17 Oct 2005, 12:30 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, if ever there's a story that proves some of my theories, it's Ambassadors. I can remember the day when I first heard anything about this story. It was when DWM published the review of the novel. Obviously, I was aware of it before then, with it's name turning up in the Radio Times 20th Anniversary Special, for example. But no one ever talked about it. It was almost a non-story. As you may recall if you've been reading this thread before, I've felt for quite some time that the decisions on which stories were 'classics' were widely decided on the basis of the, at times dodgy, memories of your elder statesman fans. So the darker/scarier/more memorable for kids stories tended to get praised to the skies, and rated as classics. Stories like Ambassadors, which don't exactly fit this archetype, and are a little too smart and subtle for children to really rate, lose out in this pattern (every single other story from Pertwee's first year has a direct hook for the kids to remember - funky monsters, scary stuff, dinosaurs, and parallel universes - like the previous story I feel suffered similarly - which sadly doesn't exist to disprove the perceived 'form' - Enemy of the World - Ambassadors is a straightforward serious drama with little in the way of childish thrills). Fortunately, as the video and satellite repeat era took over, the truth began to emerge, as fans started to judge the story on actual, y'know, merit. Suddenly it became obvious that rather than being the lame duck of season seven, Ambassadors is actually one of the best Pertwee stories. By some way. It's just a shame that a lingering sense of it's dismissal by the old 'uber-fans' still means a lot of fans without minds of their own still forget it. Never mind. We know better, eh.
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
1
I love the whole feel of this episode, I really do. The oddball broken title sequence that sounds so odd when you hear about it initially works brilliantly. It adds a certain melodramatic weight to the story (as does the addition of the cliffhanger 'sting', the eighties screeching version of which remains one of my favourite things in Doctor Who ever). Beyond that we have the always inventive direction of Michael Ferguson (the establishing shots of the warehouse are framed brilliantly, odd angles without really drawing too much attention to themselves). And the whole thing has a glorious seriousness of tone that belies the gaudiness of its colour dressings (having got used to watching this story in its black and white glory - suprisingly appropriate for its low level grit - the nutsy colourings of this episode are a bit of a shock, albeit a pleasant one). It's as if no one has been told that they're in Doctor Who, but all of them think it's a serious BBC sci-fi thriller, like Quatermass.
The Quatermass comparison has to be made, of course, because a lot of this episode seems directly inspired by it. Something of a coincidence, as I got the DVD boxset of the tv shows only recently, so the seemingly direct lifting of this episode's plot from the initial installment of the Quatermass Experiment can only be obvious. Both are about experimental British rockets being sent up and contact being lost. Both episodes take place within the base monitoring and trying to track down the missing ship. And both are about three astronauts (the only difference being that here, one of the astronauts joins after the initial problem).
But perhaps more importantly, as I suggest above, it's the tone that seals the deal a bit more. The story takes itself seriously. To give a couple of examples, look at the use of humour in the episode, and compare to the 'liquid passing through Bessie' joke I mentioned at the end of Silurians. The Silurians gag is played as a gag - it's blatantly silly, and Pertwee doesn't look as if he's doing a serious test. The gags with the Doctor in Ambassadors - he and Liz flitting back and forth through time, and his passing around of a cup of tea as he watches tv - are played straight. They don't know they're jokes (Pertwee takes Liz's disappearance very seriously, and the tea gag is a complete throwaway). These are signs of taking the show seriously, whilst not actually being serious. Light, rather than daft. Playful if you like. When Pertwee gets humorous lines, they're derived from how the character of the Doctor interacts with other people, rather than any one planning to be deliberately funny.
Similarly, the general performance level is quiet, and again that's signs of a serious production. OK, Taltalian is pretty much the exception, but everyone else is playing their parts fairly quiet and naturalistically (compare once more with the Silurians - Ralph Cornish versus Doctor Lawrence. Even in the early episodes Lawrence is a little arch, sending that story into sci-fantasy/'fun' territory. Cornish seems more like a real human you could meet on the street, rather than a 'drama' human). The story has a down to earth feel that offsets the sci-fi trappings of the story making it seem curiously ordinary and, well, straight. Just like Quatermass, a serial from before the time people decided that science fiction wasn't as worthy as regular drama. Neither script looks down on its genre at all. Again, this leads to the problems for the children in the audience. This isn't a 'fun' story, it's a serious drama. A thriller. That just happens to have the Doctor and UNIT in it.
It's a shame that bar one throwaway reference to the Silurians, you wouldn't realise that the Brig and the Doctor had ever been at odds. Here they are chummy as anything. It's something of a fine episode for all the regulars in any case. Liz gets a few nice moments of humour, but the Doctor is really beginning to establish his personality. Not immediately as charming or friendly as Troughton, arrogant, and dismissive of humanity, he's not the warmest take on the character, but he still manages to feel Doctorish (he's certainly got some of the early Hartnell about him). The Brigadier gets to take part in a gunfight (that seems to me a little awkwardly staged, despite all the raves - there are a few too many obviously staged throws for my personal comfort, and a little too much enthusiasm at other times. It's telling that the best moment in the entire fight is the simplest one, performed by the non-stuntman: the Brig casually turning in a circle shooting three people as swiftly and easily as you like).
And the episode itself is artfully put together. Lots of intriguing mysteries set up on several different levels, none of which tie together yet (and the sudden betrayal in the last scene, setting up more intrigue, is a surprisingly neat twist, and something of an underrated cliffhanger because people forget that it comes entirely out of the blue). And with the tone in action, we're left with a feeling of unease about these (that eerie shot of the empty spaceship is a neat touch). The story as a whole is discomfiting, and that's what's keeping us in.
The only real niggle I have with the entire episode is the fact that there are plans to launch a 'Recovery 8' rocket in three months. Why? Do they know they'll have something they need to recover in that time? Or is the fact that Recovery 7 is so named, and just happens to have to recover something a pure coincidence? (I suppose it could be a specific part of how the ship gets brought back to Earth, and always was in the equation, but I don't think I really buy that).
I was going to talk about how, and why, this story always has a reputation for being confusing. But I think I've spoken enough for now, and will save that for a later episode. All of which I'm very much looking forward to.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#328 17 Oct 2005, 12:32 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a couple of extra notes - thanks very much for the re-stickying. Always feels much more pleasingly official that way.
And I wanted to add, I will be trying to do that thing with the title for the remaining six episodes... just for a laff.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#329 17 Oct 2005, 3:56 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You forgot the absolutely ball-bustingly fantastic music!
...
I just said "ball-bustingly". I feel so wrong.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#330 17 Oct 2005, 4:47 pm
ringmodulator
Inactive Poster Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
I just said "ball-bustingly". I feel so wrong.
And so you should.
ringmodulator
#331 18 Oct 2005, 8:18 am
Max K Wilkie
Time Lord
Sydney, Australia
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 23 Jun 2009 2:05 pm
Posts Here: 54
Posts in OG Forum: 1,175
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A generally positive review. I salute you, Dorney. Most other people rate Silurians over Ambassadors, and, while everyone's entitled to their own opinion, I really can't see why anyone would think this is the clunker!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mind the gap.
The Next Doctor - 9/10
Planet of the Dead - 7/10
Max K Wilkie
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Max K Wilkie
Send email to Max K Wilkie
Find More Posts by Max K Wilkie
Add Max K Wilkie to Your Contacts
#332 18 Oct 2005, 8:32 pm
Llama Roddy
Bigger than a frog
Hull, England
Joined April 19, 2004
Posts Here: 1,807
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Great to see this thread back again. And Ambassadors is rather wonderful. I wonder if its being the last Pertwee story novelised contributed to its being neglected by fandom.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you're normal, I intend to be a freak for the rest of my life."
Llama Roddy
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Llama Roddy
Send email to Llama Roddy
Find More Posts by Llama Roddy
Add Llama Roddy to Your Contacts
#333 19 Oct 2005, 7:30 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm actually part way through rewatching this story at the moment, a couple of episodes a night, and it's still utterly fantastic. Watching it again, I can see the hard edged "toughness" to it, but it does still court with the ludicrously silly on occasion - any scene with Taltalian's accent, and the flutey "spy" music (which I love - it's the best music track to a Who story with the single exception of "City of Death") turns the camp factor up some notches. I like the fact that the relaxed pace allows us to get more details about the characters and to generally flesh out what's going on - none of it feels like padding, and though some of the action sequences don't seem to go anywhere they're so marvellously done you get caught up in the moment.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#334 20 Oct 2005, 1:31 pm
ianzpotter
Time Lord
Sheffield
Joined April 19, 2004
Last On: Yesterday 6:17 pm
Posts Here: 122
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The music is beautiful, with the exception of that brief sax noodle which I assume is supposed to indicate spy film sophistication, but sounds like we've just watched a young Rank Charm School starlet shimmy past in a tight sweater as Terry-Thomas looks on.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book-
The Rise and Rise of the Independents - a television history
"Meticulously researched and a compelling read - whether you work in the media or not." - Victor Lewis-Smith.
My Unlikely Gig-
Presenting BBC Radio 7's Comedy Club 10 pm 'til Midnight, Monday to Friday, 23rd of June to the 10th of July.
Currently reading-
PROSCRIBED TITLE from PROSCRIBED PUBLISHER.
ianzpotter
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ianzpotter
Send email to ianzpotter
Visit ianzpotter's homepage!
Find More Posts by ianzpotter
Add ianzpotter to Your Contacts
#335 21 Oct 2005, 12:44 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One of the ways the new series of Doctor Who differs from the old is in pace. Russel T Davies has all but said as much when talking about it. 'The old series with a big dash of 2005 thrown in', or something like that. When asked about how 45 minutes could possibly do the stories justice he observed that the pace of modern television means a lot more can be fitted in. Also, when he talks about the strengths he brings to the table, one of the words he uses is speed.
Now, I enjoy the new show very much. But I'm not convinced that the pace of the show, and in deed television in general, getting faster is a good thing. Recently, I've been watching quite a bit of archive drama - Edge of Darkness, I Clavdivs etc. - and it does seem clear that drama has dumbed down quite a bit. Pace is one of the many reasons for this. Drama is increasingly being written for the attentionally challenged, and so every story has to move at a fast lick. The oddity is that this acheives the opposite effect for me. Old drama, with long, talky scenes, is much more absorbing than modern drama with it's fast cutting, and as a result, passes much more quickly. The 2005 series of Who kind of echoes this (the seperate halves of the more relaxed two parters both pass significantly quickly than the single episode equivalents). TV has changed, sure, but not necessarily for the better. Doctor Who as a show has, hopefully, changed the landscape for the better (proving that a series doesn't have to be a clone of Casualty/The Bill/Ballykissangel to be a hit), it's just a bit of a shame that it still is a slightly dumbed down version of the show (only slightly, and only in the sense of pace... but more on this in about four years time).
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
2
The reason I bring all this up now is because Ambassadors 2 has pretty much nothing happening in it. The episode features the landing of the probe, the recovery/capture/recovery of it, and that's it. But it's absorbing as hell.
The first clue to this is in the early sequence where the probe's fall to Earth is being tracked. It's a long scene without much in the way of detail. Just some regular people counting it down. But your focus doesn't waver. The scene is gorgeously played and directed, an underlying tension palpable (a friend of mine talked recently about hearing a tape of British Airmen on a bombing raid during WW2 - they talked about German planes zooming in on them in a casual matter of fact tone. It's the same here. Extreme pressure and fear underlying the necessary calmness). You are sold on the drama of the situation by the performances and the conviction of the shooting. The script resists the temptation to diffuse it all by cutting away more than once, or skipping to the end, and as a result you get a wonderful build up of suspense (and following Hitchcock's dictum, the 'bomb' doesn't go off - a reference to a problem he found with his film 'Sabotage' if you want to look it up - nothing bad happens, so we're still left in a tense state).
The even clearer example of this is the glorious cliffhanger - one of the strangest and best the series ever had. I remember clearly reading what the cliffhanger to part two was and thinking it
sounded a bit rubbish. And it is rubbish. On paper. Filmed, it's a thing of beauty. The menace of repetition, the slow pull in onto Pertwee's face to emphasise the increasing tension and claustrophobia, the edge of the unknown, plus that rythmic ticking in the background, it all builds into a fabulous ending that you just have to follow up. In deed, the very strangeness of it unnerves as well, that inherent sense of, well, wrongness about it, especially compared to the emphasised normalcy and relatively straight drama of the rest of the script, so far.
The script still treats itself as a fairly hard espionage thriller (well, hardish), with every one pitching it on that level (it's hard to believe that it's the same Ronald Allen as the rampant ham from the Dominators one year ago, one of the most succesfully chameleonic actors the series had when these two performances are contrasted). There's a very down to Earth feel about the whole story, still. Even with the first mentions of 'aliens'. The fact that the villains are clearly humans and seemingly British emphasises that this is a story focused on us rather than any garish science fantasy. Nothing here really tips towards the fantastical yet (well, apart from the Doctor, who's very strangeness points up how naturalistic the rest of the story is, and maybe the villains stun guns), with everything in the script very real and plausible in our world. It's this very 'grittiness', if you like, that makes the story so heavily dramatic. It's set in our world for once.
The Doctor's the only one of the regulars who really gets anything interesting to do, and as I said before, it's usually in mildly fantastical sequences to offset the sense that we've wandered into the Ipcress File (and all well and good - the series is defined more by the central character than the plots for me - in many ways this story is a historical set in a period which hasn't happened yet, like Enemy of the World). The sequences with the recording are a bit daft, though are treated with the seriousness we've come to expect from this story, but there are two glorious further moments of real Doctor-ish ness - the faked bumbling old man impression to set up the burgalry device, and the sudden command to out the prisoner as a soldier. Both are so marvellously inventive and left field they fit the character perfectly. Odd how easy it is to accept this somewhat arrogant and distant figure as the same person as the warmer, cuddlier second Doctor, but that's the way it is. Maybe it's the benefit of hindsight, and the fact I've always had them both around, I don't know. But he does feel like the Doctor. I'll have to have a bit of a think about what defines the character of the Doctor for me...
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#336 21 Oct 2005, 2:28 pm
bingo99
Time Lord
Joined April 25, 2004
Last On: Today 3:28 am
Posts Here: 650
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Recently, I've been watching quite a bit of archive drama - Edge of Darkness, I Clavdivs etc. - and it does seem clear that drama has dumbed down quite a bit. Pace is one of the many reasons for this. Drama is increasingly being written for the attentionally challenged, and so every story has to move at a fast lick. The oddity is that this acheives the opposite effect for me. Old drama, with long, talky scenes, is much more absorbing than modern drama with it's fast cutting, and as a result, passes much more quickly.
I was thinking about starting a thread on this on the TV forum, but you've taken the words out my mouth. I don't know if you saw TV on Trial? Where critics talked over classic TV shows for three hours on BBC4. Beautifully judged television of the likes of Steptoe and The Wednesday Play had the likes of Mark Lawson shouting "get a move on!!" over the top of it. You get the feeling that slow pacing is so often derided by modern TV folk as that's the only thing they've got over the more talented people they've replaced. A feeling confirmed when the TV on Trial ended with Peter Bazzelgate (Big Brother head honcho) of all people criticising the quality of Armchair Theatre.
If only everyone working in television at the moment were forced to sit through Ambassadors of Death. A monument to slow pacing and building a gradual atmosphere.
Maybe, as far as Doctor Who goes now, this need for relentless pace is heightened on a modern saturday night, with Ant and Dec packing in ten different TV formats within the space of an hour on the other side. DW's on such a roll at the moment though, I don't really mind. And I trust the people making it.
bingo99
View Public Profile
Send a private message to bingo99
Send email to bingo99
Visit bingo99's homepage!
Find More Posts by bingo99
Add bingo99 to Your Contacts
#337 21 Oct 2005, 5:11 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's strange how the attack on the probe is a long sequence that goes absolutely nowhere - the Doctor gets it back from Carrington almost immediately afterwards - but you don't notice how pointless (in terms of plot, not drama) it is in retrospect. You really get caught up in the moment. Fantastic direction going on, aside from that lapse where the Brigadier gives orders to two men that aren't actually there, which is a bit of an unintentional comedy moment. The Timelash Bloopers list can explain it better than I can:
"When the Brigadier is about to climb aboard the truck carrying Recovery 7, he supposedly gives orders to the motorcycle outriders. He gestures off-camera and says, "Keep to the prepared route and clear the way ahead of us". However, Nicholas Courtney's eyes are looking completely away from where he's gesturing – clearly there's no-one actually in front of him (except the camera crew). Then he looks behind him and adds, "You bring up the rear" before climbing into the cabin, whereupon the camera shows there's no-one behind him either!"
Hee!
But the story remains gripping despite any potential moments of silliness. I'm having a gander at episode 5 before going out tonight, actually...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#338 22 Oct 2005, 1:27 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by bingo99
I was thinking about starting a thread on this on the TV forum, but you've taken the words out my mouth. I don't know if you saw TV on Trial? Where critics talked over classic TV shows for three hours on BBC4. Beautifully judged television of the likes of Steptoe and The Wednesday Play had the likes of Mark Lawson shouting "get a move on!!" over the top of it. You get the feeling that slow pacing is so often derided by modern TV folk as that's the only thing they've got over the more talented people they've replaced. A feeling confirmed when the TV on Trial ended with Peter Bazzelgate (Big Brother head honcho) of all people criticising the quality of Armchair Theatre.
My mum got very annoyed once at the director of the second Leonard Rossiter/Joan Collins ad, where he criticised the actor as being difficult, and penickity, failing to realise that this was cause the man was brilliant. This sounds like the same thing.
I only saw one episode of TV on Trial - about the eighties, containing a bit on Spitting Image - and I'm glad I didn't see any of the bits you described as I'd have been incensed. I fail to see why speed is inherently a good thing in drama. Anyone who could complain that Shakespeare or Chekov should get a move on deserves to be shot. Speed has become the desired ideal for television purely because that's the received wisdom, rather than because it makes the programme better, and that's because TV is designed to cater for morons these days (though, ironically, it's more a case that this is what the producers think the mass audience will want, than necessarily what the audience will want - it's surprising how popular intelligent drama can be when it's given the chance - the latest series of Who proves this, a massive ratings hit that's actually daring and different. The same way all Disney films were musicals until Toy Story taught them that kids could cope with an hour and a half of plot and didn't need the distraction - tv assumes that it's audience only wants one type of drama, one type of pace, giving every series a soap style relationship base is what the audience want. Assuming that all viewers want lowest common denominator tv because that's all they get, assuming that the audience want happy endings and don't like being challenged. I reckon there's a hunger for proper intelligent drama out there, which the medium just hasn't the courage to go for - TV is becoming as safe and focus grouped as Hollywood). Sure, scenes like those in part three of The Chase are deathly slow and uninteresting, but that's because they're poorly written rather than being because of their pace. And that makes me think - is the speed of modern television simply a smokescreen for poor writing? If Steptoe or Armchair Theatre are too slow for you, that really just shows how shallow your interest in the medium is.
Doctor Who 2005 has enough wit and intelligence in the writing for the occasional gallop not to matter so much (as you say, the makers are rather good, so that's got to help). And hopefully it'll lead to a revivial of intelligent drama, as opposed to the 'something for everyone' set up we currently have.
Might be worth starting a thread about this in the tv forum... I've suddenly gone all Grumpy Old Man.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#339 22 Oct 2005, 1:57 pm
ianzpotter
Time Lord
Sheffield
Joined April 19, 2004
Last On: Yesterday 6:17 pm
Posts Here: 122
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TV on Trial shows were much better if you pressed the red button and just watched the show. As I recall, they complained about the illogical and arbitrary introduction of a character in the Life with the Lyons episode because they were talking over the dialogue that actually introduced her. Mind they also failed to realise Mollie Weir was playing Aggie the maid so they'd already lost points for me there!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book-
The Rise and Rise of the Independents - a television history
"Meticulously researched and a compelling read - whether you work in the media or not." - Victor Lewis-Smith.
My Unlikely Gig-
Presenting BBC Radio 7's Comedy Club 10 pm 'til Midnight, Monday to Friday, 23rd of June to the 10th of July.
Currently reading-
PROSCRIBED TITLE from PROSCRIBED PUBLISHER.
ianzpotter
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ianzpotter
Send email to ianzpotter
Visit ianzpotter's homepage!
Find More Posts by ianzpotter
Add ianzpotter to Your Contacts
#340 22 Oct 2005, 10:01 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorney, have you seen "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" and "Smiley's People"? Sounds like the sort of thing you've probably had a gander at before. Just I was watching a documentary on Alec Guinness earlier today and thought both series looked rather intriguing, so I've jotted them down on me Xmas list. Researching it seems to suggest that they're both good drama series, though extremely lesiurely and slow; like the sort of telly you're campaigning for!
I keep thinking that the sort of comedy I'd like to write would be of the Galton & Simpson style - a few characters sitting around and talking. I'm not very good with plots, really, I prefer characterisation and trying to be funny.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#341 23 Oct 2005, 12:00 am
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
Researching it seems to suggest that they're both good drama series, though extremely lesiurely and slow; like the sort of telly you're campaigning for!
You are right on both counts. They are well worth watching over the festive season.
Bear in mind they are the products of another age. With hindsight, the cold war may seem a bit of a damp squib. At the time it did worry some people rather a lot. It can also be taken on several levels. The more astute and cynical will note the amazing amount of corny contrivances involved - the Circus rather gives the game away
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dieselsweeties.com
http://www.hello-cthulhu.com
supervoc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to supervoc
Find More Posts by supervoc
Add supervoc to Your Contacts
#342 23 Oct 2005, 12:01 am
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you love The Avengers you will get even more mileage out of them
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dieselsweeties.com
http://www.hello-cthulhu.com
supervoc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to supervoc
Find More Posts by supervoc
Add supervoc to Your Contacts
#343 23 Oct 2005, 3:07 am
codywillis1
Time Lord
South Australia
Joined April 23, 2004
Last On: Today 10:30 am
Posts Here: 4,543
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
One of the ways the new series of Doctor Who differs from the old is in pace. Russel T Davies has all but said as much when talking about it. 'The old series with a big dash of 2005 thrown in', or something like that. When asked about how 45 minutes could possibly do the stories justice he observed that the pace of modern television means a lot more can be fitted in. Also, when he talks about the strengths he brings to the table, one of the words he uses is speed.
Now, I enjoy the new show very much. But I'm not convinced that the pace of the show, and in deed television in general, getting faster is a good thing. Recently, I've been watching quite a bit of archive drama - Edge of Darkness, I Clavdivs etc. - and it does seem clear that drama has dumbed down quite a bit. Pace is one of the many reasons for this. Drama is increasingly being written for the attentionally challenged, and so every story has to move at a fast lick. The oddity is that this acheives the opposite effect for me. Old drama, with long, talky scenes, is much more absorbing than modern drama with it's fast cutting, and as a result, passes much more quickly. The 2005 series of Who kind of echoes this (the seperate halves of the more relaxed two parters both pass significantly quickly than the single episode equivalents). TV has changed, sure, but not necessarily for the better. Doctor Who as a show has, hopefully, changed the landscape for the better (proving that a series doesn't have to be a clone of Casualty/The Bill/Ballykissangel to be a hit), it's just a bit of a shame that it still is a slightly dumbed down version of the show (only slightly, and only in the sense of pace... but more on this in about four years time).
...
Good God, you've hit the nail on the head. I'm watching slower paced stuff like the 70s Columbo at the moment, and loving it. I rewatched Rose and TEOTW the other week, and while I enjoyed them, it just seems so ... FAST. There's no time to settle into the story, to enjoy the characters or relish the mystery or the atmosphere. It starts and it's over. I'm only 30, but I feel like an old codger saying this, but it's like the modern viewer has no attention span at all anymore - when, in a lot of classic tv, the slower scenes - even what some people would no doubt call 'padding' - are actually among the best.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The McCoy era is the brilliant, magical, eternally under-rated, Indian summer of classic Who." - Hawksmoor
codywillis1
View Public Profile
Send a private message to codywillis1
Find More Posts by codywillis1
Add codywillis1 to Your Contacts
#344 23 Oct 2005, 12:17 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by supervoc
Bear in mind they are the products of another age. With hindsight, the cold war may seem a bit of a damp squib.
Well, I like Dr Strangelove!
And the Cold War was my favourite topic at GCSE History level.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#345 23 Oct 2005, 3:45 pm
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
Well, I like Dr Strangelove!
Another work of genius!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
And the Cold War was my favourite topic at GCSE History level.
In that case you have no choice - you must get them for xmas and consume them with the mince pies
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dieselsweeties.com
http://www.hello-cthulhu.com
supervoc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to supervoc
Find More Posts by supervoc
Add supervoc to Your Contacts
#346 23 Oct 2005, 5:26 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, I loved Tinker Tailor. Haven't seen Smiley's People, but if it's the same standard, it's easily worth a purchase.
Chuffed to discover my views are backed up, and by quite a few smart posts... I almost feel right!
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#347 23 Oct 2005, 5:57 pm
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Oh, I loved Tinker Tailor. Haven't seen Smiley's People, but if it's the same standard, it's easily worth a purchase.
It is. £10 for 5 hours 37 mins is cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Chuffed to discover my views are backed up, and by quite a few smart posts... I almost feel right!
You are right, without a shadow of doubt!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dieselsweeties.com
http://www.hello-cthulhu.com
supervoc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to supervoc
Find More Posts by supervoc
Add supervoc to Your Contacts
#348 26 Oct 2005, 12:38 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooh, it's all gone a bit gritty hasn't it? Within a very short space of time Reegan turns up and is running around murdering people left right and centre. It's odd. The killing of the scientists near the beginning (not actually directly commited by him, but certainly on his say so) is strikingly brutal - simply because they're collateral damage. Neither scientist has any real impact on the story, so it's pretty much like they're just there to get shot. Hence suggesting the story is more than a little nasty. Likewise, the deaths of the thugs, whilst treated with the distance you kind of expect from Who, gains added bleakness by their burial in Get Carter esque silt or whatever it is. The story remains keen to avoid the fantastical, emphasising it's real world placement (in how many other stories does the villain take the time to dispose of dead bodies in a fairly nondescript way? This is a story very much set in our, real, world).
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
3
Once again, a fairly slow paced but absorbing episode (I was rather gobsmacked to realise how close we were to the cliffhanger when it actually happened). Characterisation is top notch which helps, with the two new arrivals for this episode, Reegan and Lennox being deftly introduced - the formers glorious gallows humour, combined with his cold acts of violence work well, and the short sharp sentence from him exploring the latters background (when Lennox mentions his Doctorate, and Reegan replies that he thought that had been taken away) is a neat and subtle bit of work. Fairly instantly we can invisage a backstory for the character, and combined with fairly distinct performances from both actors, we immediately know who we're dealing with.
However, there are one or two problems. The story is showing the first signs of its writers losing the plot (quite literally, but more about that another time) with the crossing and double crossing and multiple lies building up, but perhaps more worryingly, the faint sense of repetition sinking in, with the 'astronauts' being kidnapped for the third time in about ten minutes. Perhaps the biggest oddity of the episode is the way the editing all seems to go up the creek halfway through. Scenes cut in and out of each other abruptly for no apparent reason other than, presumably, to add a certain dynamism to a quiet episode. It just seems a bit choppy in the execution, looking like longer scenes have been split up and intermeshed. After the joyous cliffhanger to the previous episode, the success of which is largely in excellent editing, this is something of a disappointment (and especially so when compared to this episode's cliffhanger, which comes with no real build up at all, and is annoyingly jarring).
I should really talk about the music. This serial does have something of a distinctive score (less so in this episode, but I'm fully aware I've very little else to say, so cut me some slack). The slow menacing tune that undercuts early scenes with Reegan adds atmosphere without being obvious, and the ship docking stuff is beautifully ethereal. A model score in many ways. It's gorgeous but doesn't try to swamp the rest of the story, except when it needs to. Memorable and hummable, what more can you want?
So, I think I'll leave it there for the moment. A thinnish episode, but next time I'll deal with the stuff about 'confusion' (unless something turns up to distract me. Again).
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#349 26 Oct 2005, 3:08 pm
bingo99
Time Lord
Joined April 25, 2004
Last On: Today 3:28 am
Posts Here: 650
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I watched Ambassadors recently I thought it was the most enjoyable shambles I'd ever seen. In many ways it is a disgrace to professional television. It's unfocussed, bits of it go nowhere and it moves at a snails pace, but somehow, it's a great piece of telly.
bingo99
View Public Profile
Send a private message to bingo99
Send email to bingo99
Visit bingo99's homepage!
Find More Posts by bingo99
Add bingo99 to Your Contacts
#350 27 Oct 2005, 2:11 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confusion! It always seems strange that Doctor Who fans complain if a story is confusing, or over-complicated. The public won't get it in bite size chunks, they say. But I disagree. In the real world, confusion and enigma is well liked. Consider, for example, the films of Kubrick. In particular, consider 2001, and The Shining. Both hugely enigmatic films, both broadly speaking incomprehensible. You can't quite tell exactly what's going on in either. But does it matter? Not a jot. The stories are more about evoking a mood, creating images. Sense doesn't matter. In deed, the former has a sequel that gives all the answers, the latter has a remake that is far more straightforward. And both somehow lessen the originals, the former directly, the latter in comparison to it's superior predecessor. The enigma is half the joy of the original.
And it's the same in a lot of others - think Donnie Darko, Sapphire and Steel, the plays of Harold Pinter, for goodness sake. In Doctor Who terms there are three stories that I have heard described as incomprehensible. Ghost Light (obviously), Warriors Gate, and Ambassadors of Death. The former is, to my eyes, most like the Kubrick's described above - less interested in total clarity, though about 90% is easy to get. Warriors is hugely dense (rather like it's Dwarf Star Alloy, making it a story including it's own metaphor) and intelligent, and to complain about that seems to be a bit dumb, frankly. Ambassadors is, for my money, the only one that is genuinely confusing, but not really for the right reasons.
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
4
There's a famous story from Raymond Chandler, that I'm sure I've mentioned in this thread already, but who cares. When Huston was making his film of the Big Sleep, he realised that the book never resolved the murder of a chaufeur to his satisfaction. He telegramed Chandler to find out who killed this character. Chandler replied that he'd sort of got lost on that point himself.
Ambassadors strikes me as being written in a similar way. I said for part three that there were traces of the writer(s) losing the plot. It is as literal as that. In order to fill in time (and possibly as a result of the Hulke re-write) extra plot lines are added to the degree that you get the feeling that the authors aren't really sure what the plot's supposed to be. The story itself is fairly straightforward, and fairly clearly laid out. The writer's own confusion is the problem.
Examples? First off, there's a weird bit at the beginning of the episode. At the end of part three, the Brigadier returns, and the Doctor realises that the message Liz pursued was a fake. At the start of part four, neither of them seem to give a monkey's. Both just keep going as if nothing untoward happened.
That is however merely a signs of things to come. Reegan keeps having one sided conversations with a mysterious 'boss'. Now, obviously we're not supposed to know who this is. At the same time, there's a mysterious truth underlying the actions of Quinlan and Carrington. Now, in theory, these two stories should play out as seperate narrative strands, with Reegan's master being revealed to be Cornish or someone(in deed, I seem to remember reading that the original plot line had Reegan as the main villain of the story). However, it becomes increasingly clear that the two are linked, and that the boss is almost certainly Carrington. Firstly, the idea that Taltalian (of the mysterious English accent in the single location scene he gets) could be seperately recruited by two clandestine agencies is implausible. The rest is more problematic. Firstly, when Carrington hands over the evidence that some foreign agency stole the astronauts, the Doctor's response suggests he doesn't believe them (in particular, his response to the comb seems to suggest he think's Carrington is behind it). In deed, in one of the very next scenes, he's saying that at least part of their story is faked. Now, these could be seperate storylines still for the rest of the story (if the plot ended with Carrington distrustful of the aliens and trying to sabotage them, and Reegan an independant taking advantage of the state of affairs) and could still make sense. That is, until Quinan is killed at the end of the episode, by one of Reegan's aliens, shortly after talking to Carrington about revealing the truth. There's no good explanation for why Reegan, or his 'mysterious' boss would want to kill Quinlan, unless the boss is Carrington. And yet, the story still wants us to think they're not connected. This is how the story is confusing. We can follow what's going on, who everyone is, etc. We're just not sure what we're supposed to be thinking at any given time. In other words, I understand what's going on, I just don't understand why the writers have made choices seemingly at odds with their intention.
I also feel that that last paragraph is probably more incomprehensible than I meant it to be, so I suppose fair's fair.
For the rest of the episode - obviously, quite a bit of padding here (Liz's ludicrously short lived escape attempt) and the story doesn't leap forward a great deal, with the story being a very vague shape to hang a variety of mini set pieces around - after being missing last time, this episode is very much about the mini plot of Taltalian, the only really developing/changing plot strand (even Quinlan's mental process of change and murder are dealt with only briefly) offering a distraction from the slowly progressing overall plot (with the Doctor's comprehension of the true location of the astronauts in part three turning the plot, this episode doesn't really take that further, bar a quasi-realistic attempt to depict the political process requiring this). But, as usual with this story, the down to Earth realism is inherently interesting, and the imagery is striking. The space-suited creature, blank faced, unknowable, impassive, is quite a menacing and scary sight (vaguely reminiscent of the Gas Masked 'monsters' of the Empty Child). It's slow march into the base, backlit, and it's outstretched hand over the Doctors back are two striking and brilliant shot images.
So, overall, still enjoying it very much. Just wish I knew what I was supposed to be enjoying.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#351 27 Oct 2005, 2:20 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but the plays of Pinter are *****e.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#352 27 Oct 2005, 3:24 pm
ianzpotter
Time Lord
Sheffield
Joined April 19, 2004
Last On: Yesterday 6:17 pm
Posts Here: 122
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I like The Lover and Victoria Station a lot, but a lot of the rest leave me cold.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book-
The Rise and Rise of the Independents - a television history
"Meticulously researched and a compelling read - whether you work in the media or not." - Victor Lewis-Smith.
My Unlikely Gig-
Presenting BBC Radio 7's Comedy Club 10 pm 'til Midnight, Monday to Friday, 23rd of June to the 10th of July.
Currently reading-
PROSCRIBED TITLE from PROSCRIBED PUBLISHER.
ianzpotter
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ianzpotter
Send email to ianzpotter
Visit ianzpotter's homepage!
Find More Posts by ianzpotter
Add ianzpotter to Your Contacts
#353 27 Oct 2005, 3:32 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had to study and analyse The Caretaker, The Homecoming, and The Hothouse (and I starred in a mini production of that last one as Mr Roote), as well as having a gander at The Servant. I just find them all to be prententious and predictable. He always has a random act of violence occuring out of the blue at one point which is never referred to again. All characters will be forced to obey their carnal needs by the end of the play - quite often they'll be lolling about on the floor. The characters are all catalysts for the author's voice to say something about society, they never strike you as doing things off their own bat. I just don't like Pinter plays. But then, I often dislike all absurdist stuff as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#354 27 Oct 2005, 4:00 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lovely call on Victoria Station Mr P, a much underrated gem, imo. And the Lover has the best opening line of any play, anywhere.
Generally, I'm a bit of a Pinter fan, mainly for the use of language (characters speak like no-one on Earth, but with beautifully put together phrases). As the Bus says, plotwise they are a touch predictable. Arguably, though, plays are less about plot than imagery and atmosphere (certainly in the theatre of the absurd, which Pinter belongs to). Odd that you should mention the Caretaker (so straightforward in plot it almost doesn't feel like Pinter at all) and the Hothouse (which with its vaguely obvious satire air is somewhat ignored, even by Pinter himself who didn't let anyone stage it for years. The Homecoming is probably the best of the three you mention, though I rather like The Dumb Waiter and The Birthday Party, both of which kind of deviate from the route you mention, and the intrigue of Old Friends and Betrayal (both of which have very clever endings - the former, the very last line).
Having said all that, everything he's written since about 1980 has been substantially more overtly political, and substantially less interesting. Almost like he veers to Pinter parody these days.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#355 27 Oct 2005, 4:19 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose in many ways it's because all the characters in Pinter plays are horrid people, and i don't like spending time around horrid people. The only times when it's acceptable is when they're funny, and you can laugh at some dry irony or something, but I've never found anything to laugh at in a Pinter play. I managed to get a few laughs in The Hothouse via some improv and a silly voice on a mocking line, but that was about the size of it, and probably would have made Pinter explode or something.
I love "Steptoe and Son". Two characters who are really rather hateful, but for some reason Galton & Simpson make it compelling for me. Perhaps because they seem more natural, and the point of the series is to flesh out some central characters, whereas Pinter uses his "characters" as puppets in some sort of sociological agenda.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#356 27 Oct 2005, 5:19 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
True. I've heard The Homecoming described as the nastiest play in the English language, simply because the characters are so horrible. It's pretty accurate.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#357 27 Oct 2005, 6:27 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'll be writing a coursework essay on it this year, comparing and contrasting it with a novel called "Cold Comfort Farm"...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#358 27 Oct 2005, 6:57 pm
ianzpotter
Time Lord
Sheffield
Joined April 19, 2004
Last On: Yesterday 6:17 pm
Posts Here: 122
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cold Comfort Farm is wonderful (not quite as wonderful as the radio version the BBC did back in the 80s admittedly but much more wonderful than the BBC film). You may experience a strange sense of deja vu reading it though (akin to discovering all the good bits from Agatha Christie are Shakespeare quotations) as you realise this book has been alluded to and quoted from all over the place like a literary 'Bad Wolf'.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book-
The Rise and Rise of the Independents - a television history
"Meticulously researched and a compelling read - whether you work in the media or not." - Victor Lewis-Smith.
My Unlikely Gig-
Presenting BBC Radio 7's Comedy Club 10 pm 'til Midnight, Monday to Friday, 23rd of June to the 10th of July.
Currently reading-
PROSCRIBED TITLE from PROSCRIBED PUBLISHER.
ianzpotter
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ianzpotter
Send email to ianzpotter
Visit ianzpotter's homepage!
Find More Posts by ianzpotter
Add ianzpotter to Your Contacts
#359 27 Oct 2005, 8:35 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I'm not really enjoying it that much, probably because it was meant to be poking fun of a certain genre and style of story that I've never read, nor intend to. When it's trying to be funny it comes off as being a bit like sub-par Wilde, though that's probably because I'm reading Oscar Wilde at the moment as well. But CCF certainly hasn't caught my interest. I find the main character exceptionally irritating to boot - she keeps making lots of assumptions ("I bet he's going to fall in love with me, oh how tiresome blah blah,") which seem extremely arrogant... and then they come true! Blargh! I just want to see her proved wrong for once. Or at least have her fall into a ditch.
However I am very much enjoying working on Othello.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#360 27 Oct 2005, 9:29 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:49 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to interrupt the discussion on literature, just wanted to check whether it's 40 posts a pop usually? If it is, that means this page has all but run out - with only four episodes reviewed. That has to be a record.
27 Oct 2005, 9:54 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
80 posts a page for me - but so far there's only 4 episodes on this page, yes...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#362 28 Oct 2005, 12:44 am
ceadge
Time Lord
Hampshire
Joined September 29, 2005
Last On: 24 Jun 2009 11:59 am
Posts Here: 430
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
I'll be writing a coursework essay on it this year, comparing and contrasting it with a novel called "Cold Comfort Farm"...
Ooh, I know that one, or at least know the play - my local Am-Dram did a production about 5 years back, where I played both Urk Starkadder and Richard Hawke-Monitor. Not that I understood it or anything. But it does have the immortal line "I saw something narsty in the woodshed...."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"They are not real fandom, though, they are a core of mostly men who like to complain. Fandom is bigger and richer than that, and they are only about 1,000 people who give everyone else a bad name and build their life around a show."
Russell T Davies interview in The Guardian, 7th July 2008
ceadge
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ceadge
Send email to ceadge
Visit ceadge's homepage!
Find More Posts by ceadge
Add ceadge to Your Contacts
#363 29 Oct 2005, 1:43 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:51 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The phrase that tends to keep popping up in discussion of the season 7 seven parters is about whether they 'sustain their length' or not. This made me think. I'll make no bones about it, I'm finding increasingly hard to find much new to say about episodes of this story. There really isn't a vast amount of actual plot - for all the attempts at twists and turns, they're more designed to obfuscate rather than actually branch the plot off in a new direction. The plot proper is proceeding at a snails pace, and the time is being filled with a succession of action set pieces - with each of the last two episodes having virtually the same storyline (the Doctor wants to launch a rocket - the villains try to stop him, and fail in an assasination attempt - after a pathetically easy escape from the Dr. One of the kidnapped goodies makes a break for it. One of the villains, who has betrayed the plan, is killed). The plot itself doesn't really progress or move, and these dramatic sequences are time wasting sound and fury to disguise that. So on any conceivable level, there is not enough actual plot in Ambassadors of Death to justify seven episodes.
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
5
But 'justify' and 'sustain' are two different things, aren't they? You see, even if the plot doesn't justify the length, the story itself does. Every episode so far is gloriously entertaining. Sure the set pieces are hollow, but they're always entertainingly done, and the sheer exuberance of them contrasts well with the realistic feel of the rest of the story. These are set pieces that know they're set pieces, acting as showstoppers, appealing to the child in all of us who just wants to see lots of fights and cool stuff (and Ambassadors is always cool). In deed, the repetitive nature is almost part of the fun, with the story turning into one of persistence, a battle of wills between the goodie and the baddie (who so far, have never actually met). In some ways, this story isn't even about the plot (the phrase that leaps to mind is that one about the journey being more important than the destination). To describe the story as being about first contact with aliens all but misses the point. The story is about the Doctor and friends having lots of scrapes. So, yes, the story doesn't justify seven episodes. But it sure as hell sustains it, keeping me entertained time in, time out, without having even a scrap of plot to justify it.
The Doctor's been talking about sending up a rocket for the best part of two episodes, and is rather unusually static in this story (He's only left the base, what, once since episode three?). Despite the seismic shifts around the last two cliffhangers, he's nipped straight back to work as if nothing's happened - does he even acknowledge Liz is missing in this episode? I don't think he does. His thread in this story, for parts four and five at least, is about waiting for other people to bring the plot to him. The Doctor is unusually focused on the spaceship, and ignoring everything else - mass murder, kidnap, etc. No wonder poor old Lennox gets bumped off so quickly - the regulars don't really care that much about what's going on elsewhere (you can pretty much see that Liz thinks everyone's desperate to find her - but they mind so little it's no wonder she leaves after Inferno). It's sort of clear that the Doctor has got pretty much the entire plot figured out - his 'Or is that what we're supposed to think?' followed by Carrington backing up the mad plot suggests that he's got it pegged, and in deed Carrington pegged, and his lack of interest in the 'conspiracy' angle seems to fit with this - why would he bother with trivial stuff he already understands.
The cliffhanger to the episode is rather a fine one, despite it being CSO based. It suggests yet another strand to the storyline turning up, and despite the story being enjoyable enough, it does really rather need a bit of a kick. The cliffhanger is completely out of nowhere, not seeming to fit anything else seen before, so it does mean the wait til the next episode is particularly gruelling.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#364 29 Oct 2005, 11:28 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a matter of no relevance, I reckon I'll be giving Gallifrey: Insurgency a listen tomorrow... and... oh look! It has "John Dorney" in it!
I hope your appearance will fill the gap left by ol' Brax - I was really rather sad when he got exiled, he was one of me faves...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#365 3 Nov 2005, 12:49 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:51 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Secretive Bus
As a matter of no relevance, I reckon I'll be giving Gallifrey: Insurgency a listen tomorrow... and... oh look! It has "John Dorney" in it!
Blimey - hope you enjoyed it. For what it's worth, I think I'm terrible in the first couple of scenes, but in the latter stuff I've got into it a bit more. And I love the voice effect so much I haven't got to the end of listening to the whole play yet!
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#366 3 Nov 2005, 12:50 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:51 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was thinking the other day that whenever people talk about Ambassadors, they always go on about how interesting and multi-layered Carrington is as a villain. I'll probably try and talk about that next time, seeing as that's the only episode where he properly is (depending on whether or not you count one and two, of course). But it seems to miss something that is, for me, a vital point. Carrington is only one of the villains, and at best, only for three episodes (depending on whether or not you count one and two). For the vast majority of the story, the villain is Reegan.
I seem to recall reading that Reegan was the main villain in the earlier, Hulke-less drafts of the script. It makes sense (not least because it would make the whole plot considerably less confused). However, with the re-write making him into the henchman, conceptually at least, he's been shifted out of the limelight. And I think that's a shame. Everyone talks about Carrington, no-one talks about Reegan.
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
6
I can't help but feel this is a shame. Reegan is almost as interesting and original a villain for the show as his boss - in deed, I'd argue that he's probably the only character we can properly term a 'villain' in the story. To start with, I'm not sure if it's ever explained properly exactly who this guy is - a co-opted military man is possible, hired by Carrington, but it feels unlikely (he's clearly too keen on murder, and tends towards sardonic in his response - no moral duty for this man, he enjoys it). No, Reegan has to be a hired thug. A petty criminal who got lucky (to contradict my previous statement, maybe someone dropped from the military for being a sadist). This is why the character interests me. For once, the Doctor's enemy isn't someone bent on world/universal domination, just a nasty little man out for personal gain. The only villains comparable I can immediately think of are The Space Pirates. But whereas their low motives made them feel like small fry, Reegan seems like a genuinely dangerous man, it nastys him up a bit. Part of this must be based on their specific individual plots - the pirates were just into a bit of grand larceny, whereas Reegan is kidnapping aliens - and parts must be based on the context - petty thieves in space seem dull, whereas one on Earth seems curiously realistic. Once again, that word: realistic. Reegan is perfectly symptomatic of the down to Earth nature of the story.
This story keeps piling up the memorable moments. Bizarrely, Liz's confrontation with the helmet-less Ambassador isn't one of them (be honest, could you remember that we see one of the creatures faces properly? I couldn't, and I think I last saw this story about two years back!). And I'd also forgotten that Lennox's death is disappointingly off-screen. But the confrontation with the aliens in the spacecraft, and the duping of the astronauts is rather striking. I also love the way that it takes until this episode before the title is explained (I love stories that hold of on this, as Who occasionally does - most memorably a Ruth Rendell novel called Simisola which explains the title in the penultimate sentence). The revelations of the plot are quite interesting, with the ambassadors thing being genuinely surprising as you suddenly realise that you've viewed the entire plot incorrectly. Again, this does add to explaining why the story is seven episodes. If it had been the conventional four part story, this would have been part three, with the Doctor going straight up in the rocket the minute they find the capsule is empty. Imagine how poor that would have been. The whole weight of the story requires the run around element, otherwise there's no mystery, no intrigue. This is a story about something as big as first contact, it needs that epic scale. The story needs to feel like the Doctor is lost in the middle of something bigger and more complicated than he understands, because that's what conspiracies are (so in a way the fact that the story is confused - not confusing - is a practical boon!)
Also, as I've said before, the alien subplot is actually almost irrelevant. It's merely a framework to hang a lot of Doctor/thug confrontations on - don't believe me? Notice in particular how little the Ambassadors themselves actually do. They go into action around the cliffhanger of episode 4 - but then just stand around for the next couple of episodes. For all Reegan's talk about breaking into Fort Knox, it's always the humans who deal with problems (he's the one who tries to kill the Doctor in this episode and the last, and it's Carrington who kills Lennox). Furthermore, the new information that the aliens are ambassadors doesn't actually push the plot off in a vastly new direction (the Doctor's sort of believed they weren't evil for quite a few episodes now). As it is, on his return to Earth, he's immediately captured. The story isn't about a bunch of alien ambassadors - the story is about a bunch of humans attempting to pervert first contact, consistently trying to prevent the truth being discovered. The script itself isn't really all that interested in the monsters, it's interested in the perversion of justice. When Who stories are compared Bond films it's usually stuff like Enemy of the World (I may even have done that myself), but this is one that does fit the mould, because the plot isn't padded by extraneous confrontations, the confrontations are the plot.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#367 12 Nov 2005, 12:50 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is he going to make it? Unghhh.... urghhh....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#368 12 Nov 2005, 4:11 pm
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps he has been affected by the radiation?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dieselsweeties.com
http://www.hello-cthulhu.com
supervoc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to supervoc
Find More Posts by supervoc
Add supervoc to Your Contacts
#369 15 Nov 2005, 11:43 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:51 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry about the delay - watched the final episode on Friday - made notes and half wrote the review - was away Saturday, library closed on Sunday, and then it's internet connection was down for the last two days! Rest assured, Ambassadors will be completed tomorrow.
Having said all that, I'm might take a brief break post Inferno, simply because watching the episodes and tottering down to the library is mildly awkward and I feel I may be short changing both reviews and stories. I'm going to look into buying a computer in the New Year (investigating the sales), so if I do, I'll recommence then.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#370 17 Nov 2005, 1:02 pm
ianzpotter
Time Lord
Sheffield
Joined April 19, 2004
Last On: Yesterday 6:17 pm
Posts Here: 122
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We'll just look at some swirly paterns on our monitors and argue unconvincingly about them as if they were your review.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My book-
The Rise and Rise of the Independents - a television history
"Meticulously researched and a compelling read - whether you work in the media or not." - Victor Lewis-Smith.
My Unlikely Gig-
Presenting BBC Radio 7's Comedy Club 10 pm 'til Midnight, Monday to Friday, 23rd of June to the 10th of July.
Currently reading-
PROSCRIBED TITLE from PROSCRIBED PUBLISHER.
ianzpotter
View Public Profile
Send a private message to ianzpotter
Send email to ianzpotter
Visit ianzpotter's homepage!
Find More Posts by ianzpotter
Add ianzpotter to Your Contacts
#371 17 Nov 2005, 10:17 pm
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorney
Having said all that, I'm might take a brief break post Inferno, simply because watching the episodes and tottering down to the library is mildly awkward and I feel I may be short changing both reviews and stories. I'm going to look into buying a computer in the New Year (investigating the sales), so if I do, I'll recommence then.
Doing it at a library can't be fun. What a total pain in the neck.
PC World do the cheapest computers but their sales are variable in the discounts they offer. Its still the best choice in town though. You could try Currys and Dixons, who are part of the same group. They have almost as cheap or just as cheap systems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianzpotter
We'll just look at some swirly paterns on our monitors and argue unconvincingly about them as if they were your review.
Seems like a good idea.Wiil that be the War Games swirls or the Deadly Assassin swirl? Or some other swirl?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.dieselsweeties.com
http://www.hello-cthulhu.com
supervoc
View Public Profile
Send a private message to supervoc
Find More Posts by supervoc
Add supervoc to Your Contacts
#372 18 Nov 2005, 8:04 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:51 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Following on from my previous musings about the ignoring of Reegan, I think I'll start here with a little about his boss, Carrington, and a detail I feel gets ignored with him. He's usually described in summaries and reviews as being a fiercly moral man (his sudden catchphrase - 'moral duty' - backs this up).
It's not quite how I take it, though. Carrington is driven by a sense of righteousness, it's true, but his primary character trait seems, to me, to be that he's literally gone mad. The clue to this is in an early sequence, when he explains how the aliens killed his friend. The Doctor points out that they couldn't help this, and Carrington ignores him. Now I've seen this pointed out as a goof in the plotting before (the theory being that Carrington, clearly knowing that their touch is deadly, should realise that the initial death has to have been accidental). This, to my mind, misses the point. If it was simply an oversight of the scripting, it's somewhat odd that the Doctor voices the exact same oversight to Carrington's face, suggesting the writers are aware of the flaw in his reasoning. (How can the writers miss a plot point that they point out themselves?) The only reasonable way to take this is to see that Carrington isn't being rational. The Doctor points out a logical flaw in his reasoning, and Carrington ignores him. He can't grasp the point. Carrington is barking mad. Presumably the initial death of his colleague unnerved him and he's found himself stuck in the same mental position. His initial thought on meeting the aliens has become his only thought.
The Ambassadors...
OF DEATH
7
Of course, this is slightly symptomatic of a few problems in the script. Carrington in this episode behaves like a completely different person, and there's a lot of things that should have been emphasised before (gaining a catchphrase out of nowhere is a bit much, to be honest, and there really should have been a set up of the plot point that one of the previous astronauts was killed). It's fairly obvious that this is due to the last minute rewrites, which remain confused (Quinlan not being aware of the main plan and wanting to keep first contact to himself doesn't make any sense when you consider what he actually did). Up until now Carrington has been a sinister, machiavellian figure, but here he's turned into a raging nutcase.
Generally, however, the fact that the villains are, emphatically, human (and misguided rather than actually evil) gives the story a beautifully downbeat feel. With the Doctor and Liz under guard, the moment where the Brig is placed under arrest is rather fianl, and you do wonder how they're going to get out of it - simply because unlike being placed under arrest by Autons, he can't simply shoot the buggers without seeming a little callous. It's rather nice that after a story ending with the Brigadier betraying the Doctor, this story ends with him rather definitely saving the day. The Brig is now firmly marked down as one of the goodies, fighting for what's right, mainly on trust of the Doctor (even if the resulting fight sequence is another of those mildly odd ones that doesn't quite work - I can throw a better fake punch than there is here!). In deed, I'd go so far as to say that this is the Brig's best appearance yet.
A detail there does remind me of one thing I wanted to mention. One problem this story has, for me, is that it is rather brutal, and not in a nice way. In a lot of slightly crass action movies, I feel a lot of the time the makers aren't really that fussed about collateral damage. The one I most clearly remember is 'Sudden Death', a moderately entertaining dumb action movie. However it was a little too reckless with passers by getting shot accidentally. You see, I always think of the background characters being the equivalent of me. I feel that, in scripting terms, you have to be as careful about killing anyone as you would like any body else to be in terms of killing you (the writer is, after all, the god like figure defining who lives and who dies at all points). So I only tend to go with deaths where there is a good reason for it (the character 'asking for it' in some way, the plot neccessitating it, etc. - the contrast I can think of to 'Sudden Death' is 'Die Hard', where every body who is killed fulfills one of the good reasons above). And somehow, I find it more annoying when it's bit part characters - I think because at least when it's a main part character, we are expected to have had some emotional investment in them. There's something at stake. Killing random extras seems to have less emotional connection for us, and as a result is presenting the killing of innocents as part of the entertainment, rather than something to specifically shock us (unless I'm just getting reactionary in my old age). The long and the short of this somewhat overdetailed rant is that I felt this story has got a little too trigger happy. The sequence where the Ambassadors are taken out to kill a few more chaps (and one security guard who miraculously manages to be the one man who can survive their touch) seems utterly unneccessary (it's hardly the most convincing argument of their invasion) and whilst it does emphasise the grimness of the story, the madness of Carrington and the ruthlessness of Reegan it does grate a touch - especially considering the fact that both of them don't really pay for their actions. It's especially galling that on raiding the villains base, the Brigadier shoots the living c**p out of some random heavy, and then let's Reegan live. The story seems only to like death when it doesn't really matter (or it could just be that I'm bloodthirsty - sometimes you just need the villains dead to satisfy yourself... I'm happy enough that Carrington survives, but Reegan just seems too darn nasty to be left alive).
I should add that I don't want anyone to take this as a negative review, as I still absolutely adore this story. The fact that the plot hinges around someone who is basically misguided rather than actually evil gives the whole piece an air of realism and honesty that you rarely get in Who, with a genuinely, properly motivated bad guy, who actually behaves like a genuine human being and not a moustache twirling nut job. This alone would take it into classic territory, but the whole story works beautifully (albeit messily). The climax is as low key as you would expect, with a beautifully put together montage of cutting and music building up the tension (when on paper there is surprisingly little). The story is given a real dynamism and moral weight from this, concluding in brilliant style. Overall the confused scripting really can't detract from the intelligent characterisation and serious tone that turn this into a sci-fi thriller par excellence, worthy of the Quatermass comparisons. Proof that Doctor Who can do hard core gritty sci-fi seriously and well. A much neglected classic, definitely.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#373 18 Nov 2005, 8:42 pm
The Secretive Bus
Time Lord
Edinburgh
Joined April 18, 2004
Last On: 27 Jun 2009 7:02 pm
Posts Here: 803
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I generally don't like random violence in m' entertainment but I have to be honest and say that here it didn't matter for me in the same way that I find the random deaths in, say, "Resurrection of the Daleks" a bit boring. I think it's precisely because it's some extras getting killed off - reaffirming the strength of the aliens - whereas in a Saward story you can see the writer thinking "Whoops, x y and z are still alive, haven't got anything left to do with them, better kill them off." Characters seem to accomplish nothing and are there simply to get killed. In "Ambassadors", every character's death means something and the writers aren't just killing them off because they're bored - necessitating the use of extras, who obviously don't play much of a part in the story and so are "expendable", no matter how bloodthirsty that may sound.
At the end of the day, you could also argue that a story called "The Ambassadors of Death" really should have a few Ambassador related deaths in there to avoid false advertising charges.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ben grins out of the cockpit window:
“I am only borrowing this. I’m Ben Chatham” before expertly taking off into the clouds.
- "Face of Death" by Sparacus
"They laughed at Gallileo once."
- Sparacus
The Secretive Bus
View Public Profile
Send a private message to The Secretive Bus
Send email to The Secretive Bus
Find More Posts by The Secretive Bus
Add The Secretive Bus to Your Contacts
#374 30 Nov 2005, 12:48 pm
Dorney
Time Lord
Bromley, Kent
Joined April 22, 2004
Last On: Today 9:51 pm
Posts Here: 4,640
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I've managed to blag myself a computer. Still no real internet access, but I think I should be able to at least write the reviews at home, straight after watching the episode, and then take them down to the library. Woo - as they say - hoo.
Bus, with regards to the violence discussion above, it just felt a little to me like it was violence for the sack of violence - it didn't really add much to the story for me. By this final episode, we didn't really need them to go off on another tacked on raid to get that they're deadly. Of course, each to their own. And it's still brilliant, so I don't mind.
Dorney
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Dorney
Send email to Dorney
Find More Posts by Dorney
Add Dorney to Your Contacts
#375 2 Dec 2005, 10:44 pm
supervoc
Time Lord
Merrie England
Joined November 25, 2004
Last On: 14 Nov 2008 9:39 pm
Posts Here: 242
Re: Day by Day
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good news on the computer front
Regarding the ambassadors violence I expect one justification would be that it solidified the threat in the eyes of children and thick people who would not fully comprehend verbal cues. Which seems a reasonable justification to me.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
No comments:
Post a Comment