plot within twenty seconds of arriving on the scene. Be amazed that the old age make up effects in the last season of Who aren’t significantly better than these made over thirty years previously…
I mean, honestly. Did anything actually happen in that episode?
Once again, a reasonable technical sheen tries its best to disguise the shortcomings of the story. But, it’s just dull. After a first episode that’s tries to be about the Doctor racing to prevent a catastrophe, and fails, it’s somewhat underwhelming that pretty much nothing happens when the Master switches on his machine. In deed, if anything, it makes the Master’s plan look more ludicrous. He spends ages building this machine, and then decides to test it in a needlessly high profile manner (why not run a test on it – why does he need to summon Kronos in front of the funding body). As a result, he just draws attention to his plans before he can actually implement them. It’s like he wants to make it harder for himself. It’s one of those stories where people behave in an odd way, because to do otherwise would screw the story up.
We’re also feeling the lack of threads. Because the Master wants to summon up an all powerful evil being (and he can’t) there’s really not much else the story can do without extra elements to the plot. Everyone’s on the scene, every one knows what’s going on… where can we go? And I’m sorry, but the Doctor’s massive info dump of exposition ten minutes in is one of the sloppiest bits of writing we’ve seen. OK, it’s an attempt to add some threat, but without some physical evidence of what the hell a Chronovore is, it’s just words, and words that, crucially, destroy a lot of the mystery that might keep us watching. Compare with the careful building up and resolving of the various questions in the Mutants. Here we know exactly what the Master’s planning to do. But because we know that, the only real tension left is in whether he can do it or not – and that in itself isn’t interesting. Because that’s just a cat and mouse game of whether the Master can get back into a room and switch a machine on, which is hardly the most engaging plotline. They’ve basically written themselves into a corner, and added a bucket of telling not showing. Stop the Master doing something not terribly interesting otherwise a Gobbledegook monster will come along and destroy us. Yes, that’s a hook, isn’t it?
It’s not all bad though. There are some nice bits – the Doctor’s slow mo run to save the day, the Brig’s dialogue – and particularly the Benton/Master scene which is a properly nice moment for the former. He get’s to show resourcefulness, but the manner in which the Master outwits him, partially down to his own slight sense of victory leaving him to drop his guard is glorious (‘No, Sgt. Benton, that is the oldest trick in the book’ is probably my favourite bit in the story so far!), and is so nicely done that you actually miss the fact that the whole sequence is blatant padding.
But when push comes to the shove, there’s just nothing in here that’s particularly interesting or gripping.
Dorney
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#698 29 Apr 2008, 5:12 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 3:
This story is just a lot of sound and fury, isn’t it? Nothing’s going on.
For the first two episodes we’ve had the Master followed around by the University bloke as standard underling to talk to – and the story’s really confused about how he interacts with the Master, frankly – within a few minutes of this episode starting, he’s killed off… and replaced by an Atlantean standard underling to talk to. Neither of them do anything, and the death of one for replacement by the other is a distraction – an illusion of progress and change… whilst nothing happens. Slowly. It’s symptomatic of the entire story.
We’re half way through, and there’s really no plot. The story, what it amounts to, is the Master trying a series of increasingly successful attempts to capture a time monster (hence the title) whilst the Doctor wanders off and distracts himself and let’s the Master get on with it. There’s a sequence half way through when they retreat to a cottage on the grounds, and the Doctor says all they can do is wait and orders up tea and cake. Really? Is that the best this story can do? The Master’s taking over the world, and you just wander off saying ‘well, we can’t do anything yet, how about a cuppa.’ The Doctor doesn’t wait. He shouldn’t wait. And yet this entire episode is about filling in time until the Doctor can do something.
And why can’t the Doctor do anything? Because it’s all too small, that’s why. The plot is hinged on one simple device – the Master summons a monster with a machine. That’s it. The moment the Doctor’s on the scene, it should be a piece of piss for him to defeat that. So they’ve got to invent way to distract him or stop him from actually doing anything – be it dangerous time eddies that people can’t get through, or, more prosaically, just not doing anything about it when he has the chance (‘yes, the Master wants to use this machine to take over the world – tell you what, let’s just wander off and do something fundamentally less important for the moment, shall we? Give him a chance to pop by.’).
The story needs more threads. It’s odd, but for a story so epic in scope (with a neat sci-fi concept and Atlantis jostling for position) it feels so small. There’s only about two sets, and two groups of people (all of the goodies just hang around together – that’s six people, and as a result no-one gets to do anything worthwhile or memorable on any level). And it has to work its damnedest to keep them apart (because that would switch off the story) but unless they meet there’s nothing much that can happen. It’s all exemplified by the Doctor’s contraption. The Doctor building up a jammer from all manner of household rubbish is such a delightful (and quintessentially Who-ish idea) that it’s easy to miss the fact that it’s a pointless distraction and waste of time. The moment it operates, the Master over-rides it in about three seconds.
And then, after having half the episode be about the Doctor not quite doing anything yet, the Master joins in! The Master, in contrast, has almost looked like he’s doing something in this episode (he hasn’t, he’s just got a little bit closer to actually pulling off what he’s been trying to do for – or more accurately, he’s got a little bit less unsuccessful this time). And then, just when he can trot off to Atlantis to sort it all out, he decides to hang around and try to destroy the TARDIS (which he must know is rather pointless).
Good things in this episode… Well, the Brig gets all the nice lines (same as usual). And the idea of the Master plucking random elements of the past to attack the UNIT convoy is quite fun (although, much like the Doctor’s device, fairly pointless sideshow distractions). Beyond that, still dull.
Dorney
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#699 30 Apr 2008, 12:31 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Edinburgh
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Re: Day by Day
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The only amusing thing I can remember about the first half of the story is the cliffhanger to part 2. The Atlantean chappy appears (not exactly a cracking cliffhanger in itself) and just watch the university guy's reaction. He jerks his entire body round with his arms held out as if holding an invisible teatray and with the most comically aghast face since the monkey bastard from The Wheel In Space.
Other than that, I can't remember a decent reason for watching this. It's just a series of silly performances, bad dialogue and upskirt shots (male and female). Which I'm sure, all things considered, is targeted at a niche audience somewhere.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#700 30 Apr 2008, 6:37 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 4:
There’s something almost heroic about the determination of this story to get worse every single episode. ‘Hey, you thought last week was boring? Wait til you get a load of this!’
After an episode that included lots of detail to disguise the fact that there isn’t actually a story going on, this one is fairly open about it. It doesn’t even try to pretend there’s anything going on. The major action of the episode is the Doctor trying to give the Master a bit of a talking to, and the Master not listening to him. That’s as dramatic as it gets. I’m not exaggerating.
You see, you really do get the sense that they’ve had a lot of cool ideas for set-pieces here… they’ve just forgotten that they need a plot to back it up. Look at the cliffhanger, and it’s resolution. The Master’s all ready to hop off to Atlantis, but then discovers that the Doctor’s TARDIS is heading their way. Ah, says he, I don’t want any one to follow me, so he sends various historical people to attack the UNIT convoy. All well and good. Until the resolution, where his pointless Atlantean chum (only purpose – someone for him to explain the plot to, that’s all the character does) asks ‘so have you destroyed it then’, and the Master says ‘no, it’s indestructible’. So the deeply tenuous justification for the Master deciding to put a temporary halt to his plans in order to provide a cliffhanger (oh and more time for the Doctor to catch up) is just changed overnight. The Master then says that people can be destroyed, but what’s the point of that? He’s about to destroy the world, why worry about getting a few soldiers who can’t possibly stop him? Oh, and whilst we’re on the cliffhanger, it’s disappointing that the reprise drops the nicest bit of it. The previous episode ends with the Brigadier urgently calling for Yates on the radio, and in gorgeous touch that’s underplayed to the degree of being easy to miss, he stops calling for ‘Yates’, and starts calling to ‘Mike’. A lovely genuine human moment. Whereas in this episode, this bit is dropped, and replaced to a shot of Benton trying to get in touch back at the cottage. Where his immediate response on not hearing anything is saying ‘I think they’ve copped it’ in a tone of mild concern (and then to add insult to injury, the scene is rendered utterly pointless when the Brig phones him up a minute or so later and, in the same nondescript tone, Benton replies ‘oh good. We thought you’d copped it’. We know. You said it about thirty seconds ago. Grief).
And it just gets worse. The Master then proceeds to waste as much time as possible playing around with a few control buttons (as if he hasn’t had enough time to do whatever he needs to in the two whole episodes he hasn’t moved from the lab in) in order to give the Doctor a chance to catch him – oh and for the unfunny comedy troop of Benton, Ruth and Stewart to try a raid based on little more than suicidal idiocy. I love the way that upon deciding to launch a planless attack on the Master, Stewart picks up a spanner, the implication being that the ‘lovable’ foolish scientist’s only plan to stop the Master, who let’s remember hasn’t done anything evil in front of him, is to smash his head in. Family fun, eh? And even if it wasn’t, these three decide to attack a man who has a machine that controls time with one gun and a spanner? No, there are four spanners here by my count. And once again, it’s pointless – as the Master gets away in a really badly done move within about twenty seconds. Actually, what’s most depressing about this is that a mere two episodes after the script credits Benton with a degree of resourcefulness and intelligence, the vacuous desperation of the script requires him to become a cretin again - ignoring everything he’s been told by a man he trusts to go along with the witless bravado of a self-righteous lunatic. All for the sake of filling in a bit of time (oh, and before I forget – Collier’s lost it by this point. The character’s so badly, clunkily written, that he’s lost all the charm I initially talked about – it’s all so self-consciously ‘funny’ that you just want to smack him).
Next, we have the Doctor’s ship landing inside the Masters (and vice versa). The Russian doll TARDIS thing is a corker of a concept… but once again, it’s not attached to anything in the plot. It’s simply there as a device to stop anything from actually happening. (And even then, we once more have the Doctor announcing his entire plan as being ‘waiting’ - if the hero can't be arsed to do something, why the hell are we watching?)
Likewise, the frozen UNIT and baby Benton are nice enough ideas – but all they’re actually doing is filling in time and giving the impression that something’s actually going on. And fair enough, something is going on… but it’s progressing a, by this point, irrelevant sub-plot that has no need to be there at all.
And then, as I said above, we have the entire plot stalling whilst the Doctor tries to give the Master a lecture. The Doctor’s so desperate to do this that he actually steps out of the TARDIS to face possible destruction. It beggars belief. This is ten minutes of an adventure show featuring the good guy trying to talk the villain out of doing something – such a pompous, school teacher-y way of behaving that, combined with the natural pomposity of the Pertwee Doctor, we actually root for the Master, a fact not helped by the fact that we initially view the sequence through his eyes. When he says ‘I could throw you out into the vortex’ your first thought is ‘well go on then’.
Nothing happens. At all. We’ve had four episodes now, four episodes which consist of nothing more the Master trying over and over again to do the thing he did at the end of part one and get it right, and the Doctor hanging around at the sidelines going ‘well, I can’t really do anything.’
Tedium, thy name is ‘The Time Monster’.
Dorney
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#701 2 May 2008, 8:23 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 5:
There’s only one major thing wrong with the fifth episode of The Time Monster. And that’s the fact that it’s the fifth episode.
After two episodes that were basically a masterpiece of procrastination, we finally reach Atlantis – and suddenly the story gets good. Which does rather beg the question of why it’s taken so long to go there.
OK, so we’ve had a few brief visits there in episodes two and three. But that’s not what I mean. This is basically the moment that the actual story starts. Everything suddenly seems so much better and more interesting. There’s something going on, as opposed to avoiding something going on. Suddenly the heroes and villains don’t just have to wander around a computer with a furrowed brow. Honestly, why does it take until episode five before we come here? Ancient Greece and a Minotaur versus a woman’s libber and a prat hanging round a university looking at dials. There’s no contest, surely?
The episode isn’t entirely perfect – the resolution to the fairly definite and eerie cliffhanger is depressingly feeble (Jo simpy presses a handy ‘in event of cliffhanger’ button on the console), Hippias is one of the strangest performances in the series and the Master’s mate remains utterly irrelevant (although, bizarrely, recognised by the Doctor despite never having actually met him). But in comparison to the previous couple of episodes it’s dazzling.
There actually seems to be the making of a plot, in the most literal sense. Rather than a series of remote control attempts to fool each others plans, tinkering, maths and waiting, both the Master and the Doctor are actually doing something. The Master in particular has a ball, all manipulative and Machiavellian, finding who to side with, lying, hypnotising, trying to get what he wants. Actively trying. His scene with Galleia is beautifully plotted. Which leads me on to my next point. There are actual characters not one note ciphers. Galleia, for example, is genuinely interesting and multi layered – far from being anything as simple and straightforward as just an evil cheating queen, she’s complicated (witness her telling the Master that she wants nothing to happen to her husband, and Hippias’ genuinely sad lament for the loss of the girl she was). Likewise, everybody in Atlantis just seems to be so much better written, so much more real. Dalios is witty and wise, and genuinely likeable. Even Susan Penhaligon’s maid is given more scope. The dialogue sparkles, full of lovely jokes and wit (‘what did Poseidon have for breakfast’ Dalios asks the Master, before answering for him ‘fish, I suppose).
All of which is all well and good and entertaining, but it does lead to one fairly obvious point. Why haven’t they bothered doing this before now? If you can create good characters, write funny dialogue, and have interesting plots… why have you made us waste our time for four episodes? Why make us put up with a plotless runaround filled with crass caricatures? It seems obvious to me that this is the bit of the story that inspired the whole thing. They seem to have saved up their best writing for this section, and that could explain the lacklustre feel of the earlier stuff (it must be dispiriting wasting time before you get to the fun bit). So why structure it that way? One of the writers was in charge of the series, so why? Why?
Dorney
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#702 2 May 2008, 8:31 pm
Liberty Hall
Time Lord
GB With Your Missus
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Re: Day by Day
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...awww, I like this story. I like the relationship between Benton and Stewart. I like to think maybe, after Benton got his nappy off, they met up for a few jars & a game of darts - maybe they even went on a "Carry-On" style caravan holiday to the south coast to try (and fail) to "pull" some "birds".
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"This is only supposed to be a Top Secret military organisation" mused the Brigadier with considerable sarcasm. Doctor Tyler was lost for words.
"Liberty Hall, Doctor Tyler, Liberty Hall.." The Brigadier turned and strode briskly away.
"Who does that @£$% think he's talking to?" thought Tyler to himself.
"!@£$ f@£5er! I ought to kick his f@£$ing head in..." Tyler turned back to the lab bench.
Doctor Who & The Three Doctors, Target Books
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#703 5 May 2008, 6:47 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 6:
If there’s ever a story I want to do a ‘Phantom Edit’ on, it’s this one. You see, it all comes together in such an epic and mythic way that you can almost forget how pants the first four episodes are. A good strong edit would remove the fluff and leave the strength of the story behind. As it is, there’s been far to much irrelevant action, too many disposable cliffhangers for this to be anything other than a low, low watermark.
Much the same as the last episode, this story’s finale is so entertaining that you wonder why it took so long to get here. Particularly because a lot of the detail in this segment is rushed – the route to getting hold of the crystal of Kronos should be harsh, difficult. As it is, it takes about two minutes to get past the world’s most rubbish guardian and straight at it. There’s potential here –a good episode’s worth of questing, all sort of danger and adventure… but the need to get to the end of the story as quickly as possible scuppers it. And that’s frustrating, because the story has been about a quest – the Master trying to release Kronos, but rather than a quest full of danger, it’s a quest that just seems to involve him doing a lot of sums. It should have been a series of battles with the Doctor desperately trying to prevent the Master passing the next obstacle. And as it is, the Doctor is at his most ineffectual in this story. Always hanging around the fringes, waiting. Only right at the end does he do something proper to defeat the villain – the Time Ram – up until then, he just sits around ‘waiting’ and ballsing things up. Heck, even then he doesn’t do anything – he needs Jo to make the decision.
That ending is massively right though –it tells us about the compassion of the Doctor and the bravery of Jo, and feels like a suitably epic gesture to bring the story to an end – considering the tale is, almost entirely, a game of cat and mouse between the Doctor and the Master rather than about an actual scheme, you couldn’t really end it any other way and you’ve just got to love a noble sacrifice ain’t ya? The sudden appearance of the god-like Kronos to save everyone doesn’t really feel like the cop-out it could seem. After all, we’ve already had an ending to the story, this is just shifting that ending so it can work as a series. Of course, this is the first spot where the script really goes poor in this episode, with the Master’s pleading so generic and out of character that even the mighty Delgado can’t do it convincingly. And it does go downhill from there somewhat, firstly with the Master’s pathetically easy escape (no matter what situation he’s trapped in this story, they can all be answered with a good shove, it would seem), and then the return to Cambridge for the Scooby-Doo ‘everybody laughing at not terribly good joke until the credits roll’ ending.
But I’m rushing ahead of myself. There are loads of incidental details I love, although not always for the best of reasons. I love the Doctor’s offhand dismissal of Hippias death (he says ‘he’s dead’ without going to check – last time I checked, being chucked through a window wasn’t necessarily fatal – and following his announcement I was half expecting Hippias to turn up in the background saying ‘actually, I’m all right’ whilst they ignored him and continued lamenting his demise…). It’s also hard not to mention the ‘dasiest daisy’ speech. There’s a degree to which it’s quite self consciously the ‘arty’ bit (you can almost hear Letts and Sloman’s saying to each other: ‘this is lovely, isn’t it? You’re great you are – they’ll be quoting this for years!’) and that almost takes the shine off it… but it’s such a nicely written moment that you’d have to be far more of a stone cold cynic than me to dislike it. Finally, the whole Atlantis subplot is wrapped up impeccably, with each character (bar the ever pointless Krassis) getting a beautiful tragic resolution – all destroyed by the Master’s treachery before the Chronovore brings the house down, even though he’s not directly responsible for any of the deaths, the man bringing death in his shadow. Which only makes the eventual return to wet caricatures in Cambridge all the more disappointing.
Overall then – a good enough idea ruined by not actually determining what the story is til too late in the day. A desperate series of plot stretching distractions almost, but not quite, redeemed by the two episodes somebody actually bothered to write.
Dorney
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#704 7 May 2008, 8:53 am
AlMiles
Stay warm
South Gloucs
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Re: Day by Day
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Good assessment of the Time Monster. I believe it is very well-received by children, especially the Doctor and Master spiting each other as well as nonsense like the minotaur bullfight, "Jojo Grant" etc, and it has some lovely design, including nearly-accurate Minoan-Crete stuff (though to be strictly accurate, the women should be topless).
It's a bit of a rewrite of "The Daemons" really (Master fails in attempts to resurrect and control ancient deity), before Sloman and Letts found their feet with "The Green Death".
As I watch DW mainly with an eye to the design and look of the thing (as a child, I rarely understood the entire plot - handy in the Hinchcliffe era, since so many of those were just knock-offs from cinema films anyway, so little was lost) it is the "moments" of imagination and strangeness and nice design that catch my eye (and imagination).
Laurence Miles latest blog entry* speaks elowuently of what Dr Who is really about - surprise (mystery) - and Time Monster provides plenty of surprises. Not least in its total change of pace, story and setting when it gets to Atlantis!
* http://beasthouse-lm2.blogspot.com/2...-surpriii.html
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 1:
I dunno. This is a toughy.
You see, it’s not actually ‘bad’ yet. There’s some nice enough work at building tension, the performances are generally fine, but… it just seems to me that beyond the surface there’s not much going on.
Firstly, the whole episode is about something that’s going to happen, and as a result we have that rare thing – a first episode that’s heavily padded. Witness the Master being pointlessly found out by the head of the institute and then just hypnotising him again. You see, it wouldn’t be a problem if there was some sort of threat attached – it’s basically the same opening as the Daemons, let’s be honest – but for the most part there’s no reason to be worried. OK, the Master’s up to something, but that isn’t that menacing as of itself, especially when the machine he builds seems to work fine and dandy half way through the episode (‘yes, we must stop the Master switching on this device that doesn’t seem to do anything threatening’ is hardly a strong driving motor for a show). And throwing in a portentous dream is just a cop out. There’s just no tension.
Equally, whilst we’re on the dream, that does rather emphasise the further problem with starting up before the plot really starts – you have to find a way to get the Doctor involved when there’s nothing for him to investigate. And this episode takes the laziest way imaginable, with the Doctor having a precognitive dream out of precisely nowhere. It’s deeply annoying and screams plot device. And even then, they still foist a coincidence on the plot, with the UNIT mob just happening to be going off to visit the Master’s next project anyway. Though to be fair, this is sort of the problem of having a regular arch enemy anyway, as it’s far easier for the Doctor to stumble into something. It requires coincidence for him to stumble into the work of someone he already knows. It’s even harder when you don’t have the luxury of time and space travel, as bumping into the Master requires him to behave like a bit of an idiot.
There’s also one other problem, though it comes from a positive. After far too long we have the UNIT mob back again, especially worthwhile for Nicholas Courtney being charming… but they really have turned into comedy soldiers, haven’t they? And that’s the problem – there’s a degree to which this episode is scripted like a bad 70s sitcom. A really bad one. Consider the sequence of the Brig trying to figure out who to take with him to TOMTITT, as all the regulars count themselves out. ‘Who am I going to take’ wonders the Brig – and at that precise moment, in walks Benton all ready to go on leave. It feels like a joke, it has the structure of a joke – it just isn’t one. In deed, that’s the tone all the way through. Lots of times people make what appear to be attempts at jokes, none of which quite work – most noticeably the Brigs nice enough line about the Doctor consulting the entrails of a goat, which is suddenly made to look awful by the inexplicable decision to make Jo hoot like a demented harpy at it (not only is it a massively disproportionate response, it isn’t helped by the fact that no one else at all finds it funny).
This extends to the guest cast, with Stuart and Ruth being weirdly characterised – her as an annoyingly one note women’s lib cliché (which ironically manages to come over as far more sexist – cos that’s all feminism is about, complaining every time a man says something patronising) and him as a prat (it’s worth pointing out that Ian Collier’s performance is at least fairly likeable, which disguises this a touch, but it still beggars belief that this man is actually a professional scientist). Even the Master loses it – his ‘don’t worry your pretty little head’ line is deeply out of character, and only makes sense when you realise he’s only saying it as a setup for Ruth’s sexism stuff.
The only real saving grace here is that, by and large, the director doesn’t seem to notice that the script is as silly as it is, and is treating it with the same seriousness as the previous stories this season. And to be fair to the story as a whole, there are nice moments - the dream is good, the absorption of inertia is fun, the falling window cleaner too, even if it does seem odd that he finds himself as fascinated as he is by some scientists not doing very much in a room. The Master’s lightning quick response to the arrival of UNIT is plausible and amusingly ironic (lifelong pacifist indeed) and I do find the comedy accent amusing (if inconsistent).
But ultimately, nothing’s really happened at the end. It’s all competent enough, but really it’s all about moving the various pieces into position in order that the story itself can start, so it’s hard to judge yet.
Dorney
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#695 28 Apr 2008, 12:42 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Ah, Stewart and Ruth. Possibly the most irritating guest characters in a Doctor Who story, certainly up till this point. Is it this episode that has the "We've done it! We've done it! We've done it!" dance complete with comedy music? One of the most dire moments of Who ever, surely?
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#696 28 Apr 2008, 10:04 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
Ah, Stewart and Ruth. Possibly the most irritating guest characters in a Doctor Who story, certainly up till this point. Is it this episode that has the "We've done it! We've done it! We've done it!" dance complete with comedy music? One of the most dire moments of Who ever, surely?
Absolutely.
Up until that point, I'd almost liked Stewart (as I say, Collier's putting in a performance that's a heck of a lot more charming than the character as scripted), but that sequence is just so dumb and forced it immediately made me think 'oh, he's crap'. Scientist as naughty schoolboy. Please.
Dorney
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#697 28 Apr 2008, 6:38 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 2:
Yes, it’s the second episode of the Time Monster – gasp in amazement as the villain spends the entire episode sat in an office checking through his maths homework. Applaud as the Doctor destroys all mystery by explaining the entire plot within twenty seconds of arriving on the scene. Be amazed that the old age make up effects in the last season of Who aren’t significantly better than these made over thirty years previously…
I mean, honestly. Did anything actually happen in that episode?
Once again, a reasonable technical sheen tries its best to disguise the shortcomings of the story. But, it’s just dull. After a first episode that’s tries to be about the Doctor racing to prevent a catastrophe, and fails, it’s somewhat underwhelming that pretty much nothing happens when the Master switches on his machine. In deed, if anything, it makes the Master’s plan look more ludicrous. He spends ages building this machine, and then decides to test it in a needlessly high profile manner (why not run a test on it – why does he need to summon Kronos in front of the funding body). As a result, he just draws attention to his plans before he can actually implement them. It’s like he wants to make it harder for himself. It’s one of those stories where people behave in an odd way, because to do otherwise would screw the story up.
We’re also feeling the lack of threads. Because the Master wants to summon up an all powerful evil being (and he can’t) there’s really not much else the story can do without extra elements to the plot. Everyone’s on the scene, every one knows what’s going on… where can we go? And I’m sorry, but the Doctor’s massive info dump of exposition ten minutes in is one of the sloppiest bits of writing we’ve seen. OK, it’s an attempt to add some threat, but without some physical evidence of what the hell a Chronovore is, it’s just words, and words that, crucially, destroy a lot of the mystery that might keep us watching. Compare with the careful building up and resolving of the various questions in the Mutants. Here we know exactly what the Master’s planning to do. But because we know that, the only real tension left is in whether he can do it or not – and that in itself isn’t interesting. Because that’s just a cat and mouse game of whether the Master can get back into a room and switch a machine on, which is hardly the most engaging plotline. They’ve basically written themselves into a corner, and added a bucket of telling not showing. Stop the Master doing something not terribly interesting otherwise a Gobbledegook monster will come along and destroy us. Yes, that’s a hook, isn’t it?
It’s not all bad though. There are some nice bits – the Doctor’s slow mo run to save the day, the Brig’s dialogue – and particularly the Benton/Master scene which is a properly nice moment for the former. He get’s to show resourcefulness, but the manner in which the Master outwits him, partially down to his own slight sense of victory leaving him to drop his guard is glorious (‘No, Sgt. Benton, that is the oldest trick in the book’ is probably my favourite bit in the story so far!), and is so nicely done that you actually miss the fact that the whole sequence is blatant padding.
But when push comes to the shove, there’s just nothing in here that’s particularly interesting or gripping.
Dorney
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#698 29 Apr 2008, 5:12 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 3:
This story is just a lot of sound and fury, isn’t it? Nothing’s going on.
For the first two episodes we’ve had the Master followed around by the University bloke as standard underling to talk to – and the story’s really confused about how he interacts with the Master, frankly – within a few minutes of this episode starting, he’s killed off… and replaced by an Atlantean standard underling to talk to. Neither of them do anything, and the death of one for replacement by the other is a distraction – an illusion of progress and change… whilst nothing happens. Slowly. It’s symptomatic of the entire story.
We’re half way through, and there’s really no plot. The story, what it amounts to, is the Master trying a series of increasingly successful attempts to capture a time monster (hence the title) whilst the Doctor wanders off and distracts himself and let’s the Master get on with it. There’s a sequence half way through when they retreat to a cottage on the grounds, and the Doctor says all they can do is wait and orders up tea and cake. Really? Is that the best this story can do? The Master’s taking over the world, and you just wander off saying ‘well, we can’t do anything yet, how about a cuppa.’ The Doctor doesn’t wait. He shouldn’t wait. And yet this entire episode is about filling in time until the Doctor can do something.
And why can’t the Doctor do anything? Because it’s all too small, that’s why. The plot is hinged on one simple device – the Master summons a monster with a machine. That’s it. The moment the Doctor’s on the scene, it should be a piece of piss for him to defeat that. So they’ve got to invent way to distract him or stop him from actually doing anything – be it dangerous time eddies that people can’t get through, or, more prosaically, just not doing anything about it when he has the chance (‘yes, the Master wants to use this machine to take over the world – tell you what, let’s just wander off and do something fundamentally less important for the moment, shall we? Give him a chance to pop by.’).
The story needs more threads. It’s odd, but for a story so epic in scope (with a neat sci-fi concept and Atlantis jostling for position) it feels so small. There’s only about two sets, and two groups of people (all of the goodies just hang around together – that’s six people, and as a result no-one gets to do anything worthwhile or memorable on any level). And it has to work its damnedest to keep them apart (because that would switch off the story) but unless they meet there’s nothing much that can happen. It’s all exemplified by the Doctor’s contraption. The Doctor building up a jammer from all manner of household rubbish is such a delightful (and quintessentially Who-ish idea) that it’s easy to miss the fact that it’s a pointless distraction and waste of time. The moment it operates, the Master over-rides it in about three seconds.
And then, after having half the episode be about the Doctor not quite doing anything yet, the Master joins in! The Master, in contrast, has almost looked like he’s doing something in this episode (he hasn’t, he’s just got a little bit closer to actually pulling off what he’s been trying to do for – or more accurately, he’s got a little bit less unsuccessful this time). And then, just when he can trot off to Atlantis to sort it all out, he decides to hang around and try to destroy the TARDIS (which he must know is rather pointless).
Good things in this episode… Well, the Brig gets all the nice lines (same as usual). And the idea of the Master plucking random elements of the past to attack the UNIT convoy is quite fun (although, much like the Doctor’s device, fairly pointless sideshow distractions). Beyond that, still dull.
Dorney
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#699 30 Apr 2008, 12:31 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Edinburgh
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Re: Day by Day
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The only amusing thing I can remember about the first half of the story is the cliffhanger to part 2. The Atlantean chappy appears (not exactly a cracking cliffhanger in itself) and just watch the university guy's reaction. He jerks his entire body round with his arms held out as if holding an invisible teatray and with the most comically aghast face since the monkey bastard from The Wheel In Space.
Other than that, I can't remember a decent reason for watching this. It's just a series of silly performances, bad dialogue and upskirt shots (male and female). Which I'm sure, all things considered, is targeted at a niche audience somewhere.
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#700 30 Apr 2008, 6:37 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 4:
There’s something almost heroic about the determination of this story to get worse every single episode. ‘Hey, you thought last week was boring? Wait til you get a load of this!’
After an episode that included lots of detail to disguise the fact that there isn’t actually a story going on, this one is fairly open about it. It doesn’t even try to pretend there’s anything going on. The major action of the episode is the Doctor trying to give the Master a bit of a talking to, and the Master not listening to him. That’s as dramatic as it gets. I’m not exaggerating.
You see, you really do get the sense that they’ve had a lot of cool ideas for set-pieces here… they’ve just forgotten that they need a plot to back it up. Look at the cliffhanger, and it’s resolution. The Master’s all ready to hop off to Atlantis, but then discovers that the Doctor’s TARDIS is heading their way. Ah, says he, I don’t want any one to follow me, so he sends various historical people to attack the UNIT convoy. All well and good. Until the resolution, where his pointless Atlantean chum (only purpose – someone for him to explain the plot to, that’s all the character does) asks ‘so have you destroyed it then’, and the Master says ‘no, it’s indestructible’. So the deeply tenuous justification for the Master deciding to put a temporary halt to his plans in order to provide a cliffhanger (oh and more time for the Doctor to catch up) is just changed overnight. The Master then says that people can be destroyed, but what’s the point of that? He’s about to destroy the world, why worry about getting a few soldiers who can’t possibly stop him? Oh, and whilst we’re on the cliffhanger, it’s disappointing that the reprise drops the nicest bit of it. The previous episode ends with the Brigadier urgently calling for Yates on the radio, and in gorgeous touch that’s underplayed to the degree of being easy to miss, he stops calling for ‘Yates’, and starts calling to ‘Mike’. A lovely genuine human moment. Whereas in this episode, this bit is dropped, and replaced to a shot of Benton trying to get in touch back at the cottage. Where his immediate response on not hearing anything is saying ‘I think they’ve copped it’ in a tone of mild concern (and then to add insult to injury, the scene is rendered utterly pointless when the Brig phones him up a minute or so later and, in the same nondescript tone, Benton replies ‘oh good. We thought you’d copped it’. We know. You said it about thirty seconds ago. Grief).
And it just gets worse. The Master then proceeds to waste as much time as possible playing around with a few control buttons (as if he hasn’t had enough time to do whatever he needs to in the two whole episodes he hasn’t moved from the lab in) in order to give the Doctor a chance to catch him – oh and for the unfunny comedy troop of Benton, Ruth and Stewart to try a raid based on little more than suicidal idiocy. I love the way that upon deciding to launch a planless attack on the Master, Stewart picks up a spanner, the implication being that the ‘lovable’ foolish scientist’s only plan to stop the Master, who let’s remember hasn’t done anything evil in front of him, is to smash his head in. Family fun, eh? And even if it wasn’t, these three decide to attack a man who has a machine that controls time with one gun and a spanner? No, there are four spanners here by my count. And once again, it’s pointless – as the Master gets away in a really badly done move within about twenty seconds. Actually, what’s most depressing about this is that a mere two episodes after the script credits Benton with a degree of resourcefulness and intelligence, the vacuous desperation of the script requires him to become a cretin again - ignoring everything he’s been told by a man he trusts to go along with the witless bravado of a self-righteous lunatic. All for the sake of filling in a bit of time (oh, and before I forget – Collier’s lost it by this point. The character’s so badly, clunkily written, that he’s lost all the charm I initially talked about – it’s all so self-consciously ‘funny’ that you just want to smack him).
Next, we have the Doctor’s ship landing inside the Masters (and vice versa). The Russian doll TARDIS thing is a corker of a concept… but once again, it’s not attached to anything in the plot. It’s simply there as a device to stop anything from actually happening. (And even then, we once more have the Doctor announcing his entire plan as being ‘waiting’ - if the hero can't be arsed to do something, why the hell are we watching?)
Likewise, the frozen UNIT and baby Benton are nice enough ideas – but all they’re actually doing is filling in time and giving the impression that something’s actually going on. And fair enough, something is going on… but it’s progressing a, by this point, irrelevant sub-plot that has no need to be there at all.
And then, as I said above, we have the entire plot stalling whilst the Doctor tries to give the Master a lecture. The Doctor’s so desperate to do this that he actually steps out of the TARDIS to face possible destruction. It beggars belief. This is ten minutes of an adventure show featuring the good guy trying to talk the villain out of doing something – such a pompous, school teacher-y way of behaving that, combined with the natural pomposity of the Pertwee Doctor, we actually root for the Master, a fact not helped by the fact that we initially view the sequence through his eyes. When he says ‘I could throw you out into the vortex’ your first thought is ‘well go on then’.
Nothing happens. At all. We’ve had four episodes now, four episodes which consist of nothing more the Master trying over and over again to do the thing he did at the end of part one and get it right, and the Doctor hanging around at the sidelines going ‘well, I can’t really do anything.’
Tedium, thy name is ‘The Time Monster’.
Dorney
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#701 2 May 2008, 8:23 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 5:
There’s only one major thing wrong with the fifth episode of The Time Monster. And that’s the fact that it’s the fifth episode.
After two episodes that were basically a masterpiece of procrastination, we finally reach Atlantis – and suddenly the story gets good. Which does rather beg the question of why it’s taken so long to go there.
OK, so we’ve had a few brief visits there in episodes two and three. But that’s not what I mean. This is basically the moment that the actual story starts. Everything suddenly seems so much better and more interesting. There’s something going on, as opposed to avoiding something going on. Suddenly the heroes and villains don’t just have to wander around a computer with a furrowed brow. Honestly, why does it take until episode five before we come here? Ancient Greece and a Minotaur versus a woman’s libber and a prat hanging round a university looking at dials. There’s no contest, surely?
The episode isn’t entirely perfect – the resolution to the fairly definite and eerie cliffhanger is depressingly feeble (Jo simpy presses a handy ‘in event of cliffhanger’ button on the console), Hippias is one of the strangest performances in the series and the Master’s mate remains utterly irrelevant (although, bizarrely, recognised by the Doctor despite never having actually met him). But in comparison to the previous couple of episodes it’s dazzling.
There actually seems to be the making of a plot, in the most literal sense. Rather than a series of remote control attempts to fool each others plans, tinkering, maths and waiting, both the Master and the Doctor are actually doing something. The Master in particular has a ball, all manipulative and Machiavellian, finding who to side with, lying, hypnotising, trying to get what he wants. Actively trying. His scene with Galleia is beautifully plotted. Which leads me on to my next point. There are actual characters not one note ciphers. Galleia, for example, is genuinely interesting and multi layered – far from being anything as simple and straightforward as just an evil cheating queen, she’s complicated (witness her telling the Master that she wants nothing to happen to her husband, and Hippias’ genuinely sad lament for the loss of the girl she was). Likewise, everybody in Atlantis just seems to be so much better written, so much more real. Dalios is witty and wise, and genuinely likeable. Even Susan Penhaligon’s maid is given more scope. The dialogue sparkles, full of lovely jokes and wit (‘what did Poseidon have for breakfast’ Dalios asks the Master, before answering for him ‘fish, I suppose).
All of which is all well and good and entertaining, but it does lead to one fairly obvious point. Why haven’t they bothered doing this before now? If you can create good characters, write funny dialogue, and have interesting plots… why have you made us waste our time for four episodes? Why make us put up with a plotless runaround filled with crass caricatures? It seems obvious to me that this is the bit of the story that inspired the whole thing. They seem to have saved up their best writing for this section, and that could explain the lacklustre feel of the earlier stuff (it must be dispiriting wasting time before you get to the fun bit). So why structure it that way? One of the writers was in charge of the series, so why? Why?
Dorney
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#702 2 May 2008, 8:31 pm
Liberty Hall
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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...awww, I like this story. I like the relationship between Benton and Stewart. I like to think maybe, after Benton got his nappy off, they met up for a few jars & a game of darts - maybe they even went on a "Carry-On" style caravan holiday to the south coast to try (and fail) to "pull" some "birds".
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"This is only supposed to be a Top Secret military organisation" mused the Brigadier with considerable sarcasm. Doctor Tyler was lost for words.
"Liberty Hall, Doctor Tyler, Liberty Hall.." The Brigadier turned and strode briskly away.
"Who does that @£$% think he's talking to?" thought Tyler to himself.
"!@£$ f@£5er! I ought to kick his f@£$ing head in..." Tyler turned back to the lab bench.
Doctor Who & The Three Doctors, Target Books
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#703 5 May 2008, 6:47 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
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Re: Day by Day
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The Time Monster 6:
If there’s ever a story I want to do a ‘Phantom Edit’ on, it’s this one. You see, it all comes together in such an epic and mythic way that you can almost forget how pants the first four episodes are. A good strong edit would remove the fluff and leave the strength of the story behind. As it is, there’s been far to much irrelevant action, too many disposable cliffhangers for this to be anything other than a low, low watermark.
Much the same as the last episode, this story’s finale is so entertaining that you wonder why it took so long to get here. Particularly because a lot of the detail in this segment is rushed – the route to getting hold of the crystal of Kronos should be harsh, difficult. As it is, it takes about two minutes to get past the world’s most rubbish guardian and straight at it. There’s potential here –a good episode’s worth of questing, all sort of danger and adventure… but the need to get to the end of the story as quickly as possible scuppers it. And that’s frustrating, because the story has been about a quest – the Master trying to release Kronos, but rather than a quest full of danger, it’s a quest that just seems to involve him doing a lot of sums. It should have been a series of battles with the Doctor desperately trying to prevent the Master passing the next obstacle. And as it is, the Doctor is at his most ineffectual in this story. Always hanging around the fringes, waiting. Only right at the end does he do something proper to defeat the villain – the Time Ram – up until then, he just sits around ‘waiting’ and ballsing things up. Heck, even then he doesn’t do anything – he needs Jo to make the decision.
That ending is massively right though –it tells us about the compassion of the Doctor and the bravery of Jo, and feels like a suitably epic gesture to bring the story to an end – considering the tale is, almost entirely, a game of cat and mouse between the Doctor and the Master rather than about an actual scheme, you couldn’t really end it any other way and you’ve just got to love a noble sacrifice ain’t ya? The sudden appearance of the god-like Kronos to save everyone doesn’t really feel like the cop-out it could seem. After all, we’ve already had an ending to the story, this is just shifting that ending so it can work as a series. Of course, this is the first spot where the script really goes poor in this episode, with the Master’s pleading so generic and out of character that even the mighty Delgado can’t do it convincingly. And it does go downhill from there somewhat, firstly with the Master’s pathetically easy escape (no matter what situation he’s trapped in this story, they can all be answered with a good shove, it would seem), and then the return to Cambridge for the Scooby-Doo ‘everybody laughing at not terribly good joke until the credits roll’ ending.
But I’m rushing ahead of myself. There are loads of incidental details I love, although not always for the best of reasons. I love the Doctor’s offhand dismissal of Hippias death (he says ‘he’s dead’ without going to check – last time I checked, being chucked through a window wasn’t necessarily fatal – and following his announcement I was half expecting Hippias to turn up in the background saying ‘actually, I’m all right’ whilst they ignored him and continued lamenting his demise…). It’s also hard not to mention the ‘dasiest daisy’ speech. There’s a degree to which it’s quite self consciously the ‘arty’ bit (you can almost hear Letts and Sloman’s saying to each other: ‘this is lovely, isn’t it? You’re great you are – they’ll be quoting this for years!’) and that almost takes the shine off it… but it’s such a nicely written moment that you’d have to be far more of a stone cold cynic than me to dislike it. Finally, the whole Atlantis subplot is wrapped up impeccably, with each character (bar the ever pointless Krassis) getting a beautiful tragic resolution – all destroyed by the Master’s treachery before the Chronovore brings the house down, even though he’s not directly responsible for any of the deaths, the man bringing death in his shadow. Which only makes the eventual return to wet caricatures in Cambridge all the more disappointing.
Overall then – a good enough idea ruined by not actually determining what the story is til too late in the day. A desperate series of plot stretching distractions almost, but not quite, redeemed by the two episodes somebody actually bothered to write.
Dorney
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#704 7 May 2008, 8:53 am
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Good assessment of the Time Monster. I believe it is very well-received by children, especially the Doctor and Master spiting each other as well as nonsense like the minotaur bullfight, "Jojo Grant" etc, and it has some lovely design, including nearly-accurate Minoan-Crete stuff (though to be strictly accurate, the women should be topless).
It's a bit of a rewrite of "The Daemons" really (Master fails in attempts to resurrect and control ancient deity), before Sloman and Letts found their feet with "The Green Death".
As I watch DW mainly with an eye to the design and look of the thing (as a child, I rarely understood the entire plot - handy in the Hinchcliffe era, since so many of those were just knock-offs from cinema films anyway, so little was lost) it is the "moments" of imagination and strangeness and nice design that catch my eye (and imagination).
Laurence Miles latest blog entry* speaks elowuently of what Dr Who is really about - surprise (mystery) - and Time Monster provides plenty of surprises. Not least in its total change of pace, story and setting when it gets to Atlantis!
* http://beasthouse-lm2.blogspot.com/2...-surpriii.html
The Mutants
22 Mar 2008, 3:48 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 1:
Deciding which Doctor Who stories you like is all a question of what bothers you. At what point your bother threshold is crossed.
One of the unfortunate aspects of most great Doctor Who stories is that there’s always at least one thing that you have to pretend isn’t there. Something that bothers you. Giant rat, giant clam, giant snake (it’s often a giant animal of some sort), Magma Beast, David Graham acting with none of the subtlety of everyone else. But it’s relatively easy to ignore because it’s just one thing – in the greater context of the story it doesn’t bother you.
The more things there are in a story that bother you, the harder that story is to like. Most of the stories everyone tends to hate are jam packed with bothering things.
However, things don’t bother you equally at all times. Take The Sea Devils as a case in point. Only a few tings - lack of a plot, minor oddities in what happened, crap lip sync - all minor league problems and as a result, the story is still watchable. Whereas take it up to the level of the Space Pirates, say, with atrocious acting, ludicrous plot, tedious pacing. It’s only really a couple of things again, but for me personally, they’re much more troubling, and as a result the story is much much worse. A stupidly insane plot bothers me more than an insanely slight one.
This is further compounded by the fact that different fans find different things troubling. For me, it’s almost always about the plot. If the plot’s good, I’ll forgive anything. But for others, they can’t forgive a story with ropey effects. Or poor production design. Whilst it would be mad to say that I don’t look at a crap set and think ‘oh, I wish that looked a bit better’, it simply isn’t a make or break issue for me.
So what has this to do with The Mutants – well, one episode in it’s clear that this story is going to be filled with bits that are potentially bothering. The ruling classes (the Earth Imperialists) look more like fetish lords than the overlords they’re named as. The natives dialogue is written almost entirely in cod sci-fi balls. And worst of all, it takes literally less than ten seconds before you realise that one of the cast is probably the worst actor in the series to date.
And as result it’s a somewhat derided story. But my initial thoughts, albeit based on one episode alone, is that it’s not actually uninteresting.
It’s probably too early to judge. Certainly, this episode is helped by the legend that is Geoffrey Palmer, but he’s clearly not in the rest of it (why is it that this obviously class actor has never had a major role in Who? Even with the new series, his only real post-becoming acting royalty role in Who, he’s still out of the story before the plot starts). Nonetheless, I like a lot of it.
Firstly, rather like Peladon and Colony, it’s interesting to note that the outer space stories of the Pertwee era to date are the straight ones. Troughton goes into space and it’s all pulp fiction and nutso alien invaders. Whereas the three Pertwee outer space adventures to date are all political. Admittedly, Curse is a bit more of a romp than the others, but it’s fairly clear which are the boys own adventures, and which are the thoughtful pieces.
I think it’s something of a shame that this leaves Colony and the Mutants regarded as dull. The comparative lack of action and thrills is another thing to be bothered by, sure, but are we really unable to cope with anything different? I’m not sure whether I really like the story yet, but this episode seems interesting in a way that the fun, but shallow, Sea Devils isn’t.
Like Curse, this story is rooted in individual weakness and tragedy rather than simplistic monsters with guns. The plot is entirely derived from human beings making selfish choices for small outcomes rather than big invasion plans. The petty self-interest of the Marshal is a gloriously banal motive for a villain, which makes him a thoroughly unpleasant villain, as it’s much more accessible to us. The natives so caught up in their own prejudices they don’t give Palmer the opportunity to give them what they actually want is the very definition of dramatic irony. And the moments of violence and horror are clearly about something – the obvious racism and homophobia allegory with man turning against man for being different. Characters could become the enemy instantaneously and this resonates with the witch hunts we’ve seen in history, where people can become the enemy of overnight and for the weakest of reasons (and isn’t the first sign of the mutation, the spine bursting out of the back, one of the most grotesque images the show’s had?) . It’s all close to home, and so whilst it might not be the most exciting thing ever, it’s certainly adult. Now, let’s be clear here – I’m not saying that all of this is necessarily better, just that it’s an interestingly different approach. It simply gives the story a moral grandeur that has to make it worthwhile as a watch. And that has to compensate for a few dodgy sets and Rick James doesn’t it?
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#682 22 Mar 2008, 7:32 pm
Stahlman
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Re: Day by Day
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Glad to see you like it so far, I just did a review of it in my thread recently. This has always been in my personal Top 20/30, never understood why everyone dislikes it so much. Like you say, there's a lot more going on in one episode than there was in the whole of The Sea Devils.
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#683 22 Mar 2008, 8:05 pm
Jeffster
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlman
Glad to see you like it so far, I just did a review of it in my thread recently. This has always been in my personal Top 20/30, never understood why everyone dislikes it so much. Like you say, there's a lot more going on in one episode than there was in the whole of The Sea Devils.
Not everyone! I like it too!
And I don't find the acting that bad in this story, certainly not noticeably worse than many others.
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#684 24 Mar 2008, 1:21 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 2:
A couple of years back I was in a production of The Revengers Tragedy (an odd play - no one can decide which of two authors it’s by). And for some reason, it just didn’t seem to work. It took me a long tim to put my finger on why. The acting seemed fine, heck, even very good in parts. The design worked, the atmosphere. And the director was a well regarded up and coming talent who dealt in a lot of new plays with big names, so that could hardly be it. Could it?
Eventually I realised that it could. You see, a modern play is easier to direct than a classic piece. A modern play does all of its work for, it connects to the audience directly. Whereas a classical piece doesn’t have that direct connection.
The director, for my money, simply didn’t have any idea what to do with the play beyond telling the story competently and well. There was no vision, nothing he wanted it to say. You can pull that off in a modern play because scripts today are written for the audience today, and say something directly. Classical plays are written for audiences hundreds of years ago, and are, usually, story rather than thematically based. You’ve a good story well told – but unless you want to do more than just tell the story, what’s the point?
You see, for me that’s something missing in the direction of The Mutants. I don’t often mention direction in these reviews, because I only really notice at the extremes. But, simply put, there’s something… uninspired about Christopher Barry’s helming of this episode. As I say above, he doesn’t seem to want to do anything other than tell the story, to get from a to b.
It’s not that I want him to go nuts or anything – just there’s the sense that he’s gone for the easiest option each time. One of the bits that leapt out at me in this episode was Stubbs and the Doctor discussing the Marshall’s duplicity. This occurs with them walking down the corridor, chatting amiably about it. There’s no sense of urgency, no sense of secrecy, no sense of danger. It’s as if all that they’ve been directed to do is say the lines and make sure the audience hears them. There’s no attempt to do anything more with the scene – say, generate tension.
Likewise, the end of the episode (with Varon attempting escape as the base goes mad) should be exciting… but it just isn’t. Once again, the Doctor and Varon are just walking everywhere in plain sight (not even checking around corners or anything you’d expect someone to do when they’re attempting to leave a place surreptitiously). The only threat represented is one guard who shoots a blast at Varon – but even then, said guard is off screen, and he then, mystifyingly, fails to follow the man he can quite clearly see. Again, no urgency. It’s underwhelming.
And that’s a shame, because the script is really rather interesting. After a lot of fairly padded stories, I was quite pleased with how fast moving these first two episodes are. OK, the attempt to turn the box inside out is a little bit of a sideshow distraction, but it’s less obvious than usual and, because it is a natural offshoot of the Marshall’s established characterisation and the Doctor’s very reason for being there, at least feels like part of the plot (although like the civil servant swap-over in Sea Devils 4/5, the arrival of scientist Jaegar feels less like a natural progression and more like they can afford another actor now they’ve written out Geoffrey Palmer). Everything else, however, feels like it’s going at quite a lick. Certainly, having not seen the story in years, I was genuinely surprised at the pace. Given where we were at the end of episode one, by the time the credits roll on this one we’ve got a lot more progress than in a lot of other stories. Notice, for example, how the story deals with the missing Jo. The Doctor is misled one way very quickly, then told the truth ten minutes later. Likewise, the search for Varon initially made my heart sink. The thought that went through my head was ‘oh, we’re going to have a pointlessly extended chase to fill the episode, aren’t we’. So the fact that it’s over in about ninety seconds is rather cool. Furthermore, pretty much every relationship has progressed and developed over the twenty five minutes – the Marshall betrays Varon, Stubbs and Cotton realise the Marshall’s the baddie and side with the Doctor, Jo and Ky develop a certain trust. Most importantly, the Doctor uncovers what the villain’s up to. Now, unusually, we’re ahead of him on this, but I would, nonetheless, have expected at least another episode before the Doctor figured it out and the plot shifted on. It’s all fast, but it’s not rushed, and in a six parter that’s a blessing.
Good so far then, shame about the direction.
Dorney
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#685 24 Mar 2008, 3:57 pm
Sir Anthony Eden
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Re: Day by Day
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Interesting review. This certainly is a big beast of a thread.
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#686 30 Mar 2008, 11:26 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 3:
Crikey, I really do have to write these reviews up a bit more promptly. I watched this episode about three days ago. Just haven’t had the opportunity to drone on about it yet, and as a result haven’t had the option to watch episode four!
OK, first off – I may have been a little unfair on the direction last time. It’s still not great, but there are a few obvious flaws with the writing – the resolution of the cliffhanger is really rather weak (mainly due to it being a contrived set up in the first place, but also because the Doctor seems to be grabbed outside the teleport initially, then is inside it the next) but particularly we have the fact that the Doctor and Varan can land on the surface and just chat for two or three minutes. There were two guards literally seconds behind them. Why aren’t they following?
Equally, it seems, frankly, suicidal as a scripting choice to write a world where people have to wear masks at all times. Yeah, that’s going to make your dialogue easily comprehendible for every one.
But generally I think the writing is solid, if a touch workmanlike and uninspiring. At worst, everyone speaks like a sci-fi cliché, but once you get into the pulpy mindset of the story, this is hardly a problem. What works about it, works well.
For example, the script deals with the mysteries well. It’s the difference between something like Babylon 5 and Lost. I recall that when Sky got the rights to show Lost, I reckoned that they thought they’d get loads of viewers switching over desperate to find out what happened next – in reality I think people reacted like me: first thought, ‘Thank the Lord, I’ve a reason not to watch it now.’ And the reason for this? Because the mystery just got boring. Two years in, fundamental questions of the show weren’t answered. Questions get dull. Whereas in contrast, most of the questions posed by the initial episodes of Babylon 5 were answered by the start of series 2. But to keep the audience interested, they were replaced with new questions, developments of the others.
That’s what The Mutants is doing terribly well, in my opinion. Look how every episode teases you. The initial episode sets up the mystery of the strange box and who it’s for (and we get the answer to the latter at the end of said episode, the former held off til this). But rather beautifully, the opening of the box, the event we’ve been waiting three episodes for, leads on to new questions. What are these mysterious tablets that no-one can understand. It’s hard not to wonder why the Timelords have made passing a message on so bloody tough (no name, nothing obvious) but it’s impossible to deny the dramatic effect it has. But it’s not the only hook. The story is always moving on, adding new elements. It’s very easy to overlook, for example, but with this episode featuring the first appearance of the full scale Mutt monsters (and excellent they look too), you’ve still been given a neat hook in the last – familiarity makes it easy to miss, but we’re given the brief silhouetting of one of the creatures as a fairly portentous image. This episode does it best though with the strange cave and suited figure that Jo encounters – a very real indication that the story is going to go somewhere odd and unexpected. Up until this point you sort of feel you know where it’s going. Something new and disjointed implies there is more to this story than you’d assumed. OK, it’s fairly easy to guess who the man is – partially due to Ky’s somewhat over-emphasised story, but mainly due to them putting his name in the sodding credits.
In addition, the story remains in fairly constant motion. There are constantly shifting alliances – The Marshall breaking from Stubbs and Cotton, Varon and the Doctor’s on/off partnership. It’s great to see a story that’s really progressing. That’s really a story, in fact.
Good fun.
Dorney
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#687 1 Apr 2008, 12:31 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 4:
After cutting Christopher Barry some slack last time round, I’ve got to get back on his case again. There’s potential for quite an exciting episode here, but he keeps fudging it.
The episodes earliest set piece features the Doctor and his friends in an imminently collapsing mountain. But much as with episode two, there’s just no urgency. Jo, Ky, Stubbs and Cotton all head off looking for the sole escape route – and they’re just ambling along like they’re on a particularly dull nature trail. This leaves the whole collapsing mountain thing deeply unconvincing. Without any real sense of danger, you’re left with a camera wobble and a sound effect whenever they remember to do one. You never get the sense that anyone’s in danger.
There are other things that are badly done – the first appearance of Sondergaard, for example, has all the characters saying ‘what is that thing’ or words to the effect, and then acting all shocked when he reveals himself to be human. This would be fine, if he doesn’t blatantly look like a man in a radiation suit from the second you see him. Then there’s a weird special effect camera that’s designed to have an elongated angle that’s put on straightforward shots for no clear reason.
Most annoyingly of all, there’s the cliffhanger. Now, I find Family Guy much more annoying than My Family, because the former has the potential to be good, even great, and doesn’t really do it – the latter’s just not something I like from the get go. And it’s the same with this cliffhanger – it’s annoying, because it’s about an inch or two away from greatness. With a countdown in the background, and the Marshall’s men lurking in the background, there’s a genuine sense of it all rushing to a head… and then it’s just fumbled. The staging of the Marshall ambushing Varan’s rebels is so ineptly staged it resembles nothing less than an amateur company’s desperation improvisation. They all seem unsure what to do, cramming themselves up next to each other in the tiniest space, with no one quite timing it right. Then we have Varan finding his mark and attacking unconvincingly, much as the Marshall does in response. It’s only at this point that it gets good again, with the slow motion effects of Varan getting sucked into space, set against the struggles of the others and the launch of the missiles, has a genuinely powerful impact. It’s just a shame it’s a mess getting there.
Equally, though, there are writing problems. The revelation of what the Doctor’s tablets mean in particular. Not because of what they say, but the sense that this otherwise well put together hook for the story seems stupidly illogical in hindsight. The box is intended for Ky – but for no obvious reason, as he can’t read the tablets. They’re then taken to Sondergaard who gives the Doctor a few hints – because he can’t really understand them either. Eventually the Doctor figures it out. Great. Wouldn’t there have been an easier way to pass this message on? Surely the message is for the Doctor himself. And is there any reason why it had to be in the form of a code? Unless the Timelords just wanted to give him an adventure (I suppose it could be viewed as a loophole in the ‘no-interference’ thing – when pressed the claim can be made that no help was sent, just a couple of Sudoku’s and a Codebreaker).
But I still think it’s outweighed by the good. The cast are, almost, pretty good to a man. OK, sometimes the characters are a little one note (I’m looking at you Marshall) but the actor’s do what they need to do. I like John Hollis as Sondergaard, though the part’s a little generic. The Afrikaans accent is a nice touch, if a little disconcerting – apparently there was an attempt to have different accents in order to make it feel multi-cultural. But up until this point, we’ve only dealt with accents we regularly hear in the show anyway – heck, even Jaegar’s Germanic tones feel like standard mad scientist.
And I think the story remains strong. It seems to me that one reason this story isn’t popular is the fact that it isn’t a plot driven story, per se. The villain doesn’t really have a grand plan or objective, there aren’t any real plot markers being switched on and off. What it is instead is character driven. The story has a vague premise (mutation as part of a natural cycle) against which is sets a wide range of warring factions and just sets them off. It sees how various characters – all of whom have believable and comprehensible motivations, ordinary motivations rather than domination of the universe – impact on each other. The closest story I can think of to it in structural terms is, amazingly, Caves of Androzani. The Mutants isn’t as complex as that script, but it’s storyline is propelled by the interaction of its cast in the same way, and as a result it has the same epic tragic feel – every character’s fate is determined by who they are, by actions and decisions on a very personal level. This is why I think suggestions this story is padded are missing the point. Because it’s not a case of random fight scenes and characters fill out a painfully thin plot – The Mutants is a story where the plot is merely a hook to get a lot of disparate characters to come into conflict. The padding is the point.
Dorney
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#688 1 Apr 2008, 3:55 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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An enjoyable and well written review, as always. I've always had a liking for The Mutants. Sure, it looks cheap and a bit murky but it rattles along at a good pace. There's certainly nothing objectively terrible about it compared to aspects of The Time Monster.
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#689 2 Apr 2008, 11:56 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutnts 5:
It’s an odd episode here. A lot of things the previous episodes did badly, this does well. And a lot of things the previous episodes did well, this does badly.
The central set piece of the episode is Jo and her gang escaping the Marshall’s imprisonment and being chased through the ship. And hallelujah, it’s actually directed with a sense of urgency and pace. It’s exciting, it’s fun… but, four episodes in, it’s the first bit of clear padding, standard capture/escape/capture stuff. And it’s not the only bit.
For example, I’m struggling to see what the point of Sondergaard is, other than to give the Doctor someone to talk to. When he was introduced, it felt like he was going to be a device to push the story off somewhere new, but in reality he’s just a sounding board. And that’s a shame.
You see, we’ve kind of figured out where the story’s heading now, and this episode’s only real function is to mark time until the conclusion and confrontation can be reached. For most of the time it’s concealed relatively well (the sideplot of the Doctor working to clear Solos of poison is a logical step given the circumstances), but we’ve got to the point where we really need to be moving into the endgame now – all the questions are answered, let’s finish this. I suppose it had to happen eventually, but it’s a shame to see the writing slide this close to the finishing line.
Still, some of the rest of it’s still going well – the plot remains interesting and low-key. It was good to see the old line about ‘only obeying orders’ mentioned here, because it does emphasise what’s going on (much as does Stubbs basically having to hold off his mates during the fire fight). The story is driven by politics and character. The Marshall is nothing more or less than a political tyrant clinging to rule, motivated by simple greed and ego. If I’m honest, I think he could do with a touch more menace. He’s so clearly barking mad, and what he’s asking people to do is so clearly evil, that you kind of wonder why people are obeying him. Blind obedience seems to be the answer implied, but I’m not totally convinced that’s enough. Either the Overlords have to agree with him, or they have to be afraid, and there’s no real sense of which they’re motivated by. Still, there is at least historical precedent, which could be the point.
It’s still fun, then, but I’m glad there’s only one episode left, cos I don’t think it can sustain much more.
Dorney
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#690 2 Apr 2008, 9:27 pm
Borgduck
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The Mutnts 5:
It’s an odd episode here. A lot of things the previous episodes did badly, this does well. And a lot of things the previous episodes did well, this does badly.
The central set piece of the episode is Jo and her gang escaping the Marshall’s imprisonment and being chased through the ship. And hallelujah, it’s actually directed with a sense of urgency and pace. It’s exciting, it’s fun… but, four episodes in, it’s the first bit of clear padding, standard capture/escape/capture stuff. And it’s not the only bit.
For example, I’m struggling to see what the point of Sondergaard is, other than to give the Doctor someone to talk to. When he was introduced, it felt like he was going to be a device to push the story off somewhere new, but in reality he’s just a sounding board. And that’s a shame.
You see, we’ve kind of figured out where the story’s heading now, and this episode’s only real function is to mark time until the conclusion and confrontation can be reached. For most of the time it’s concealed relatively well (the sideplot of the Doctor working to clear Solos of poison is a logical step given the circumstances), but we’ve got to the point where we really need to be moving into the endgame now – all the questions are answered, let’s finish this. I suppose it had to happen eventually, but it’s a shame to see the writing slide this close to the finishing line.
Still, some of the rest of it’s still going well – the plot remains interesting and low-key. It was good to see the old line about ‘only obeying orders’ mentioned here, because it does emphasise what’s going on (much as does Stubbs basically having to hold off his mates during the fire fight). The story is driven by politics and character. The Marshall is nothing more or less than a political tyrant clinging to rule, motivated by simple greed and ego. If I’m honest, I think he could do with a touch more menace. He’s so clearly barking mad, and what he’s asking people to do is so clearly evil, that you kind of wonder why people are obeying him. Blind obedience seems to be the answer implied, but I’m not totally convinced that’s enough. Either the Overlords have to agree with him, or they have to be afraid, and there’s no real sense of which they’re motivated by. Still, there is at least historical precedent, which could be the point.
It’s still fun, then, but I’m glad there’s only one episode left, cos I don’t think it can sustain much more.
I think Sondergaard is a great Prog Rock track, Novalis could do no wrong.
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#691 24 Apr 2008, 1:34 pm
ianzpotter
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Re: Day by Day
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It's been a while since The Mutants for me, but one thing I recall is that like some other Baker and Martin shows it's really well geared up to the series-serial format. The episodes pretty much stand up as being about one thing every week as well as joining up to make a larger whole. For example the whole Earth judges bit (with their Acheson proto-Time Lord look) is, as I recall it, a one episode job.
The most obvious example is the Invisible Enemy which is pretty much a different situation every episode- Titan/Bi Al and its attack/Inside the Brain/ Oh hang on back to Titan, blow it all up.
They're much better shows if you watch the episodes one at a time, and probably much better for the general audience as a result, even if it does sometimes mean the cliffhangers and resolutions can be a bit on/off.
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#692 24 Apr 2008, 7:09 pm
amancuso
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Re: Day by Day
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conclusion please?!
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Whoever thinks of a screwdriver and says "this could be more sonic"?
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#693 25 Apr 2008, 12:02 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 6:
Crikey, it's been ages since I watched this one. Hope I can remember anything...
Well, firstly, it's a gloriously crammed episode. I've said before, probably in this very thread, that sometimes final episodes can write themselves - all you need is to put enough threads in the previous episodes that you just have to tie them all off and resolve them. Amazingly, the Mutants tries to squeeze in a few more - with the Doctor first blackmailed to back the Marshall, then free to speak the truth, then the Mutt's arrival changing the Investigators position, then the Investigator himself is betrayed... it's jammed to the gills. OK, the story did tread water a little in the last episode, but it's making up for that now. The plot shifts in new directions practically every scene, and once again, it's all rooted in the themes of the story - politics and perception. You get the sense that Baker and Martin are really pulling out the stops. This episode is all hell breaking loose - albeit, in a quiet and restrained manner. Everything is reaching a head, which is exactly how a story built around character should end. There's a genuine sense of it all coming together, leaving it quite an exciting episode - though again, a quiet and restrained exciting episode.
Particularly of note are the fate of Jaegar and the Marshall. Both are hoist on their own petards, which is always a dramatically satisfying result. Jaegar is killed by his own unpleasant experiments and the Marshall by one of the Mutants he tried to destroy - just think how dull it would have been if someone had just rocked up and shot him. In deed, this entire episode is almost about the Marshall pushing it too far and effectively asking to be killed off. It's the episode in which he switches from misguided nutter to just 'nutter'. His betrayal of the Investigator is entirely about his increasing lack of perspective and judgement. It's something of a shame that the character never really is quite rational as I think this would have a greater impact - again, going back to the classical tragedy motif, it would be the story of a man who's fatal flaw was a lack of perspective. Who starts with the best of intentions and increasingly forgets why he's doing anything, misses that he's actually turned evil (something I've often felt is potentially true of the most legendary dictators and tyrants of our time - the who 'absolute power' thing). As it is, he's always fairly mad, which does weaken the credibility of the story (as I said last time, why do people follow him? Heck, how did he even get the job in the first place?)
There are problems - Sondergaard feels as redundant as ever, there's a little too much escape/capture going on, the Doctor solves the mystery far too easily and the Marshall getting his enemy to work for him remains a daft idea... but generally speaking, it's a superb episode that answers every questions it's posed, and ups the stakes til it reaches a gorgeous ending that works in a beautifully inevitable and neat manner, ultimately resolved in the way it's been told - by the interaction of character. The whole thing comes together ending in a glorious whole.
Recommended.
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 1:
Deciding which Doctor Who stories you like is all a question of what bothers you. At what point your bother threshold is crossed.
One of the unfortunate aspects of most great Doctor Who stories is that there’s always at least one thing that you have to pretend isn’t there. Something that bothers you. Giant rat, giant clam, giant snake (it’s often a giant animal of some sort), Magma Beast, David Graham acting with none of the subtlety of everyone else. But it’s relatively easy to ignore because it’s just one thing – in the greater context of the story it doesn’t bother you.
The more things there are in a story that bother you, the harder that story is to like. Most of the stories everyone tends to hate are jam packed with bothering things.
However, things don’t bother you equally at all times. Take The Sea Devils as a case in point. Only a few tings - lack of a plot, minor oddities in what happened, crap lip sync - all minor league problems and as a result, the story is still watchable. Whereas take it up to the level of the Space Pirates, say, with atrocious acting, ludicrous plot, tedious pacing. It’s only really a couple of things again, but for me personally, they’re much more troubling, and as a result the story is much much worse. A stupidly insane plot bothers me more than an insanely slight one.
This is further compounded by the fact that different fans find different things troubling. For me, it’s almost always about the plot. If the plot’s good, I’ll forgive anything. But for others, they can’t forgive a story with ropey effects. Or poor production design. Whilst it would be mad to say that I don’t look at a crap set and think ‘oh, I wish that looked a bit better’, it simply isn’t a make or break issue for me.
So what has this to do with The Mutants – well, one episode in it’s clear that this story is going to be filled with bits that are potentially bothering. The ruling classes (the Earth Imperialists) look more like fetish lords than the overlords they’re named as. The natives dialogue is written almost entirely in cod sci-fi balls. And worst of all, it takes literally less than ten seconds before you realise that one of the cast is probably the worst actor in the series to date.
And as result it’s a somewhat derided story. But my initial thoughts, albeit based on one episode alone, is that it’s not actually uninteresting.
It’s probably too early to judge. Certainly, this episode is helped by the legend that is Geoffrey Palmer, but he’s clearly not in the rest of it (why is it that this obviously class actor has never had a major role in Who? Even with the new series, his only real post-becoming acting royalty role in Who, he’s still out of the story before the plot starts). Nonetheless, I like a lot of it.
Firstly, rather like Peladon and Colony, it’s interesting to note that the outer space stories of the Pertwee era to date are the straight ones. Troughton goes into space and it’s all pulp fiction and nutso alien invaders. Whereas the three Pertwee outer space adventures to date are all political. Admittedly, Curse is a bit more of a romp than the others, but it’s fairly clear which are the boys own adventures, and which are the thoughtful pieces.
I think it’s something of a shame that this leaves Colony and the Mutants regarded as dull. The comparative lack of action and thrills is another thing to be bothered by, sure, but are we really unable to cope with anything different? I’m not sure whether I really like the story yet, but this episode seems interesting in a way that the fun, but shallow, Sea Devils isn’t.
Like Curse, this story is rooted in individual weakness and tragedy rather than simplistic monsters with guns. The plot is entirely derived from human beings making selfish choices for small outcomes rather than big invasion plans. The petty self-interest of the Marshal is a gloriously banal motive for a villain, which makes him a thoroughly unpleasant villain, as it’s much more accessible to us. The natives so caught up in their own prejudices they don’t give Palmer the opportunity to give them what they actually want is the very definition of dramatic irony. And the moments of violence and horror are clearly about something – the obvious racism and homophobia allegory with man turning against man for being different. Characters could become the enemy instantaneously and this resonates with the witch hunts we’ve seen in history, where people can become the enemy of overnight and for the weakest of reasons (and isn’t the first sign of the mutation, the spine bursting out of the back, one of the most grotesque images the show’s had?) . It’s all close to home, and so whilst it might not be the most exciting thing ever, it’s certainly adult. Now, let’s be clear here – I’m not saying that all of this is necessarily better, just that it’s an interestingly different approach. It simply gives the story a moral grandeur that has to make it worthwhile as a watch. And that has to compensate for a few dodgy sets and Rick James doesn’t it?
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#682 22 Mar 2008, 7:32 pm
Stahlman
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Re: Day by Day
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Glad to see you like it so far, I just did a review of it in my thread recently. This has always been in my personal Top 20/30, never understood why everyone dislikes it so much. Like you say, there's a lot more going on in one episode than there was in the whole of The Sea Devils.
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#683 22 Mar 2008, 8:05 pm
Jeffster
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stahlman
Glad to see you like it so far, I just did a review of it in my thread recently. This has always been in my personal Top 20/30, never understood why everyone dislikes it so much. Like you say, there's a lot more going on in one episode than there was in the whole of The Sea Devils.
Not everyone! I like it too!
And I don't find the acting that bad in this story, certainly not noticeably worse than many others.
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#684 24 Mar 2008, 1:21 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 2:
A couple of years back I was in a production of The Revengers Tragedy (an odd play - no one can decide which of two authors it’s by). And for some reason, it just didn’t seem to work. It took me a long tim to put my finger on why. The acting seemed fine, heck, even very good in parts. The design worked, the atmosphere. And the director was a well regarded up and coming talent who dealt in a lot of new plays with big names, so that could hardly be it. Could it?
Eventually I realised that it could. You see, a modern play is easier to direct than a classic piece. A modern play does all of its work for, it connects to the audience directly. Whereas a classical piece doesn’t have that direct connection.
The director, for my money, simply didn’t have any idea what to do with the play beyond telling the story competently and well. There was no vision, nothing he wanted it to say. You can pull that off in a modern play because scripts today are written for the audience today, and say something directly. Classical plays are written for audiences hundreds of years ago, and are, usually, story rather than thematically based. You’ve a good story well told – but unless you want to do more than just tell the story, what’s the point?
You see, for me that’s something missing in the direction of The Mutants. I don’t often mention direction in these reviews, because I only really notice at the extremes. But, simply put, there’s something… uninspired about Christopher Barry’s helming of this episode. As I say above, he doesn’t seem to want to do anything other than tell the story, to get from a to b.
It’s not that I want him to go nuts or anything – just there’s the sense that he’s gone for the easiest option each time. One of the bits that leapt out at me in this episode was Stubbs and the Doctor discussing the Marshall’s duplicity. This occurs with them walking down the corridor, chatting amiably about it. There’s no sense of urgency, no sense of secrecy, no sense of danger. It’s as if all that they’ve been directed to do is say the lines and make sure the audience hears them. There’s no attempt to do anything more with the scene – say, generate tension.
Likewise, the end of the episode (with Varon attempting escape as the base goes mad) should be exciting… but it just isn’t. Once again, the Doctor and Varon are just walking everywhere in plain sight (not even checking around corners or anything you’d expect someone to do when they’re attempting to leave a place surreptitiously). The only threat represented is one guard who shoots a blast at Varon – but even then, said guard is off screen, and he then, mystifyingly, fails to follow the man he can quite clearly see. Again, no urgency. It’s underwhelming.
And that’s a shame, because the script is really rather interesting. After a lot of fairly padded stories, I was quite pleased with how fast moving these first two episodes are. OK, the attempt to turn the box inside out is a little bit of a sideshow distraction, but it’s less obvious than usual and, because it is a natural offshoot of the Marshall’s established characterisation and the Doctor’s very reason for being there, at least feels like part of the plot (although like the civil servant swap-over in Sea Devils 4/5, the arrival of scientist Jaegar feels less like a natural progression and more like they can afford another actor now they’ve written out Geoffrey Palmer). Everything else, however, feels like it’s going at quite a lick. Certainly, having not seen the story in years, I was genuinely surprised at the pace. Given where we were at the end of episode one, by the time the credits roll on this one we’ve got a lot more progress than in a lot of other stories. Notice, for example, how the story deals with the missing Jo. The Doctor is misled one way very quickly, then told the truth ten minutes later. Likewise, the search for Varon initially made my heart sink. The thought that went through my head was ‘oh, we’re going to have a pointlessly extended chase to fill the episode, aren’t we’. So the fact that it’s over in about ninety seconds is rather cool. Furthermore, pretty much every relationship has progressed and developed over the twenty five minutes – the Marshall betrays Varon, Stubbs and Cotton realise the Marshall’s the baddie and side with the Doctor, Jo and Ky develop a certain trust. Most importantly, the Doctor uncovers what the villain’s up to. Now, unusually, we’re ahead of him on this, but I would, nonetheless, have expected at least another episode before the Doctor figured it out and the plot shifted on. It’s all fast, but it’s not rushed, and in a six parter that’s a blessing.
Good so far then, shame about the direction.
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#685 24 Mar 2008, 3:57 pm
Sir Anthony Eden
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Re: Day by Day
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Interesting review. This certainly is a big beast of a thread.
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#686 30 Mar 2008, 11:26 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 3:
Crikey, I really do have to write these reviews up a bit more promptly. I watched this episode about three days ago. Just haven’t had the opportunity to drone on about it yet, and as a result haven’t had the option to watch episode four!
OK, first off – I may have been a little unfair on the direction last time. It’s still not great, but there are a few obvious flaws with the writing – the resolution of the cliffhanger is really rather weak (mainly due to it being a contrived set up in the first place, but also because the Doctor seems to be grabbed outside the teleport initially, then is inside it the next) but particularly we have the fact that the Doctor and Varan can land on the surface and just chat for two or three minutes. There were two guards literally seconds behind them. Why aren’t they following?
Equally, it seems, frankly, suicidal as a scripting choice to write a world where people have to wear masks at all times. Yeah, that’s going to make your dialogue easily comprehendible for every one.
But generally I think the writing is solid, if a touch workmanlike and uninspiring. At worst, everyone speaks like a sci-fi cliché, but once you get into the pulpy mindset of the story, this is hardly a problem. What works about it, works well.
For example, the script deals with the mysteries well. It’s the difference between something like Babylon 5 and Lost. I recall that when Sky got the rights to show Lost, I reckoned that they thought they’d get loads of viewers switching over desperate to find out what happened next – in reality I think people reacted like me: first thought, ‘Thank the Lord, I’ve a reason not to watch it now.’ And the reason for this? Because the mystery just got boring. Two years in, fundamental questions of the show weren’t answered. Questions get dull. Whereas in contrast, most of the questions posed by the initial episodes of Babylon 5 were answered by the start of series 2. But to keep the audience interested, they were replaced with new questions, developments of the others.
That’s what The Mutants is doing terribly well, in my opinion. Look how every episode teases you. The initial episode sets up the mystery of the strange box and who it’s for (and we get the answer to the latter at the end of said episode, the former held off til this). But rather beautifully, the opening of the box, the event we’ve been waiting three episodes for, leads on to new questions. What are these mysterious tablets that no-one can understand. It’s hard not to wonder why the Timelords have made passing a message on so bloody tough (no name, nothing obvious) but it’s impossible to deny the dramatic effect it has. But it’s not the only hook. The story is always moving on, adding new elements. It’s very easy to overlook, for example, but with this episode featuring the first appearance of the full scale Mutt monsters (and excellent they look too), you’ve still been given a neat hook in the last – familiarity makes it easy to miss, but we’re given the brief silhouetting of one of the creatures as a fairly portentous image. This episode does it best though with the strange cave and suited figure that Jo encounters – a very real indication that the story is going to go somewhere odd and unexpected. Up until this point you sort of feel you know where it’s going. Something new and disjointed implies there is more to this story than you’d assumed. OK, it’s fairly easy to guess who the man is – partially due to Ky’s somewhat over-emphasised story, but mainly due to them putting his name in the sodding credits.
In addition, the story remains in fairly constant motion. There are constantly shifting alliances – The Marshall breaking from Stubbs and Cotton, Varon and the Doctor’s on/off partnership. It’s great to see a story that’s really progressing. That’s really a story, in fact.
Good fun.
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#687 1 Apr 2008, 12:31 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 4:
After cutting Christopher Barry some slack last time round, I’ve got to get back on his case again. There’s potential for quite an exciting episode here, but he keeps fudging it.
The episodes earliest set piece features the Doctor and his friends in an imminently collapsing mountain. But much as with episode two, there’s just no urgency. Jo, Ky, Stubbs and Cotton all head off looking for the sole escape route – and they’re just ambling along like they’re on a particularly dull nature trail. This leaves the whole collapsing mountain thing deeply unconvincing. Without any real sense of danger, you’re left with a camera wobble and a sound effect whenever they remember to do one. You never get the sense that anyone’s in danger.
There are other things that are badly done – the first appearance of Sondergaard, for example, has all the characters saying ‘what is that thing’ or words to the effect, and then acting all shocked when he reveals himself to be human. This would be fine, if he doesn’t blatantly look like a man in a radiation suit from the second you see him. Then there’s a weird special effect camera that’s designed to have an elongated angle that’s put on straightforward shots for no clear reason.
Most annoyingly of all, there’s the cliffhanger. Now, I find Family Guy much more annoying than My Family, because the former has the potential to be good, even great, and doesn’t really do it – the latter’s just not something I like from the get go. And it’s the same with this cliffhanger – it’s annoying, because it’s about an inch or two away from greatness. With a countdown in the background, and the Marshall’s men lurking in the background, there’s a genuine sense of it all rushing to a head… and then it’s just fumbled. The staging of the Marshall ambushing Varan’s rebels is so ineptly staged it resembles nothing less than an amateur company’s desperation improvisation. They all seem unsure what to do, cramming themselves up next to each other in the tiniest space, with no one quite timing it right. Then we have Varan finding his mark and attacking unconvincingly, much as the Marshall does in response. It’s only at this point that it gets good again, with the slow motion effects of Varan getting sucked into space, set against the struggles of the others and the launch of the missiles, has a genuinely powerful impact. It’s just a shame it’s a mess getting there.
Equally, though, there are writing problems. The revelation of what the Doctor’s tablets mean in particular. Not because of what they say, but the sense that this otherwise well put together hook for the story seems stupidly illogical in hindsight. The box is intended for Ky – but for no obvious reason, as he can’t read the tablets. They’re then taken to Sondergaard who gives the Doctor a few hints – because he can’t really understand them either. Eventually the Doctor figures it out. Great. Wouldn’t there have been an easier way to pass this message on? Surely the message is for the Doctor himself. And is there any reason why it had to be in the form of a code? Unless the Timelords just wanted to give him an adventure (I suppose it could be viewed as a loophole in the ‘no-interference’ thing – when pressed the claim can be made that no help was sent, just a couple of Sudoku’s and a Codebreaker).
But I still think it’s outweighed by the good. The cast are, almost, pretty good to a man. OK, sometimes the characters are a little one note (I’m looking at you Marshall) but the actor’s do what they need to do. I like John Hollis as Sondergaard, though the part’s a little generic. The Afrikaans accent is a nice touch, if a little disconcerting – apparently there was an attempt to have different accents in order to make it feel multi-cultural. But up until this point, we’ve only dealt with accents we regularly hear in the show anyway – heck, even Jaegar’s Germanic tones feel like standard mad scientist.
And I think the story remains strong. It seems to me that one reason this story isn’t popular is the fact that it isn’t a plot driven story, per se. The villain doesn’t really have a grand plan or objective, there aren’t any real plot markers being switched on and off. What it is instead is character driven. The story has a vague premise (mutation as part of a natural cycle) against which is sets a wide range of warring factions and just sets them off. It sees how various characters – all of whom have believable and comprehensible motivations, ordinary motivations rather than domination of the universe – impact on each other. The closest story I can think of to it in structural terms is, amazingly, Caves of Androzani. The Mutants isn’t as complex as that script, but it’s storyline is propelled by the interaction of its cast in the same way, and as a result it has the same epic tragic feel – every character’s fate is determined by who they are, by actions and decisions on a very personal level. This is why I think suggestions this story is padded are missing the point. Because it’s not a case of random fight scenes and characters fill out a painfully thin plot – The Mutants is a story where the plot is merely a hook to get a lot of disparate characters to come into conflict. The padding is the point.
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#688 1 Apr 2008, 3:55 pm
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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An enjoyable and well written review, as always. I've always had a liking for The Mutants. Sure, it looks cheap and a bit murky but it rattles along at a good pace. There's certainly nothing objectively terrible about it compared to aspects of The Time Monster.
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#689 2 Apr 2008, 11:56 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutnts 5:
It’s an odd episode here. A lot of things the previous episodes did badly, this does well. And a lot of things the previous episodes did well, this does badly.
The central set piece of the episode is Jo and her gang escaping the Marshall’s imprisonment and being chased through the ship. And hallelujah, it’s actually directed with a sense of urgency and pace. It’s exciting, it’s fun… but, four episodes in, it’s the first bit of clear padding, standard capture/escape/capture stuff. And it’s not the only bit.
For example, I’m struggling to see what the point of Sondergaard is, other than to give the Doctor someone to talk to. When he was introduced, it felt like he was going to be a device to push the story off somewhere new, but in reality he’s just a sounding board. And that’s a shame.
You see, we’ve kind of figured out where the story’s heading now, and this episode’s only real function is to mark time until the conclusion and confrontation can be reached. For most of the time it’s concealed relatively well (the sideplot of the Doctor working to clear Solos of poison is a logical step given the circumstances), but we’ve got to the point where we really need to be moving into the endgame now – all the questions are answered, let’s finish this. I suppose it had to happen eventually, but it’s a shame to see the writing slide this close to the finishing line.
Still, some of the rest of it’s still going well – the plot remains interesting and low-key. It was good to see the old line about ‘only obeying orders’ mentioned here, because it does emphasise what’s going on (much as does Stubbs basically having to hold off his mates during the fire fight). The story is driven by politics and character. The Marshall is nothing more or less than a political tyrant clinging to rule, motivated by simple greed and ego. If I’m honest, I think he could do with a touch more menace. He’s so clearly barking mad, and what he’s asking people to do is so clearly evil, that you kind of wonder why people are obeying him. Blind obedience seems to be the answer implied, but I’m not totally convinced that’s enough. Either the Overlords have to agree with him, or they have to be afraid, and there’s no real sense of which they’re motivated by. Still, there is at least historical precedent, which could be the point.
It’s still fun, then, but I’m glad there’s only one episode left, cos I don’t think it can sustain much more.
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#690 2 Apr 2008, 9:27 pm
Borgduck
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The Mutnts 5:
It’s an odd episode here. A lot of things the previous episodes did badly, this does well. And a lot of things the previous episodes did well, this does badly.
The central set piece of the episode is Jo and her gang escaping the Marshall’s imprisonment and being chased through the ship. And hallelujah, it’s actually directed with a sense of urgency and pace. It’s exciting, it’s fun… but, four episodes in, it’s the first bit of clear padding, standard capture/escape/capture stuff. And it’s not the only bit.
For example, I’m struggling to see what the point of Sondergaard is, other than to give the Doctor someone to talk to. When he was introduced, it felt like he was going to be a device to push the story off somewhere new, but in reality he’s just a sounding board. And that’s a shame.
You see, we’ve kind of figured out where the story’s heading now, and this episode’s only real function is to mark time until the conclusion and confrontation can be reached. For most of the time it’s concealed relatively well (the sideplot of the Doctor working to clear Solos of poison is a logical step given the circumstances), but we’ve got to the point where we really need to be moving into the endgame now – all the questions are answered, let’s finish this. I suppose it had to happen eventually, but it’s a shame to see the writing slide this close to the finishing line.
Still, some of the rest of it’s still going well – the plot remains interesting and low-key. It was good to see the old line about ‘only obeying orders’ mentioned here, because it does emphasise what’s going on (much as does Stubbs basically having to hold off his mates during the fire fight). The story is driven by politics and character. The Marshall is nothing more or less than a political tyrant clinging to rule, motivated by simple greed and ego. If I’m honest, I think he could do with a touch more menace. He’s so clearly barking mad, and what he’s asking people to do is so clearly evil, that you kind of wonder why people are obeying him. Blind obedience seems to be the answer implied, but I’m not totally convinced that’s enough. Either the Overlords have to agree with him, or they have to be afraid, and there’s no real sense of which they’re motivated by. Still, there is at least historical precedent, which could be the point.
It’s still fun, then, but I’m glad there’s only one episode left, cos I don’t think it can sustain much more.
I think Sondergaard is a great Prog Rock track, Novalis could do no wrong.
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#691 24 Apr 2008, 1:34 pm
ianzpotter
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Re: Day by Day
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It's been a while since The Mutants for me, but one thing I recall is that like some other Baker and Martin shows it's really well geared up to the series-serial format. The episodes pretty much stand up as being about one thing every week as well as joining up to make a larger whole. For example the whole Earth judges bit (with their Acheson proto-Time Lord look) is, as I recall it, a one episode job.
The most obvious example is the Invisible Enemy which is pretty much a different situation every episode- Titan/Bi Al and its attack/Inside the Brain/ Oh hang on back to Titan, blow it all up.
They're much better shows if you watch the episodes one at a time, and probably much better for the general audience as a result, even if it does sometimes mean the cliffhangers and resolutions can be a bit on/off.
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#692 24 Apr 2008, 7:09 pm
amancuso
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Burlington, New Jersey
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Re: Day by Day
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conclusion please?!
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Whoever thinks of a screwdriver and says "this could be more sonic"?
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#693 25 Apr 2008, 12:02 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Mutants 6:
Crikey, it's been ages since I watched this one. Hope I can remember anything...
Well, firstly, it's a gloriously crammed episode. I've said before, probably in this very thread, that sometimes final episodes can write themselves - all you need is to put enough threads in the previous episodes that you just have to tie them all off and resolve them. Amazingly, the Mutants tries to squeeze in a few more - with the Doctor first blackmailed to back the Marshall, then free to speak the truth, then the Mutt's arrival changing the Investigators position, then the Investigator himself is betrayed... it's jammed to the gills. OK, the story did tread water a little in the last episode, but it's making up for that now. The plot shifts in new directions practically every scene, and once again, it's all rooted in the themes of the story - politics and perception. You get the sense that Baker and Martin are really pulling out the stops. This episode is all hell breaking loose - albeit, in a quiet and restrained manner. Everything is reaching a head, which is exactly how a story built around character should end. There's a genuine sense of it all coming together, leaving it quite an exciting episode - though again, a quiet and restrained exciting episode.
Particularly of note are the fate of Jaegar and the Marshall. Both are hoist on their own petards, which is always a dramatically satisfying result. Jaegar is killed by his own unpleasant experiments and the Marshall by one of the Mutants he tried to destroy - just think how dull it would have been if someone had just rocked up and shot him. In deed, this entire episode is almost about the Marshall pushing it too far and effectively asking to be killed off. It's the episode in which he switches from misguided nutter to just 'nutter'. His betrayal of the Investigator is entirely about his increasing lack of perspective and judgement. It's something of a shame that the character never really is quite rational as I think this would have a greater impact - again, going back to the classical tragedy motif, it would be the story of a man who's fatal flaw was a lack of perspective. Who starts with the best of intentions and increasingly forgets why he's doing anything, misses that he's actually turned evil (something I've often felt is potentially true of the most legendary dictators and tyrants of our time - the who 'absolute power' thing). As it is, he's always fairly mad, which does weaken the credibility of the story (as I said last time, why do people follow him? Heck, how did he even get the job in the first place?)
There are problems - Sondergaard feels as redundant as ever, there's a little too much escape/capture going on, the Doctor solves the mystery far too easily and the Marshall getting his enemy to work for him remains a daft idea... but generally speaking, it's a superb episode that answers every questions it's posed, and ups the stakes til it reaches a gorgeous ending that works in a beautifully inevitable and neat manner, ultimately resolved in the way it's been told - by the interaction of character. The whole thing comes together ending in a glorious whole.
Recommended.
The Sea Devils
23 Feb 2008, 12:32 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 1:
One of the pleasures of working your way through the series is the way it surprises you. I don't think I've watched the Sea Devils since it was repeated on BBC2 some where in the mid nineties. In my head it was a lame, over-extended rewrite of the Silurians that added nothing new. It might still turn out like that, I suppose, but to my great surprise and delight episode one of this story is properly excellent.
The charm of this episode is, mainly, in the mass of incidental detail. There's an awful lot of plot to get through, yet the script constantly takes the time to add throw away lines that enrich the episode. For example, there's a lovely moment at the start when Trenchard complains that the Doctor and Jo are late, and Jo says they were held up with a little glance at the Doctor. It's not explained, it's just thrown away. But these sort of moments manage to imply that the story exists in its own world. There's a school of thought in writing that every sentence, every word, has to have a point. It's very true, but to my mind it's often misunderstood. People will cut anything that isn't neccessary to tell the story, and it leaves something shallow and rushed. Sometimes the entire point of a line or action is that it doesn't have a point. It's there to improve pace, to give the script colour and life. Cut everything but story and you end up with something that has no life beyond that. This little reference to something unseen implies clearly that the story has been going before we join it, meaning that we feel we've entered into an actual world, involving us, rather than dipping into a shallow pool. And the episode is full of little moments like this. Incidental characters like the boatman are given nice little parts. It all adds up. Even sequences that appear to merely be jokes add, most noticeably in the Clangers sequence. It immediately tells us that Trenchard underestimates the Master, and the Master over-estimates Trenchard (his contemptuous reaction to Trenchard missing his joke also underlines his lack of contrition more than his slightly contrived laughing fit when the Doctor leaves). Furthermore, there's also some lovely characterisation, with Trenchard being the most deftly sketched three dimensional figure the series has had for a while.
That's not to say the surface isn't good either. The initial mystery of the story is subtly laid in, after the slightly obvious opening sequence, built carefully, first as an aside from Trenchard that the Master then emphasises the importance of, with the eventual investigation turning up shortly afterwards. It's low key, which is fair enough given that we already have a good idea what's happened to the boats, but it still hooks you in, proving that a story doesn't need grand theatrics to grab the interest. The episode is a definite slow burner, but it firmly establishes premise and character. And the dialogue is gorgeous - the scene between the Master, the Doctor and Jo is an absolute delight, witty and fun, probably the best scene the Master's had to date. The casual bonhomie is a nice touch, and I think it's these sort of scenes that cements the Master as the Doctor's arch-enemy.
A corker.
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#662 23 Feb 2008, 2:19 pm
Jeffster
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Re: Day by Day
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Good to see you're back on the review trail! I agree with you about Sea Devils 1. Great episode, and to me the story stays good and gets even better in the final part.
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#663 24 Feb 2008, 6:21 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 2:
Well, another rather enjoyable episode. Once again, the joy is in the detail - Trenchard is coming over as a nicely well rounded character (his golf obssession, in particular, is such a pointless bit of information that it hugely grounds him as a real person), the episode is filled with neat little gags (such as the Doctor's gizmo exploding seconds after he praises it). All irrelevant, but all much to the benefit of the story. If you're looking for a way to cut a script down, dropping the gags is one of the first thought that crosses your mind, because they're inevitably not related to the plot. It's equall inevitably a mistake to do, as humour remains a vital factor in getting the audience on your side. We warm to Trenchard more than the similar characters in stories like The Silurians, because he's a little bit daft, a little bit silly, a little bit real. You'd be happy enough to spend time with him in real life (albeit rolling your eyes on a regular basis) which is more than can be said for a lot of Who characters.
There are a couple of flaws with this episode however. Firstly, I can't help but feel it misses a trick with the fort sequnces - a nicely claustrophobic environment, anda set up that feels like it could be the basis of a mini adventure all of its own - the Doctor and Jo trapped in a building with an aggressive armed monster, having to rely on their wits to survive. Whilst there's an element of this, it's rushed through (an oddity for a six parter), with the Sea Devil dealt with in about two minutes. Given that they're supposed to spend the night on the fort, this seems an odd choice. Rather than a tense drama of survival, they're only obstacle is the lack of a boat - a mild annoyance at best. Still, this sequence does give a lovely funny moment with the Sea Devil and the Doctor giving each other a mutual double take when they first meet. Though on the downside, there are logic problems with this: Firstly, the Sea Devil is aggressive enough to fire on sight - yet at the start of the episode it's clearly following the Doctor and co. around. When we next see it, it's casually wandering around the fort as if it doesn't have a care in the world and seems surprised to see him. The logic here's more than a little unclear. Is it attacking if it's afraid and has been seen? Does it just want to kill? Heck, what's it even doing on the fort anyway? If it's planning on killing everyone on board, why's it nip off? Needed a quick loo break (actually, that would fit the 'caught out' feel of the meeting).
Secondly, you have another in the long line of scenes where the Doctor magically figures out who he's up against. He sees one turtle faced psycho, and immediately is able to pinpoint that they're relations of the Silurians/Eocenes/Aggedor, what woke them up and what they want. It's an impressive skill, but it's mystifying.
The only other problem with the episode is that it doesn't really make an effort to link the Sea Devil half and the Master half of the story. Sure, the Master is aware of the sunken ships in the first episode, but that was one line quite some time ago. As it is, there's no real sense in this episode that the two threads are linked, and that leaves it looking a little restless. One moment the Doctor's all concerned about the boats, then he's rushing off to Trenchard. What it needs is a little line from the Doctor indicating that he's realised this all happening at the same time isn't coincidence. Then it would tie together a bit better.
But it's easy to ignore these points because the episode as a whole is just so much fun. The Master's at his diabolical best (it's becoming clear how he's manipulated Trenchard) even if his hypnotic powers are getting more and more useless by the day. There's some good monster action, lots of humour and it ends with a witty swordfight. What more could you want?
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#664 27 Feb 2008, 6:00 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The biggest problem remains a complete lack of an explanation for what he was doing inventing the Keller Machine in the first place (it plays absolutely no part in the missile capture, and only features in the Masters plans when he kills the two delegates…
Having recently rewatched it, it struck me that the Master's reaction on being told about the revolt at the prison seems one of being taken slightly aback. He hasn't recruited Mailer at that point, and indeed has a slightly hard time proving his bona fides in support for the revolt when he arrives (apparently in a rushed change of plan).
Thus, it seems to me that disrupting the peace conference by killing the lead delegates was his sole plan at the start of the story. The missile doesn't figure until he learns of it during, or just before, the phone-tapping we see him perform outside UNIT temporary HQ (something he'd be doing to check his disruption of the conference was going to plan. Hearing about the missile, and finding that its movement route runs close to the prison, is a coincidence and a bonus).
A Master of improvisation, then, or at least of adapting his initial plans after the Doctor and the prison revolt - not to mention the Mind Parasite's newly found independence - rendered it useless!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
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#665 27 Feb 2008, 11:24 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 3:
Huzzah! An episode entirely composed of padding!
That's not necessarily a bad thing though. As I've said before, there are many different types of padding in this world. There is good padding and there is bad padding. And most importantly of all, this episode takes the time to make the padding fun. And for an episode in which practically nothing happens, it passes the time remarkably quickly.
Not to sound like a stuck record, but the devil is once more in the detail (what an apt cliche). Loads of tiny character moments add up to make the episode speed by - the cheery 'time for a quick one' from Trenchard to Hart, the Doctor and Jo politely offering each other the chance to head out of the cell. And some more great acting from Delgado. Whilst I'm not always the biggest fan of Pertwee as an actor (well, as the Doctor, really, love him in most other things) it's hard to deny that RD gets the best out of him, and their confrontation scene, whilst pointless, is great fun to watch. And it's really nice to see Jo being put in the position of rescuing the Doctor, especially when it's played with such an appealing Boys Own joy. There are problems (the final revelation of what Trenchard thinks the Master is doing is, frankly, ridiculous - it's unthinkable that they'd put someone that credulous in charge of someone so dangerous. And I really can't imagine how the Master brought it up in conversation) but by and large this is engaging and funny. Heck, even the insanely long cliffhanger reprise that's clearly that length to fill in time is a sequence you're perfectly happy to rewatch!
It's just a shame that the story doesn't really seem to have started yet. For something called 'The Sea Devils' there's been precious little Sea Devil activity in it so far. From half way through episode two, their plotline has been kind of ignored in favour of Master based hijinks. Bar a couple of mentions here and there, you don't really get the sense that there's actually a plot here. This becomes particularly obvious with the debut of the submarine Hart sends to search for the creatures (a naval vessel seemingly only manned by people who are going to be famous-ish actors in the future). When they get attacked, it's very reminiscent of the opening moments of the story. It's a standard hook. The plot simply hasn't arrived yet.
The stuff on the fort is, effectively, a mini-adventure that doesn't really relate to anything else in the story. And we've now spent an episode and a half focusing on the subplot, the Master. But there's no real sense of what the actual 'story' is. What's it about? Where's it going? Nowhere yet. The submarine stuff feels like the opening, and you do get the sense that it's going to start doing something soon. And that's obviously a good thing, as whilst the padding is fun, there's only so much we can take!
Incidentally, it does strike me that this episode's cliffhanger's iconic status in kid's memories does it massive favours. It seems to me to be just as nonsensical as the legendary Dragonfire 1, but no one ever says so. The Doctor and Jo run onto a beach with some rope, despite the fact they should clearly be able to see a car of guards approaching from one side and a mine field on the other. Are they planning to swim for it, or what? Very odd.
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#666 29 Feb 2008, 11:51 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 4:
One problem that turns up occasionally in Doctor Who fiction is the concept without a plot. Someone’s had a strong idea for a setting, or a monster, or a sequel. And one of the problems with having one of these ideas is that they don’t inherently lend themselves to a plot. It’s all very well thinking ‘wouldn’t it be great to set a story in an alien launderette’ or ‘I know how I can have Yartek survive’, for example, but when you actually come to write the story you’ve got to have more to it than that. It’s a problem with concept based ideas rather than story based ideas – once you have a stunning location you’ve got to fit a storyline to it. And that’s easier said than done (mind you, if you think about it, everything is easier to say than do – even saying something as simple as ‘I walk around a bit’ is easier than walking around a bit. But I digress). I recall that a lot of the NA’s suffered this problem. They tended to throw in a murder mystery, a solid non-location-specific type of storyline, but it’s always a little unsatisfying.
So it is with The Sea Devils, a concept story. The concept at the heart of the story is ‘let’s have underwater Silurians and do ocean stuff with the navy’. But, as with a lot of sequels, it’s hard to add in a plot to that. Because the obvious plot was done two years go in The Silurians.
That’s not to say there’s not a lot to enjoy here. This episode in particular features a corking action set piece with the Sea Devil raid on the prison. It’s genuinely tense and exciting (though it does help that the story’s held off on using the monsters heavily for quite a while) and does feel like it’s finally kicking the story off. But as I say, it’s a set piece. The story is extremely well remembered, and I think that’s because it’s got an excellent way with the set piece. In this episode alone we have Sea Devils rising, iconically, from the sea, both singly and in groups; the Doctor and his mine field gambit; and the Sea Devil looming into view through the Doctor’s porthole. All striking, memorable images, but none of them tied to a really striking and memorable script.
I don’t want to suggest it’s style over substance. With the Sea Devils violent from the get go, it’s a less smart and sophisticated beast than Silurians in terms of issues and morally complexity, sure, but that shouldn’t be taken to suggest it’s a dumbed down version of the former. I’d argue that the script itself, the characterisation and the performances are easily superior to the former. More than anything else, the direction excels, clearest in the way the sequence involving the death of Trenchard is handled with admirable subtlety and restraint. His off screen demise is a wonderfully mature touch for an action series.
No, the best comparison is another sequel that abandons the original’s psychological take for dumb but fun action – Aliens. I may have said this before, but there’s a school of thought that a good sequel has to tread a different path to the original. Nah, if you’re going to do something totally different, why do a sequel? It has to be something both the same and different. And to its credit, The Sea Devils does that. I just wish it had a bit more of an actual story to justify it.
I realise I haven’t talked about the actual episode much. That’s cos not much goes on. Much as with the last one, it gets to the end astonishingly quickly when you consider how little actually goes on. Some of it’s blatant padding (just how much diving bell action do we need?), but as before it’s fun padding. I'm enjoying it.
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#667 1 Mar 2008, 2:40 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
but that shouldn’t be taken to suggest it’s a dumbed down version of the former. I’d argue that the script itself, the characterisation and the performances are easily superior to the former.
Explain yourself, sir!
Watched The Sea Devils recently for the first time in a few years and found it really rather dull. Trenchard's good fun but otherwise the supporting characters are a bland sort and the set pieces cry out "set pieces" more those of The Silurians, IMO. And I don't know why but the Sea Devils really leapt out at me as being really rubbish monsters. They're just so obviously rubber and fake. Maybe it's the googly eyes or the fact that they can't lip-synch, but the Silurians looked immeasurably better.
Shame, really, as it's filmed in my home city and I've been to a few of the locations...
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#668 2 Mar 2008, 1:41 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Before I start, a big thank-you to Dorney for restarting his reviews - I look forward to rewatching the Sea Devils in its shiny new shiny disk form (shiny) very soon! Day of the Daleks to get through next for me; I hope it doesn't take me a year!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thot gor
You're going through hell! & I thought I was the only one I started with the Ice Warriors (which isnt bad but remained unloved in my collection for years!) then I watched the Sea Devils all in one night which comes as a surprise since it too was unloved for years!
I have recently finished Inferno in just a couple of nights but the real challenge is yet to come......episodes 3 & 4 of Android Invasion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thot gor
I've watched the War Games in entire sittings on more than one occasion, can't get enough of it
That's why I can't believe you say Inferno is one of the "most hated" stories (hated by fandom that is). It's one of the most-loved stories actually. Watching in order, War Games and Inferno are both weighty, suspenseful classics that could teach many a modern drama series about what "grittiness" really means.
Oh, and Ambassadors of Death is actually the least-liked-by-fandom story from Season 7, and The Space Pirates the most-hated story from around that time. I love both - all the stories from 1969-1970 have superb atmosphere and mature, appealing characters, only Spearhead From Spaceis a bit of a duffer but at least it has Pertwee doing a marvellous Troughon impression for 3 or 4 episodes.
Android Invasion is a superb Avengers pastiche, as is Seeds of Doom. I'd rate them both far above drivel like Planet of Evil (saved only by the superb Frederick Jaeger) or Pyramids of Mars (not really saved by anything). Though the Hinchcliffe will always be a favourite of mine. Eldrad must live!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by AlMiles; 2 Mar 2008 at 1:45 pm.
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#669 2 Mar 2008, 1:57 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I prefer "Wheel" before Moonbase not only because the humans in Moonbase have been taught about the Cybermen (and those in Wheel haven't) but also because the technology is much clunkier in Wheel (note the bulky spacesuits compared to Moonbase)
I've just noticed that they're the same spacesuits from The Tenth Planet! Old tech. My placing of Wheel a few decades earlier than The Moonbase seems vindicated
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#670 2 Mar 2008, 2:23 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Day of the Daleks 3:
It struck me as odd that for all the equating of the Pertwee years with UNIT, there's precious little of them as of about this episode. There's only one full scale UNIT story left in the Pertwee years (Dinosaurs), and that's one less than Tom Baker gets.
Got to admit the Brigadier is a laugh at the stripshow in Spiders, though.. (Brig: "Very athletic. Must adapt some of those moves for the men." Doctor (drily): "They'll take some adapting.")... Ahem. Anyway, Secretive Bus (I think it was) wanted you to let him know the exact point at which the Brig changed from competent military commander to amusing(?) buffoon, having just reached Day of the Daleks I think I've decided where it falls for me.
In the final scene of Inferno (this could have been done to contrast him with the Brigade-Leader. However somehow the buffoonery stuck. Was it the departure of Camfield or the influence of Letts, or both?
There's a tiny resurgence of commanding competence for a few brief moments in The Mind of Evil (the planning and execution of the invasion of Stangmoor Prison, not to mention the "nick [courtney] of time" saving of the Doctor's life) but it's a last gasp. In Terror of the Autons, Claws of Axos, Colony in Space 1&6 and The Daemons he is worse than useless and accomplishes nothing but disgruntled huffing and bellicose barking - Blackadder's General Melchett looks like Monty in comparison.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by AlMiles; 2 Mar 2008 at 2:25 pm.
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#671 2 Mar 2008, 4:22 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
Explain yourself, sir!
Watched The Sea Devils recently for the first time in a few years and found it really rather dull. Trenchard's good fun but otherwise the supporting characters are a bland sort and the set pieces cry out "set pieces" more those of The Silurians, IMO. And I don't know why but the Sea Devils really leapt out at me as being really rubbish monsters. They're just so obviously rubber and fake. Maybe it's the googly eyes or the fact that they can't lip-synch, but the Silurians looked immeasurably better.
Shame, really, as it's filmed in my home city and I've been to a few of the locations...
Well, I do agree on the set pieces, as I think I've implied - I reckon the reason they feel like set pieces is because they simply aren't tied to a plot.
I suppose what I mean about the characterisation is that it's smaller and more realistic than Silurians. The guest cast in that story are all hugely entertaining, but they're all arguably cut from the same action/adventure cloth, and are larger than life scenery chewers. Hart and the submarine crew all come across as real people in an adventure scenario, underplayed. They're less fun, though, sure.
The main problem with this story remains the lack of an actual plot though.
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#672 2 Mar 2008, 10:45 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Got Day of the Daleks on now. 22 year old BBC videotape release, has pinsharp picture despite numerous plays (the cassette weighs about as much as a housebrick). Haven't spotted Bus's "F... yes" at Jo's knickerflash yet, but I do recall the most blatant knickerflash as if it was yesterday - that was when I discovered my VCR's slow motion control, all those years ago...
The Daleks may be a bit un-Daleky but that's an occupational hazard of 5 years of neglect - in any case, with their primitive "time machines" and rubbish plans these are clearly from an even earlier era than those in "The Chase" and the other Hartnell and Troughton stories where they can stride the timelines in their DARDIS and bamboozle the Doctor with their spectacularly accurate android duplicate or their silver-beaker-bedecked conker-of-death. About the only thing they did right with their primitive TT machines is get hold of some BBC publicity stills of the 60s Doctors - they're too inept to even capture the Missing Episodes!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by AlMiles; 2 Mar 2008 at 10:53 pm.
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#673 10 Mar 2008, 3:55 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 5:
First of all, five episodes in, I suppose I do have to mention the music. One of the most notorious aspects of the serial… I dunno, I like it. It’s quirky, it’s not actually bad, it’s just different. And I like that. It gives the story a genuine identity of its own. You wouldn’t want it every week, sure, but fairly obviously you don’t get it every week. So what’s the problem. Moving on.
OK, I suppose I’m just going to have to resign myself to the fact that this story really isn’t going to have much of a plot – well, not more than the slightest breath of one. More a series of confrontations and attacks based around a central premise.
To be fair, that’s not necessarily a major problem – that’s basically the plot of Zulu right there – but there does still need to be more to it than the odd confrontation. There needs to be escalation, and variation. And most importantly, a sense that it’s going somewhere. We’ve finally got this to a degree in this episode, but it doesn’t quite excuse the previous four’s lack of purpose. What we have is much like the first Spider-Man film, where I couldn’t help but want the Green Goblin to have some sort of actual purpose, some goal. I suppose the Silurians didn’t really have much story (other than the general fight against humanity) but the story constantly shifted, what with the internal power struggle of the Silurians themselves, the shifting tensions between them and the power station staff, and the tensions between that staff, an escalating series of mini-plots. Whereas the Sea Devils are disappointingly one note. They start off killing humans, they end killing humans. We know they’re behind everything and what they are straight away. There’s never any real reason for anything they do (why does it escalate in this episode? Why only attack now, what were they waiting for? Why don’t the kill the submarine crew?) So where it’s go. Even their relationship with the Master isn’t clear – for all their talk of him being their friend, the relationship basically amounts to him getting them to rescue him, after which he does seemingly nothing at all other than hang around their base and say ‘kill all the humans’ once in a while. Why do the Sea Devils give a stuff? What do they owe him?
Of course, it’s only when I write that that I wonder if I’ve been viewing the story incorrectly. You see, the other way to look at it is that maybe the story isn’t really about the Sea Devils at all, or at least the first four episodes. I know that’s the title and everything, but if you view it as a story first and foremost about the Master suddenly it makes a lot more sense. A four part story about the escape of the Master, followed by a related two parter – or maybe a three part Master escape story in the middle of a three part Sea Devil story… oh, what the heck, it doesn’t really work. It just can’t make up its mind about what it wants to be. It’s a lot of ideas and narrative functions, it just doesn’t have a plot to hang it on.
That’s a shame, because now we’ve finally got to the end of the story, there is suddenly a bit more purpose and plot – albeit a remarkably simple one. Monsters are annoyed with humans. They decide to kill them. And that’s pretty much it. You can’t help but wonder if this story could have worked a bit better with a bit more going on upstairs.
There’s a lot of nice stuff in the incidentals – the Sea Devils look gorgeous and dramatic during their advance (though they’re embarrassingly bad at opening and closing their mouths whilst talking). It’s becoming the tiniest bit clear with the appearance of the civil servant Walker that Hulke’s using a bit of a cheat on characterisation – giving each new person one specific characteristic and using that as an identifier (in Walker’ case, food). But it does work quite well. Walker does feel less of a one note caricature than previous civil servants such as Chorley and Masters, though again I think a lot of that is down to sympathetic direction from Briant pitching these people as more real than a lot of the stock figures of the Pertwee years (this seems to be something of a stock in trade for Briant – only his second gig on the show this, and his first – Colony in Space – has a similar honest quality). Equally solid is Donald Sumpter’s Ridgeway – a nicely drawn take on a fairly stock figure, managing to feel individual despite their being little to the part, and heroic even when shooting down a Sea Devil against the Doctor’s orders (and in a similar touch to Walker, having a nervous twitch that turns up once an episode, adding the inference that a lot of his bravery is bravado). And I rather love the submarine crew, who only get about six lines between them, but get proper personalities and identities. They’re never generic.
Nonetheless, it’s a generally flawed tale, which simply doesn’t have a story. But somehow – I still kind of like it. It’s well written and performed, full of effective images and it’s hard to actively dislike. Something of a style over substance story, the good work on the surface stuff is so enjoyable you kind of forget it’s covering up for a gaping emptiness below (that’s almost an ocean metaphor). Is that a bad thing? I don’t know. It doesn’t feel like a bad story. The devil’s in the detail.
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#674 12 Mar 2008, 12:56 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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I didn't notice Walker's nervous twitch, more complete physical cowardice, and a strangely bloodshot eye from halfway through his appearance!
On to part 6:
Does the Master always carry a mask around with him, and why on Earth is he left pretty much alone in the hovercraft, even if he appears to be collapsed? At least he gets a soaking in the end, as the 'craft turns round and water blasts throuogh the open cockpit door in front of him - teehee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#675 13 Mar 2008, 12:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I didn't notice Walker's nervous twitch, more complete physical cowardice, and a strangely bloodshot eye from halfway through his appearance!
Ah, I didn't mean Walker had a twitch - I meant to compare Ridgeway (who has the twitch) to Walker also having one distinct trait (food obsession) and in deed Trenchard (golf).
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#676 13 Mar 2008, 6:44 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Does the Master always carry a mask around with him, and why on Earth is he left pretty much alone in the hovercraft, even if he appears to be collapsed? At least he gets a soaking in the end, as the 'craft turns round and water blasts throuogh the open cockpit door in front of him - teehee.
To be fair, he isn't left alone - there's clearly someone else with him, because that's the person he uses as a replacement.
To be less fair, he doesn't always carry a mask around with him - he has to be carrying two. One of his own face, and one of somebody else's. One to put on the unconscious man, one to wear himself.
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#677 13 Mar 2008, 7:28 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 6:
I dunno – for such a fun story, this doesn’t half fall apart in its last episode.
Practically everything is a little bit daft. The big set piece – the fight between the navy and the Sea Devils seems to be a competition to see who can fall over in the silliest way (I mean, one of the Sea Devils literally somersaults to death – what the hell?). And even if that wasn’t there, we’d be left with the spectacle of the rather contrived attempts to get in as much of the stuff they’ve borrowed off the proper Navy as often as possible (couple of random boats, an overused hovercraft, the strange weapon Hart has a go with).
But beyond that, the plot has it’s moments of silliness too. We’re expected to believe that the Master has planned a device to resurrect the Sea Devils – and then seems to believe that the Doctor’s genuinely going to help him make it, without sabotage? And then when the Doctor does sabotage it, he stands around and waits for a few minutes as the Sea Devils writhe in agony, not barging past to switch it off as soon as possible, instead holding on until the goodies have escaped. And even then, believing the Doctor’s excuses about a minor problem with the wiring. Honestly, he’s behaving like a total idiot (and just how many times does he need to be betrayed by whoever he’s helping out before he realises it’s not the best way to approach these things?).
But that’s all right, because the Doctor’s just as much of an idiot at points here. When he’s rescued, he just leaves the Master in the hands of a random sailor with a gun. Cos there’s no way the Master can escape that one. It’s like he wants the challenge (it would also explain his moronic behaviour at the end of the episode).
Furthermore, after five episodes of good character work, we suddenly have the all round weirdness of Walker’s sudden cowardice. I don’t have a problem with the idea, more the way it just seems so forced and – well, I don’t want to say ‘hammy’, but I just have, so there you go.
I’m sorry, I really am, but it all falls apart. OK, it’s still well made enough to be enjoyable. But because the whole story’s had so little going on, there’s really very little it can do to finish. There’s no major plot to tie up, there’s no moral argument to resolve. It just sort of stops.
As a result, we have the really strange situation that after the famously tragic ending of Silurians, we get the Doctor taking the Brigadier’s role and just blowing the monsters up. It seems such a come down. Sure, the Sea Devil’s are much more shoot first ask questions later than the Silurians, but surely Walker’s supposed to have been in the wrong last week? Where’s the questioning, the regret? Surely the Doctor should be doing it reluctantly. I suppose we do get the faintest moment of that with the Doctor only switching the bomb on after the Sea Devil says it won’t back down (he does say ‘I’m sorry) – a very Tennant moment, it seems to me – but it feels like an afterthought. The Doctor doesn’t seem that fussed afterwards, and barely reacts to the blowing up of the base. It sort of works viewed only in its own context, but as a sequel to Silurians it feels a little underwhelming.
I suppose that sums up the story, really. Good enough fun, but nowhere near as interesting as its predecessor. It’s usual poll rating being higher than the prequel is surely indicative of how fandom picks the stories it likes – big moments, memorable images, that sort of thing. But rarely on strength of story.
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#678 13 Mar 2008, 7:35 pm
Jeffster
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Re: Day by Day
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I think you're nuts on this one, Dorney. The Sea Devils Episode Six might be the best concluding episode of any story that I've seen thus far. I dubbed it "The Shootout Followed By The Speedboat Chase Followed By Reversing the Polarity of the Neutron Flow Just In Time To Destroy The Sea Devils Base Before The Nuclear Strike By The Hungry Idiot Parliamentary Secretary But Let The Master Escape Using A Terrible Mask Trick" and frankly I don't know what more you could possibly want out of a conclusion!
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#679 13 Mar 2008, 7:47 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffster
I think you're nuts on this one, Dorney. The Sea Devils Episode Six might be the best concluding episode of any story that I've seen thus far. I dubbed it "The Shootout Followed By The Speedboat Chase Followed By Reversing the Polarity of the Neutron Flow Just In Time To Destroy The Sea Devils Base Before The Nuclear Strike By The Hungry Idiot Parliamentary Secretary But Let The Master Escape Using A Terrible Mask Trick" and frankly I don't know what more you could possibly want out of a conclusion!
Oh, I'm not denying it's fun. It's just empty.
And odd. To quote: "Reversing the Polarity of the Neutron Flow Just In Time To Destroy The Sea Devils Base Before The Nuclear Strike By The Hungry Idiot Parliamentary Secretary". So the Doctor blows them up - before someone else can blow them up? For all the story portrays Walker as a fool, doesn't he just want to do what the Doctor does?
I dunno - just after six episodes, I kind of want a better ending than 'he blows them up'. Though I may reverse this for Seeds of Doom.
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#680 14 Mar 2008, 5:16 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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I found it terribly lame that the Sea Devils (at the Master's behest - or was it the Doctor?) cleverly make it look like the depth charge attacks detroyed their base - sending debris and even two dead Sea Devils (volunteers, or accidentally killed earlier?) to the surface, convincing Walker et al that the attacks have succceeded and thereby cancelling the bombardment. Then, 2 minutes later, at the Master's behest, the Sea Devils send in a commando to raid HMS Seaspite - totally blowing their cover and proving their base is intact.
The Navy appear to forget where the base is, though, in the intervening ten minutes, thus preventing them from resuming the bombardment.
Just finished The Mutants - superbly paced, nice characters, situations and proper peril, and a beautiful-looking design classic. Music a bit "radiophonic" but nowhere near Malcolm Clarke's Sea Devils madness. So good that even my girlfriend sat down to watch it and said she "wanted to know what happens next" (perhaps she was just making sure it was going to end? Nah)...
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 1:
One of the pleasures of working your way through the series is the way it surprises you. I don't think I've watched the Sea Devils since it was repeated on BBC2 some where in the mid nineties. In my head it was a lame, over-extended rewrite of the Silurians that added nothing new. It might still turn out like that, I suppose, but to my great surprise and delight episode one of this story is properly excellent.
The charm of this episode is, mainly, in the mass of incidental detail. There's an awful lot of plot to get through, yet the script constantly takes the time to add throw away lines that enrich the episode. For example, there's a lovely moment at the start when Trenchard complains that the Doctor and Jo are late, and Jo says they were held up with a little glance at the Doctor. It's not explained, it's just thrown away. But these sort of moments manage to imply that the story exists in its own world. There's a school of thought in writing that every sentence, every word, has to have a point. It's very true, but to my mind it's often misunderstood. People will cut anything that isn't neccessary to tell the story, and it leaves something shallow and rushed. Sometimes the entire point of a line or action is that it doesn't have a point. It's there to improve pace, to give the script colour and life. Cut everything but story and you end up with something that has no life beyond that. This little reference to something unseen implies clearly that the story has been going before we join it, meaning that we feel we've entered into an actual world, involving us, rather than dipping into a shallow pool. And the episode is full of little moments like this. Incidental characters like the boatman are given nice little parts. It all adds up. Even sequences that appear to merely be jokes add, most noticeably in the Clangers sequence. It immediately tells us that Trenchard underestimates the Master, and the Master over-estimates Trenchard (his contemptuous reaction to Trenchard missing his joke also underlines his lack of contrition more than his slightly contrived laughing fit when the Doctor leaves). Furthermore, there's also some lovely characterisation, with Trenchard being the most deftly sketched three dimensional figure the series has had for a while.
That's not to say the surface isn't good either. The initial mystery of the story is subtly laid in, after the slightly obvious opening sequence, built carefully, first as an aside from Trenchard that the Master then emphasises the importance of, with the eventual investigation turning up shortly afterwards. It's low key, which is fair enough given that we already have a good idea what's happened to the boats, but it still hooks you in, proving that a story doesn't need grand theatrics to grab the interest. The episode is a definite slow burner, but it firmly establishes premise and character. And the dialogue is gorgeous - the scene between the Master, the Doctor and Jo is an absolute delight, witty and fun, probably the best scene the Master's had to date. The casual bonhomie is a nice touch, and I think it's these sort of scenes that cements the Master as the Doctor's arch-enemy.
A corker.
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#662 23 Feb 2008, 2:19 pm
Jeffster
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Re: Day by Day
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Good to see you're back on the review trail! I agree with you about Sea Devils 1. Great episode, and to me the story stays good and gets even better in the final part.
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#663 24 Feb 2008, 6:21 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 2:
Well, another rather enjoyable episode. Once again, the joy is in the detail - Trenchard is coming over as a nicely well rounded character (his golf obssession, in particular, is such a pointless bit of information that it hugely grounds him as a real person), the episode is filled with neat little gags (such as the Doctor's gizmo exploding seconds after he praises it). All irrelevant, but all much to the benefit of the story. If you're looking for a way to cut a script down, dropping the gags is one of the first thought that crosses your mind, because they're inevitably not related to the plot. It's equall inevitably a mistake to do, as humour remains a vital factor in getting the audience on your side. We warm to Trenchard more than the similar characters in stories like The Silurians, because he's a little bit daft, a little bit silly, a little bit real. You'd be happy enough to spend time with him in real life (albeit rolling your eyes on a regular basis) which is more than can be said for a lot of Who characters.
There are a couple of flaws with this episode however. Firstly, I can't help but feel it misses a trick with the fort sequnces - a nicely claustrophobic environment, anda set up that feels like it could be the basis of a mini adventure all of its own - the Doctor and Jo trapped in a building with an aggressive armed monster, having to rely on their wits to survive. Whilst there's an element of this, it's rushed through (an oddity for a six parter), with the Sea Devil dealt with in about two minutes. Given that they're supposed to spend the night on the fort, this seems an odd choice. Rather than a tense drama of survival, they're only obstacle is the lack of a boat - a mild annoyance at best. Still, this sequence does give a lovely funny moment with the Sea Devil and the Doctor giving each other a mutual double take when they first meet. Though on the downside, there are logic problems with this: Firstly, the Sea Devil is aggressive enough to fire on sight - yet at the start of the episode it's clearly following the Doctor and co. around. When we next see it, it's casually wandering around the fort as if it doesn't have a care in the world and seems surprised to see him. The logic here's more than a little unclear. Is it attacking if it's afraid and has been seen? Does it just want to kill? Heck, what's it even doing on the fort anyway? If it's planning on killing everyone on board, why's it nip off? Needed a quick loo break (actually, that would fit the 'caught out' feel of the meeting).
Secondly, you have another in the long line of scenes where the Doctor magically figures out who he's up against. He sees one turtle faced psycho, and immediately is able to pinpoint that they're relations of the Silurians/Eocenes/Aggedor, what woke them up and what they want. It's an impressive skill, but it's mystifying.
The only other problem with the episode is that it doesn't really make an effort to link the Sea Devil half and the Master half of the story. Sure, the Master is aware of the sunken ships in the first episode, but that was one line quite some time ago. As it is, there's no real sense in this episode that the two threads are linked, and that leaves it looking a little restless. One moment the Doctor's all concerned about the boats, then he's rushing off to Trenchard. What it needs is a little line from the Doctor indicating that he's realised this all happening at the same time isn't coincidence. Then it would tie together a bit better.
But it's easy to ignore these points because the episode as a whole is just so much fun. The Master's at his diabolical best (it's becoming clear how he's manipulated Trenchard) even if his hypnotic powers are getting more and more useless by the day. There's some good monster action, lots of humour and it ends with a witty swordfight. What more could you want?
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#664 27 Feb 2008, 6:00 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
The biggest problem remains a complete lack of an explanation for what he was doing inventing the Keller Machine in the first place (it plays absolutely no part in the missile capture, and only features in the Masters plans when he kills the two delegates…
Having recently rewatched it, it struck me that the Master's reaction on being told about the revolt at the prison seems one of being taken slightly aback. He hasn't recruited Mailer at that point, and indeed has a slightly hard time proving his bona fides in support for the revolt when he arrives (apparently in a rushed change of plan).
Thus, it seems to me that disrupting the peace conference by killing the lead delegates was his sole plan at the start of the story. The missile doesn't figure until he learns of it during, or just before, the phone-tapping we see him perform outside UNIT temporary HQ (something he'd be doing to check his disruption of the conference was going to plan. Hearing about the missile, and finding that its movement route runs close to the prison, is a coincidence and a bonus).
A Master of improvisation, then, or at least of adapting his initial plans after the Doctor and the prison revolt - not to mention the Mind Parasite's newly found independence - rendered it useless!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#665 27 Feb 2008, 11:24 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 3:
Huzzah! An episode entirely composed of padding!
That's not necessarily a bad thing though. As I've said before, there are many different types of padding in this world. There is good padding and there is bad padding. And most importantly of all, this episode takes the time to make the padding fun. And for an episode in which practically nothing happens, it passes the time remarkably quickly.
Not to sound like a stuck record, but the devil is once more in the detail (what an apt cliche). Loads of tiny character moments add up to make the episode speed by - the cheery 'time for a quick one' from Trenchard to Hart, the Doctor and Jo politely offering each other the chance to head out of the cell. And some more great acting from Delgado. Whilst I'm not always the biggest fan of Pertwee as an actor (well, as the Doctor, really, love him in most other things) it's hard to deny that RD gets the best out of him, and their confrontation scene, whilst pointless, is great fun to watch. And it's really nice to see Jo being put in the position of rescuing the Doctor, especially when it's played with such an appealing Boys Own joy. There are problems (the final revelation of what Trenchard thinks the Master is doing is, frankly, ridiculous - it's unthinkable that they'd put someone that credulous in charge of someone so dangerous. And I really can't imagine how the Master brought it up in conversation) but by and large this is engaging and funny. Heck, even the insanely long cliffhanger reprise that's clearly that length to fill in time is a sequence you're perfectly happy to rewatch!
It's just a shame that the story doesn't really seem to have started yet. For something called 'The Sea Devils' there's been precious little Sea Devil activity in it so far. From half way through episode two, their plotline has been kind of ignored in favour of Master based hijinks. Bar a couple of mentions here and there, you don't really get the sense that there's actually a plot here. This becomes particularly obvious with the debut of the submarine Hart sends to search for the creatures (a naval vessel seemingly only manned by people who are going to be famous-ish actors in the future). When they get attacked, it's very reminiscent of the opening moments of the story. It's a standard hook. The plot simply hasn't arrived yet.
The stuff on the fort is, effectively, a mini-adventure that doesn't really relate to anything else in the story. And we've now spent an episode and a half focusing on the subplot, the Master. But there's no real sense of what the actual 'story' is. What's it about? Where's it going? Nowhere yet. The submarine stuff feels like the opening, and you do get the sense that it's going to start doing something soon. And that's obviously a good thing, as whilst the padding is fun, there's only so much we can take!
Incidentally, it does strike me that this episode's cliffhanger's iconic status in kid's memories does it massive favours. It seems to me to be just as nonsensical as the legendary Dragonfire 1, but no one ever says so. The Doctor and Jo run onto a beach with some rope, despite the fact they should clearly be able to see a car of guards approaching from one side and a mine field on the other. Are they planning to swim for it, or what? Very odd.
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#666 29 Feb 2008, 11:51 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 4:
One problem that turns up occasionally in Doctor Who fiction is the concept without a plot. Someone’s had a strong idea for a setting, or a monster, or a sequel. And one of the problems with having one of these ideas is that they don’t inherently lend themselves to a plot. It’s all very well thinking ‘wouldn’t it be great to set a story in an alien launderette’ or ‘I know how I can have Yartek survive’, for example, but when you actually come to write the story you’ve got to have more to it than that. It’s a problem with concept based ideas rather than story based ideas – once you have a stunning location you’ve got to fit a storyline to it. And that’s easier said than done (mind you, if you think about it, everything is easier to say than do – even saying something as simple as ‘I walk around a bit’ is easier than walking around a bit. But I digress). I recall that a lot of the NA’s suffered this problem. They tended to throw in a murder mystery, a solid non-location-specific type of storyline, but it’s always a little unsatisfying.
So it is with The Sea Devils, a concept story. The concept at the heart of the story is ‘let’s have underwater Silurians and do ocean stuff with the navy’. But, as with a lot of sequels, it’s hard to add in a plot to that. Because the obvious plot was done two years go in The Silurians.
That’s not to say there’s not a lot to enjoy here. This episode in particular features a corking action set piece with the Sea Devil raid on the prison. It’s genuinely tense and exciting (though it does help that the story’s held off on using the monsters heavily for quite a while) and does feel like it’s finally kicking the story off. But as I say, it’s a set piece. The story is extremely well remembered, and I think that’s because it’s got an excellent way with the set piece. In this episode alone we have Sea Devils rising, iconically, from the sea, both singly and in groups; the Doctor and his mine field gambit; and the Sea Devil looming into view through the Doctor’s porthole. All striking, memorable images, but none of them tied to a really striking and memorable script.
I don’t want to suggest it’s style over substance. With the Sea Devils violent from the get go, it’s a less smart and sophisticated beast than Silurians in terms of issues and morally complexity, sure, but that shouldn’t be taken to suggest it’s a dumbed down version of the former. I’d argue that the script itself, the characterisation and the performances are easily superior to the former. More than anything else, the direction excels, clearest in the way the sequence involving the death of Trenchard is handled with admirable subtlety and restraint. His off screen demise is a wonderfully mature touch for an action series.
No, the best comparison is another sequel that abandons the original’s psychological take for dumb but fun action – Aliens. I may have said this before, but there’s a school of thought that a good sequel has to tread a different path to the original. Nah, if you’re going to do something totally different, why do a sequel? It has to be something both the same and different. And to its credit, The Sea Devils does that. I just wish it had a bit more of an actual story to justify it.
I realise I haven’t talked about the actual episode much. That’s cos not much goes on. Much as with the last one, it gets to the end astonishingly quickly when you consider how little actually goes on. Some of it’s blatant padding (just how much diving bell action do we need?), but as before it’s fun padding. I'm enjoying it.
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#667 1 Mar 2008, 2:40 am
The Secretive Bus
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
but that shouldn’t be taken to suggest it’s a dumbed down version of the former. I’d argue that the script itself, the characterisation and the performances are easily superior to the former.
Explain yourself, sir!
Watched The Sea Devils recently for the first time in a few years and found it really rather dull. Trenchard's good fun but otherwise the supporting characters are a bland sort and the set pieces cry out "set pieces" more those of The Silurians, IMO. And I don't know why but the Sea Devils really leapt out at me as being really rubbish monsters. They're just so obviously rubber and fake. Maybe it's the googly eyes or the fact that they can't lip-synch, but the Silurians looked immeasurably better.
Shame, really, as it's filmed in my home city and I've been to a few of the locations...
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Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
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#668 2 Mar 2008, 1:41 pm
AlMiles
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Last On: 22 Jul 2009 10:28 am
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Re: Day by Day
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Before I start, a big thank-you to Dorney for restarting his reviews - I look forward to rewatching the Sea Devils in its shiny new shiny disk form (shiny) very soon! Day of the Daleks to get through next for me; I hope it doesn't take me a year!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thot gor
You're going through hell! & I thought I was the only one I started with the Ice Warriors (which isnt bad but remained unloved in my collection for years!) then I watched the Sea Devils all in one night which comes as a surprise since it too was unloved for years!
I have recently finished Inferno in just a couple of nights but the real challenge is yet to come......episodes 3 & 4 of Android Invasion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by thot gor
I've watched the War Games in entire sittings on more than one occasion, can't get enough of it
That's why I can't believe you say Inferno is one of the "most hated" stories (hated by fandom that is). It's one of the most-loved stories actually. Watching in order, War Games and Inferno are both weighty, suspenseful classics that could teach many a modern drama series about what "grittiness" really means.
Oh, and Ambassadors of Death is actually the least-liked-by-fandom story from Season 7, and The Space Pirates the most-hated story from around that time. I love both - all the stories from 1969-1970 have superb atmosphere and mature, appealing characters, only Spearhead From Spaceis a bit of a duffer but at least it has Pertwee doing a marvellous Troughon impression for 3 or 4 episodes.
Android Invasion is a superb Avengers pastiche, as is Seeds of Doom. I'd rate them both far above drivel like Planet of Evil (saved only by the superb Frederick Jaeger) or Pyramids of Mars (not really saved by anything). Though the Hinchcliffe will always be a favourite of mine. Eldrad must live!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by AlMiles; 2 Mar 2008 at 1:45 pm.
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#669 2 Mar 2008, 1:57 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I prefer "Wheel" before Moonbase not only because the humans in Moonbase have been taught about the Cybermen (and those in Wheel haven't) but also because the technology is much clunkier in Wheel (note the bulky spacesuits compared to Moonbase)
I've just noticed that they're the same spacesuits from The Tenth Planet! Old tech. My placing of Wheel a few decades earlier than The Moonbase seems vindicated
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#670 2 Mar 2008, 2:23 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Day of the Daleks 3:
It struck me as odd that for all the equating of the Pertwee years with UNIT, there's precious little of them as of about this episode. There's only one full scale UNIT story left in the Pertwee years (Dinosaurs), and that's one less than Tom Baker gets.
Got to admit the Brigadier is a laugh at the stripshow in Spiders, though.. (Brig: "Very athletic. Must adapt some of those moves for the men." Doctor (drily): "They'll take some adapting.")... Ahem. Anyway, Secretive Bus (I think it was) wanted you to let him know the exact point at which the Brig changed from competent military commander to amusing(?) buffoon, having just reached Day of the Daleks I think I've decided where it falls for me.
In the final scene of Inferno (this could have been done to contrast him with the Brigade-Leader. However somehow the buffoonery stuck. Was it the departure of Camfield or the influence of Letts, or both?
There's a tiny resurgence of commanding competence for a few brief moments in The Mind of Evil (the planning and execution of the invasion of Stangmoor Prison, not to mention the "nick [courtney] of time" saving of the Doctor's life) but it's a last gasp. In Terror of the Autons, Claws of Axos, Colony in Space 1&6 and The Daemons he is worse than useless and accomplishes nothing but disgruntled huffing and bellicose barking - Blackadder's General Melchett looks like Monty in comparison.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by AlMiles; 2 Mar 2008 at 2:25 pm.
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#671 2 Mar 2008, 4:22 pm
Dorney
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Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
Explain yourself, sir!
Watched The Sea Devils recently for the first time in a few years and found it really rather dull. Trenchard's good fun but otherwise the supporting characters are a bland sort and the set pieces cry out "set pieces" more those of The Silurians, IMO. And I don't know why but the Sea Devils really leapt out at me as being really rubbish monsters. They're just so obviously rubber and fake. Maybe it's the googly eyes or the fact that they can't lip-synch, but the Silurians looked immeasurably better.
Shame, really, as it's filmed in my home city and I've been to a few of the locations...
Well, I do agree on the set pieces, as I think I've implied - I reckon the reason they feel like set pieces is because they simply aren't tied to a plot.
I suppose what I mean about the characterisation is that it's smaller and more realistic than Silurians. The guest cast in that story are all hugely entertaining, but they're all arguably cut from the same action/adventure cloth, and are larger than life scenery chewers. Hart and the submarine crew all come across as real people in an adventure scenario, underplayed. They're less fun, though, sure.
The main problem with this story remains the lack of an actual plot though.
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#672 2 Mar 2008, 10:45 pm
AlMiles
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Last On: 22 Jul 2009 10:28 am
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Re: Day by Day
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Got Day of the Daleks on now. 22 year old BBC videotape release, has pinsharp picture despite numerous plays (the cassette weighs about as much as a housebrick). Haven't spotted Bus's "F... yes" at Jo's knickerflash yet, but I do recall the most blatant knickerflash as if it was yesterday - that was when I discovered my VCR's slow motion control, all those years ago...
The Daleks may be a bit un-Daleky but that's an occupational hazard of 5 years of neglect - in any case, with their primitive "time machines" and rubbish plans these are clearly from an even earlier era than those in "The Chase" and the other Hartnell and Troughton stories where they can stride the timelines in their DARDIS and bamboozle the Doctor with their spectacularly accurate android duplicate or their silver-beaker-bedecked conker-of-death. About the only thing they did right with their primitive TT machines is get hold of some BBC publicity stills of the 60s Doctors - they're too inept to even capture the Missing Episodes!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by AlMiles; 2 Mar 2008 at 10:53 pm.
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#673 10 Mar 2008, 3:55 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 5:
First of all, five episodes in, I suppose I do have to mention the music. One of the most notorious aspects of the serial… I dunno, I like it. It’s quirky, it’s not actually bad, it’s just different. And I like that. It gives the story a genuine identity of its own. You wouldn’t want it every week, sure, but fairly obviously you don’t get it every week. So what’s the problem. Moving on.
OK, I suppose I’m just going to have to resign myself to the fact that this story really isn’t going to have much of a plot – well, not more than the slightest breath of one. More a series of confrontations and attacks based around a central premise.
To be fair, that’s not necessarily a major problem – that’s basically the plot of Zulu right there – but there does still need to be more to it than the odd confrontation. There needs to be escalation, and variation. And most importantly, a sense that it’s going somewhere. We’ve finally got this to a degree in this episode, but it doesn’t quite excuse the previous four’s lack of purpose. What we have is much like the first Spider-Man film, where I couldn’t help but want the Green Goblin to have some sort of actual purpose, some goal. I suppose the Silurians didn’t really have much story (other than the general fight against humanity) but the story constantly shifted, what with the internal power struggle of the Silurians themselves, the shifting tensions between them and the power station staff, and the tensions between that staff, an escalating series of mini-plots. Whereas the Sea Devils are disappointingly one note. They start off killing humans, they end killing humans. We know they’re behind everything and what they are straight away. There’s never any real reason for anything they do (why does it escalate in this episode? Why only attack now, what were they waiting for? Why don’t the kill the submarine crew?) So where it’s go. Even their relationship with the Master isn’t clear – for all their talk of him being their friend, the relationship basically amounts to him getting them to rescue him, after which he does seemingly nothing at all other than hang around their base and say ‘kill all the humans’ once in a while. Why do the Sea Devils give a stuff? What do they owe him?
Of course, it’s only when I write that that I wonder if I’ve been viewing the story incorrectly. You see, the other way to look at it is that maybe the story isn’t really about the Sea Devils at all, or at least the first four episodes. I know that’s the title and everything, but if you view it as a story first and foremost about the Master suddenly it makes a lot more sense. A four part story about the escape of the Master, followed by a related two parter – or maybe a three part Master escape story in the middle of a three part Sea Devil story… oh, what the heck, it doesn’t really work. It just can’t make up its mind about what it wants to be. It’s a lot of ideas and narrative functions, it just doesn’t have a plot to hang it on.
That’s a shame, because now we’ve finally got to the end of the story, there is suddenly a bit more purpose and plot – albeit a remarkably simple one. Monsters are annoyed with humans. They decide to kill them. And that’s pretty much it. You can’t help but wonder if this story could have worked a bit better with a bit more going on upstairs.
There’s a lot of nice stuff in the incidentals – the Sea Devils look gorgeous and dramatic during their advance (though they’re embarrassingly bad at opening and closing their mouths whilst talking). It’s becoming the tiniest bit clear with the appearance of the civil servant Walker that Hulke’s using a bit of a cheat on characterisation – giving each new person one specific characteristic and using that as an identifier (in Walker’ case, food). But it does work quite well. Walker does feel less of a one note caricature than previous civil servants such as Chorley and Masters, though again I think a lot of that is down to sympathetic direction from Briant pitching these people as more real than a lot of the stock figures of the Pertwee years (this seems to be something of a stock in trade for Briant – only his second gig on the show this, and his first – Colony in Space – has a similar honest quality). Equally solid is Donald Sumpter’s Ridgeway – a nicely drawn take on a fairly stock figure, managing to feel individual despite their being little to the part, and heroic even when shooting down a Sea Devil against the Doctor’s orders (and in a similar touch to Walker, having a nervous twitch that turns up once an episode, adding the inference that a lot of his bravery is bravado). And I rather love the submarine crew, who only get about six lines between them, but get proper personalities and identities. They’re never generic.
Nonetheless, it’s a generally flawed tale, which simply doesn’t have a story. But somehow – I still kind of like it. It’s well written and performed, full of effective images and it’s hard to actively dislike. Something of a style over substance story, the good work on the surface stuff is so enjoyable you kind of forget it’s covering up for a gaping emptiness below (that’s almost an ocean metaphor). Is that a bad thing? I don’t know. It doesn’t feel like a bad story. The devil’s in the detail.
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#674 12 Mar 2008, 12:56 pm
AlMiles
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Re: Day by Day
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I didn't notice Walker's nervous twitch, more complete physical cowardice, and a strangely bloodshot eye from halfway through his appearance!
On to part 6:
Does the Master always carry a mask around with him, and why on Earth is he left pretty much alone in the hovercraft, even if he appears to be collapsed? At least he gets a soaking in the end, as the 'craft turns round and water blasts throuogh the open cockpit door in front of him - teehee.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryback
Watching all these stories in the context of the marathon I realised how much variety there was in Hartnell's performance. His Doctor could do anything, support any kind of story, but at the same time he never lost his mystery. The show could never have become as flexible as it did without him as leading man.
A collection of great DVD covers (click for album).
Quote:
Gordon Brown, 16/04/09: "I take full responsibility for what happened. That's why the person who was responsible went immediately."
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#675 13 Mar 2008, 12:45 am
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
I didn't notice Walker's nervous twitch, more complete physical cowardice, and a strangely bloodshot eye from halfway through his appearance!
Ah, I didn't mean Walker had a twitch - I meant to compare Ridgeway (who has the twitch) to Walker also having one distinct trait (food obsession) and in deed Trenchard (golf).
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#676 13 Mar 2008, 6:44 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlMiles
Does the Master always carry a mask around with him, and why on Earth is he left pretty much alone in the hovercraft, even if he appears to be collapsed? At least he gets a soaking in the end, as the 'craft turns round and water blasts throuogh the open cockpit door in front of him - teehee.
To be fair, he isn't left alone - there's clearly someone else with him, because that's the person he uses as a replacement.
To be less fair, he doesn't always carry a mask around with him - he has to be carrying two. One of his own face, and one of somebody else's. One to put on the unconscious man, one to wear himself.
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#677 13 Mar 2008, 7:28 pm
Dorney
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Re: Day by Day
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The Sea Devils 6:
I dunno – for such a fun story, this doesn’t half fall apart in its last episode.
Practically everything is a little bit daft. The big set piece – the fight between the navy and the Sea Devils seems to be a competition to see who can fall over in the silliest way (I mean, one of the Sea Devils literally somersaults to death – what the hell?). And even if that wasn’t there, we’d be left with the spectacle of the rather contrived attempts to get in as much of the stuff they’ve borrowed off the proper Navy as often as possible (couple of random boats, an overused hovercraft, the strange weapon Hart has a go with).
But beyond that, the plot has it’s moments of silliness too. We’re expected to believe that the Master has planned a device to resurrect the Sea Devils – and then seems to believe that the Doctor’s genuinely going to help him make it, without sabotage? And then when the Doctor does sabotage it, he stands around and waits for a few minutes as the Sea Devils writhe in agony, not barging past to switch it off as soon as possible, instead holding on until the goodies have escaped. And even then, believing the Doctor’s excuses about a minor problem with the wiring. Honestly, he’s behaving like a total idiot (and just how many times does he need to be betrayed by whoever he’s helping out before he realises it’s not the best way to approach these things?).
But that’s all right, because the Doctor’s just as much of an idiot at points here. When he’s rescued, he just leaves the Master in the hands of a random sailor with a gun. Cos there’s no way the Master can escape that one. It’s like he wants the challenge (it would also explain his moronic behaviour at the end of the episode).
Furthermore, after five episodes of good character work, we suddenly have the all round weirdness of Walker’s sudden cowardice. I don’t have a problem with the idea, more the way it just seems so forced and – well, I don’t want to say ‘hammy’, but I just have, so there you go.
I’m sorry, I really am, but it all falls apart. OK, it’s still well made enough to be enjoyable. But because the whole story’s had so little going on, there’s really very little it can do to finish. There’s no major plot to tie up, there’s no moral argument to resolve. It just sort of stops.
As a result, we have the really strange situation that after the famously tragic ending of Silurians, we get the Doctor taking the Brigadier’s role and just blowing the monsters up. It seems such a come down. Sure, the Sea Devil’s are much more shoot first ask questions later than the Silurians, but surely Walker’s supposed to have been in the wrong last week? Where’s the questioning, the regret? Surely the Doctor should be doing it reluctantly. I suppose we do get the faintest moment of that with the Doctor only switching the bomb on after the Sea Devil says it won’t back down (he does say ‘I’m sorry) – a very Tennant moment, it seems to me – but it feels like an afterthought. The Doctor doesn’t seem that fussed afterwards, and barely reacts to the blowing up of the base. It sort of works viewed only in its own context, but as a sequel to Silurians it feels a little underwhelming.
I suppose that sums up the story, really. Good enough fun, but nowhere near as interesting as its predecessor. It’s usual poll rating being higher than the prequel is surely indicative of how fandom picks the stories it likes – big moments, memorable images, that sort of thing. But rarely on strength of story.
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#678 13 Mar 2008, 7:35 pm
Jeffster
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College Station, Texas
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Re: Day by Day
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I think you're nuts on this one, Dorney. The Sea Devils Episode Six might be the best concluding episode of any story that I've seen thus far. I dubbed it "The Shootout Followed By The Speedboat Chase Followed By Reversing the Polarity of the Neutron Flow Just In Time To Destroy The Sea Devils Base Before The Nuclear Strike By The Hungry Idiot Parliamentary Secretary But Let The Master Escape Using A Terrible Mask Trick" and frankly I don't know what more you could possibly want out of a conclusion!
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#679 13 Mar 2008, 7:47 pm
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
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Re: Day by Day
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffster
I think you're nuts on this one, Dorney. The Sea Devils Episode Six might be the best concluding episode of any story that I've seen thus far. I dubbed it "The Shootout Followed By The Speedboat Chase Followed By Reversing the Polarity of the Neutron Flow Just In Time To Destroy The Sea Devils Base Before The Nuclear Strike By The Hungry Idiot Parliamentary Secretary But Let The Master Escape Using A Terrible Mask Trick" and frankly I don't know what more you could possibly want out of a conclusion!
Oh, I'm not denying it's fun. It's just empty.
And odd. To quote: "Reversing the Polarity of the Neutron Flow Just In Time To Destroy The Sea Devils Base Before The Nuclear Strike By The Hungry Idiot Parliamentary Secretary". So the Doctor blows them up - before someone else can blow them up? For all the story portrays Walker as a fool, doesn't he just want to do what the Doctor does?
I dunno - just after six episodes, I kind of want a better ending than 'he blows them up'. Though I may reverse this for Seeds of Doom.
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#680 14 Mar 2008, 5:16 pm
AlMiles
Stay warm
South Gloucs
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Re: Day by Day
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I found it terribly lame that the Sea Devils (at the Master's behest - or was it the Doctor?) cleverly make it look like the depth charge attacks detroyed their base - sending debris and even two dead Sea Devils (volunteers, or accidentally killed earlier?) to the surface, convincing Walker et al that the attacks have succceeded and thereby cancelling the bombardment. Then, 2 minutes later, at the Master's behest, the Sea Devils send in a commando to raid HMS Seaspite - totally blowing their cover and proving their base is intact.
The Navy appear to forget where the base is, though, in the intervening ten minutes, thus preventing them from resuming the bombardment.
Just finished The Mutants - superbly paced, nice characters, situations and proper peril, and a beautiful-looking design classic. Music a bit "radiophonic" but nowhere near Malcolm Clarke's Sea Devils madness. So good that even my girlfriend sat down to watch it and said she "wanted to know what happens next" (perhaps she was just making sure it was going to end? Nah)...
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The Curse of Peladon
10 Jan 2008, 9:49 am
Dorney
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Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
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Re: Day by Day
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Lets see if I can do more than one story in a year for 2008, eh?
Curse of Peladon 1
I’m not a big fan of movie remakes. The problem is a fairly obvious one – if something’s a recognised classic as it is, what can you gain from remaking it? If it’s rubbish, why would you want to? There’s an argument that remaking a black and white film in colour (heck remaking any significantly old film) can work as a means of making the film more accessible to a modern audience, but then you’re basically pitching the film to morons who can’t quite cope with the idea of monochrome. (To be fair, it’s not that much further than remaking foreign films in English, which I find more acceptable, oddly – though that might have something to do with the fact that by and large the remakes in those cases come out okay). Even worse is remaking reasonably recent English films with American actors – The Long Good Friday set in America? Get out.
The only time remakes work for me is when the remake is intended to say something new. It’s like a song cover – ideally you don’t want another version with the same feel, you want something different, like the way the Stranglers turn the formerly heartbreakingly sad Dionne Warwick Bacharach and David song Walk on By into a bitter snarl of rejected fury. It’s rare in film, where they just tend to want to nick a good idea, but it’s noticeable that the remakes that do work tend to take a different take on the material (The two versions of the Fly, for example, one pulpy fun, the other grotesque body horror). Most noticeably, the almost remake proof Invasion of the Body Snatchers, which managed two decent covers (before this years critically derided Craig/Kidman take) simply by virtue of letting the story reflect the paranoia of each specific time.
The reason I mention this in relation to Curse, is because I can’t help but feel this is one of the few old Doctor Who stories that could easily stand a remake today. Famously metaphorical in its day, with it’s UN based overtones, it’s interesting to see that viewed in the cold light of 2007 everything shifts. It now appears less about countries growing up and joining the world stage, as a debate on ignorance versus superstition. In this age of religious based terrorism, it’s hard to see Hepesh as anything other than a dangerous fundamentalist. He’s killing people because of his beliefs, not because of anything remotely resembling fact. (Apologies if you read this unaware of his villainous ways – but it’s pretty comprehensively blown at the end of the episode, so you should have been paying more attention to the episode anyway). Furthermore, the opening scenes explicitly reveal conflict between church and state (in the form of high priest and chancellor), both battling over the crown.
As a result, a modern remake would pitch this story at a slightly different level, and be saying a subtly different thing. Of course, whether it would need to be remade to do this is another point, seeing as the original pulls it off anyway.
It achieves this by virtue of being a very nicely written piece. The episode is jam packed with concepts and characters, and each gets swiftly delineated. Everyone’s properly real and interesting already, which is rare. It’s this depth of characterisation and world building that enables it to reflect our own (and I’d guess the conscious reflections are partly why it’s able to have such a detailed world in the first place). It’s all slightly let down by the sets, if I’m honest, which are nowhere near as grand as the script wants them to be. It’s all a little… well, close, I suppose. All a little too small for a royal palace – most noticeably with the throne which gets this huge reverence and yet looks like a bit of lawn furniture.
There are minor level problems – the Ice Warrior shift is a gloriously unique idea, great at wrongfooting the audience and keeping them intrigued (and wondering if it’s a double bluff) – but at the moment it feels like an addenda to the plot rather than a strong and vital part of it. Their first appearance is almost a throwaway, rather than impactful, and they’re left with little to do in the episode itself. Still, early days, and I hope it’ll balance out a bit in the remaining three. More of a problem is the fact that in order to concentrate on establishing the planet and the myriad aliens, the Doctor and Jo are shunted aside into a fairly implausible mountaineering subplot that gets tidied up with unconvincing haste when the plot needs the Doctor to appear. Though again, parts of that look to be being saved for later, so I’ll give it a chance. And to be honest, it’s so minor that it doesn’t detract from the excellent scripting and performance elsewhere.
So very good. Just time to mention my favourite daft bit, though. Grun manages to tell everyone that Aggedor’s around by pointing vaguely in the direction of the tiniest representation of the beast in the entire citadel. Everyone else manages to psychically know what he’s on about. Hilarious.
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#653 10 Jan 2008, 11:45 am
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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Curse of Peladon 2
If there was one thing I always had a problem with in English Literature classes at school, it was discussion of themes. Every book we'd talk or write about, it was always the central question. What's it about? What's its theme?
Now I can talk and argue about themes all day if you want. About my contention that any worthwhile theme has to be a nebulous thing (I prefer stories where the answer is a lot of vague words - 'love, loss, memory' that sort of thing, and not something you can sum up in a direct sentence). But the problem I've always had is how well the people writing the stories actually know what the hell it's about. Because we can say 'this is a story about X', but the writer might turn around and say 'sod off, it's got nothing to do with X, I can't stand X, it's clearly about Y'.
I bring this up because Curse of Peladon seems, to my eye, to have themes. But I'm not entirely convinced Brian Hayles genuinely knows what he's doing.
You see, one of the problems with reviewing a lot of old stories is hindsight. I know who the villain is. I know what they want, and so on. But it strikes me watching this story that sometimes that actually helps. If you have a twist that's delivered weakly, you don't necessarily notice it because you already know that twists coming.
Take the Ice Warriors in this story. We know they're the goodies. And you find yourself thinking 'but it must have been a shock when you first saw it'. And you know something? I don't think it is. You never really get led down the road of believing the Ice Warriors are doing anything wrong. From the end of episode one, it's made explicit that Hepesh is behind the attacks. Now, there may have been a throwaway bit I missed saying 'our alien ally' or something (which makes most of this redundant if there is) but what's the point of that.
One reason could be the theme. Cos it seems to me that this is a story all about prejudice. The Doctor immediately thinks the Ice Warriors are behind it because of prejudice (to be fair, he's given some leading and obvious clues towards them, but he's clearly distrustful of them already). Likewise the Ice Warriors are clearly prejudicial against humans. And finally, Hepesh himself is the very definition of prejudice.
The only problem with this is that making the Ice Warriors innocence blatant isn't a vital component of exploring that at all. In fact, keeping them suspicious and then revealing it would give the message more weight, because the audience would also be prejudicial towards them. All it would require is a line like the one I mentioned earlier - Hepesh implying one of the aliens is an ally.
A further thought I had was that maybe it was to avoid making them too suspicious. You know what I mean. In a whodunnit there's often a character who has 'I'm an evil guilty bastard who likes to kill people' branded on their forehead. (There's a particularly hilarious example of this in the Mousetrap. A swarthy foreigner - always untrustworthy in Christie - enters and spends the entire play talking in phrases like 'Ah, this is a good night for it. A very good night for it indeed.' He's not the killer, and, of course, nobody ever explains why he talks like that, or why he wanders around acting as suspiciously as he can.) And you know it can't be them (if it is, it's incredibly disappointing. Trust me. I've seen it happen - an episode of Lovejoy, if you're interested. Oh, the shame). So maybe Hayles felt that having a whodunnit with the Ice Warriors in it wouldn't exactly work. But again, there's a way round this. Focus on proving they did it, not on the question of whether they're guilty or not.
That's not to say what we have isn't interesting (structurally, it reminds me of Glengarry Glen Ross - yes, I know I'm going a bit mad with cross cultural references this time, but bear with me - basically a whodunnit, resolved with the cheapest trick available, th
Dorney
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Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
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Lets see if I can do more than one story in a year for 2008, eh?
Curse of Peladon 1
I’m not a big fan of movie remakes. The problem is a fairly obvious one – if something’s a recognised classic as it is, what can you gain from remaking it? If it’s rubbish, why would you want to? There’s an argument that remaking a black and white film in colour (heck remaking any significantly old film) can work as a means of making the film more accessible to a modern audience, but then you’re basically pitching the film to morons who can’t quite cope with the idea of monochrome. (To be fair, it’s not that much further than remaking foreign films in English, which I find more acceptable, oddly – though that might have something to do with the fact that by and large the remakes in those cases come out okay). Even worse is remaking reasonably recent English films with American actors – The Long Good Friday set in America? Get out.
The only time remakes work for me is when the remake is intended to say something new. It’s like a song cover – ideally you don’t want another version with the same feel, you want something different, like the way the Stranglers turn the formerly heartbreakingly sad Dionne Warwick Bacharach and David song Walk on By into a bitter snarl of rejected fury. It’s rare in film, where they just tend to want to nick a good idea, but it’s noticeable that the remakes that do work tend to take a different take on the material (The two versions of the Fly, for example, one pulpy fun, the other grotesque body horror). Most noticeably, the almost remake proof Invasion of the Body Snatchers, which managed two decent covers (before this years critically derided Craig/Kidman take) simply by virtue of letting the story reflect the paranoia of each specific time.
The reason I mention this in relation to Curse, is because I can’t help but feel this is one of the few old Doctor Who stories that could easily stand a remake today. Famously metaphorical in its day, with it’s UN based overtones, it’s interesting to see that viewed in the cold light of 2007 everything shifts. It now appears less about countries growing up and joining the world stage, as a debate on ignorance versus superstition. In this age of religious based terrorism, it’s hard to see Hepesh as anything other than a dangerous fundamentalist. He’s killing people because of his beliefs, not because of anything remotely resembling fact. (Apologies if you read this unaware of his villainous ways – but it’s pretty comprehensively blown at the end of the episode, so you should have been paying more attention to the episode anyway). Furthermore, the opening scenes explicitly reveal conflict between church and state (in the form of high priest and chancellor), both battling over the crown.
As a result, a modern remake would pitch this story at a slightly different level, and be saying a subtly different thing. Of course, whether it would need to be remade to do this is another point, seeing as the original pulls it off anyway.
It achieves this by virtue of being a very nicely written piece. The episode is jam packed with concepts and characters, and each gets swiftly delineated. Everyone’s properly real and interesting already, which is rare. It’s this depth of characterisation and world building that enables it to reflect our own (and I’d guess the conscious reflections are partly why it’s able to have such a detailed world in the first place). It’s all slightly let down by the sets, if I’m honest, which are nowhere near as grand as the script wants them to be. It’s all a little… well, close, I suppose. All a little too small for a royal palace – most noticeably with the throne which gets this huge reverence and yet looks like a bit of lawn furniture.
There are minor level problems – the Ice Warrior shift is a gloriously unique idea, great at wrongfooting the audience and keeping them intrigued (and wondering if it’s a double bluff) – but at the moment it feels like an addenda to the plot rather than a strong and vital part of it. Their first appearance is almost a throwaway, rather than impactful, and they’re left with little to do in the episode itself. Still, early days, and I hope it’ll balance out a bit in the remaining three. More of a problem is the fact that in order to concentrate on establishing the planet and the myriad aliens, the Doctor and Jo are shunted aside into a fairly implausible mountaineering subplot that gets tidied up with unconvincing haste when the plot needs the Doctor to appear. Though again, parts of that look to be being saved for later, so I’ll give it a chance. And to be honest, it’s so minor that it doesn’t detract from the excellent scripting and performance elsewhere.
So very good. Just time to mention my favourite daft bit, though. Grun manages to tell everyone that Aggedor’s around by pointing vaguely in the direction of the tiniest representation of the beast in the entire citadel. Everyone else manages to psychically know what he’s on about. Hilarious.
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#653 10 Jan 2008, 11:45 am
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 2:30 pm
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Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curse of Peladon 2
If there was one thing I always had a problem with in English Literature classes at school, it was discussion of themes. Every book we'd talk or write about, it was always the central question. What's it about? What's its theme?
Now I can talk and argue about themes all day if you want. About my contention that any worthwhile theme has to be a nebulous thing (I prefer stories where the answer is a lot of vague words - 'love, loss, memory' that sort of thing, and not something you can sum up in a direct sentence). But the problem I've always had is how well the people writing the stories actually know what the hell it's about. Because we can say 'this is a story about X', but the writer might turn around and say 'sod off, it's got nothing to do with X, I can't stand X, it's clearly about Y'.
I bring this up because Curse of Peladon seems, to my eye, to have themes. But I'm not entirely convinced Brian Hayles genuinely knows what he's doing.
You see, one of the problems with reviewing a lot of old stories is hindsight. I know who the villain is. I know what they want, and so on. But it strikes me watching this story that sometimes that actually helps. If you have a twist that's delivered weakly, you don't necessarily notice it because you already know that twists coming.
Take the Ice Warriors in this story. We know they're the goodies. And you find yourself thinking 'but it must have been a shock when you first saw it'. And you know something? I don't think it is. You never really get led down the road of believing the Ice Warriors are doing anything wrong. From the end of episode one, it's made explicit that Hepesh is behind the attacks. Now, there may have been a throwaway bit I missed saying 'our alien ally' or something (which makes most of this redundant if there is) but what's the point of that.
One reason could be the theme. Cos it seems to me that this is a story all about prejudice. The Doctor immediately thinks the Ice Warriors are behind it because of prejudice (to be fair, he's given some leading and obvious clues towards them, but he's clearly distrustful of them already). Likewise the Ice Warriors are clearly prejudicial against humans. And finally, Hepesh himself is the very definition of prejudice.
The only problem with this is that making the Ice Warriors innocence blatant isn't a vital component of exploring that at all. In fact, keeping them suspicious and then revealing it would give the message more weight, because the audience would also be prejudicial towards them. All it would require is a line like the one I mentioned earlier - Hepesh implying one of the aliens is an ally.
A further thought I had was that maybe it was to avoid making them too suspicious. You know what I mean. In a whodunnit there's often a character who has 'I'm an evil guilty bastard who likes to kill people' branded on their forehead. (There's a particularly hilarious example of this in the Mousetrap. A swarthy foreigner - always untrustworthy in Christie - enters and spends the entire play talking in phrases like 'Ah, this is a good night for it. A very good night for it indeed.' He's not the killer, and, of course, nobody ever explains why he talks like that, or why he wanders around acting as suspiciously as he can.) And you know it can't be them (if it is, it's incredibly disappointing. Trust me. I've seen it happen - an episode of Lovejoy, if you're interested. Oh, the shame). So maybe Hayles felt that having a whodunnit with the Ice Warriors in it wouldn't exactly work. But again, there's a way round this. Focus on proving they did it, not on the question of whether they're guilty or not.
That's not to say what we have isn't interesting (structurally, it reminds me of Glengarry Glen Ross - yes, I know I'm going a bit mad with cross cultural references this time, but bear with me - basically a whodunnit, resolved with the cheapest trick available, th